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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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1 hour ago, Savannah Miller said:

They have an HLG lut included so you can view in the monitor/bake it in.  I'm not sure exactly how it works but it's not a true HLG like a dedicated color science.

Sony color guru Alistair Chapman offers a series of free HLG luts for download, specifically designed for selected (10-bit) Sony cameras to convert Slog2 or Slog3 for either monitoring or grading purposes. He describes HLG as "instant HDR".

I don't claim to be the expert on HDR, but I've read quite a lot on the subject. If you exposed to the center (as opposed to ETTR) with LOG (BM calls it's LOG "FILM"), a lut could be applied to make that recording fully compatible HLG-HDR without any need for grading. The acquisition codec can be anything, 8-bit as well. And because HLG is technically "709 plus", there'd be no special color science needed. BM calls it's 709 "VIDEO". That would just be "VIDEO plus".

But Chapman points out that for anyone who has as well the time and the equipment to monitor and grade HDR, a HLG recording meant lesser control over the grading. It's comparable to VIDEO, which is "instant SDR".

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
1 hour ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

I'm guessing this is going to be a big seller considering there are already 101 pages of discussion on EOSHD...

As long as it is 85% of what we think it will be.

I haven't preordered because... Blackmagic.  I am being disciplined and waiting for them to sort out manufacturing issues, QC, and firmware updates.  I probably won't pick up this camera until 2019.  It will be great if they have a bunch of cameras on hand that work as advertised on day one but this isn't Canon.

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16 hours ago, Savannah Miller said:

Are you sure?  The ursa mini 4.6K sensor (at least the one on the Fairchild website) claims it can run at 240fps full sensor readout.  Then why does Blackmagic only run it at 15ms?  Also, the pocket camera was 17ms and they improved it to around 13 with the micro.

There is processing going on as well. If that is done on the fly then it will bottleneck the data stream resulting in being spread out over the entire frame rather than coming all at once. Improvements you see in RS for a particular sensor come from reducing that processing overhead, either through using faster processors or by rewriting the code to make it more efficient.

The overall time you require for any particular pixel is acquisition time (your "exposure" time) + read time + processing time. Processing time is the variable here that will affect the RS you get out of any particular system. In a high frame rate capable sensor we know that the read time has to be pretty minimal, but the processing time will bottleneck the other activities going on with the sensor and limit the rate at which you can use the data coming off it. 

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My only concern about this camera is it's form factor. It's not always a good idea to differentiate a product from the competition in such a way. How will this stretched in length body behave on a gimbal for example? My GH5 is already reaching my a2000's limit when balancing the roll axis and it sits 2-3 mm from the tilt motor. This camera may never get properly balanced on many low budget gimbals like Crane, A2000 and Moza, although we don't know it's weight and center of gravity yet to conclude this.

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9 minutes ago, Dimitris Stasinos said:

My only concern about this camera is it's form factor. It's not always a good idea to differentiate a product from the competition in such a way. How will this stretched in length body behave on a gimbal for example? My GH5 is already reaching my a2000's limit when balancing the roll axis and it sits 2-3 mm from the tilt motor. This camera may never get properly balanced on many low budget gimbals like Crane, A2000 and Moza, although we don't know it's weight and center of gravity yet to conclude this.

Maybe you can use it with a counterweight to help balancing, if your gimbal can handle the weight of the camera+counterweight.

Moment, which makes lenses for smartphones, sell a counterweight with this purpose: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/11/21/16686030/moment-lens-dji-osmi-gimbal-official-counterweight-iphone-8-plus

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2 hours ago, Damphousse said:

As long as it is 85% of what we think it will be.

I haven't preordered because... Blackmagic.  I am being disciplined and waiting for them to sort out manufacturing issues, QC, and firmware updates.  I probably won't pick up this camera until 2019.  It will be great if they have a bunch of cameras on hand that work as advertised on day one but this isn't Canon.

The reassuring thing about the Pocket 4K is that BM are already taking it around to most of the Pro Sales and Rental houses here in Australia and letting people (rental managers, sales people, and industry professionals) play with it. We are still four months away from its scheduled release and the camera is doing the rounds. While they do state that it's a 'preproduction model' so not allowing anyone record footage with it, in terms of issues, these should be greatly minimised as they are getting feedback a long time before release.

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HLG as I understand it is a standard curve applied to footage for final display on a HDR / HLG complient TV.

I imagine that this is a bit like using REC709 to monitor.  You most likely only want to monitor your image using this curve rather than bake it in.  Otherwise it’s like shooting VIDEO instead of FILM.  

The Pocket 2 does feature the new version of VIDEO, EXTENDED VIDEO.  This is an awesome new curve that I’ve been using a lot in other scenarios.  This is doing what we all wish VIDEO should have done in the first place.  Make a nice looking picture that doens’t require too much post to tweak into something nice.

If you wanted to hit the HLG, I’m sure you could easily do a LUT that would do this as well if EXTENDED VIDEO doesn’t push your buttons.

JB

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Does anyone know anything about how directional the audio will be?  The mics are on the front after all..

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If I could ditch my Rode VMP+ that would be another layer of icing on top of the rest of this camera-cake.

9 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

I'm guessing this is going to be a big seller considering there are already 101 pages of discussion on EOSHD...

The XC10 thread was similar.. pages = emotions = things to talk about.   If you're familiar with the news media then you'll know that millions of column inches are devoted to BS every day around the world!

5 hours ago, Mokara said:

There is processing going on as well. If that is done on the fly then it will bottleneck the data stream resulting in being spread out over the entire frame rather than coming all at once. Improvements you see in RS for a particular sensor come from reducing that processing overhead, either through using faster processors or by rewriting the code to make it more efficient.

The overall time you require for any particular pixel is acquisition time (your "exposure" time) + read time + processing time. Processing time is the variable here that will affect the RS you get out of any particular system. In a high frame rate capable sensor we know that the read time has to be pretty minimal, but the processing time will bottleneck the other activities going on with the sensor and limit the rate at which you can use the data coming off it. 

You could insert a small buffer chip (enough to contain a full sensor readout worth of data) and then you could read from the sensor to the buffer chip quickly and then the processing could happen at a slower rate by reading out of the other side of the chip.  These chips have two interfaces - one to write and one to read - and they can run at vastly different speeds.

Of course, more chips = more cost = more power consumption etc..

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3 hours ago, kye said:

Does anyone know anything about how directional the audio will be?  The mics are on the front after all.

I swear there is something about those mics. It almost seems like they are hiding some secret sauce. 🤔

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All I was saying is Extended video is more advanced than just a simple lut because it's heavily dependent on ISO, Color temperature, etc. whether or not you get the correct color results.  From that notion, a simple HLG lut like the one included in the camera's firmware at NAB would work, but it's not as perfect of a solution.

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44 minutes ago, sanveer said:

I swear there is something about those mics. It almost seems like they are hiding some secret sauce. 🤔

I hope so!!  

They look quite large to me - considering that a condenser microphone is a very small object.  I'm having evil thoughts about them having multiple capsules in there with parabolic reflectors and wired in a way that makes the output more directional.  

I'm probably completely wrong, but this thread is about taking very little evidence and running wild with it, right?

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39 minutes ago, kye said:

I hope so!!  

They look quite large to me - considering that a condenser microphone is a very small object.  I'm having evil thoughts about them having multiple capsules in there with parabolic reflectors and wired in a way that makes the output more directional.  

I'm probably completely wrong, but this thread is about taking very little evidence and running wild with it, right?

From the demo footage that was leaked, the audio did sound very good.

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2 hours ago, kye said:

I hope so!!  

They look quite large to me - considering that a condenser microphone is a very small object.  I'm having evil thoughts about them having multiple capsules in there with parabolic reflectors and wired in a way that makes the output more directional.  

I'm probably completely wrong, but this thread is about taking very little evidence and running wild with it, right?

The Pocket 4k does have four microphones apparently. 

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3 hours ago, Savannah Miller said:

From the demo footage that was leaked, the audio did sound very good.

Just listened to it..  I'm assuming it was the 12fps clip?

Audio sounded good, but there was nothing in front of the camera making noise so not way to judge isolation / directionality :(

1 hour ago, Tone1k said:

The Pocket 4k does have four microphones apparently. 

Hmm..  unless they're recording 4 channels of audio it is possibly to control pickup pattern.  Promising!

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1 hour ago, kye said:

Just listened to it..  I'm assuming it was the 12fps clip?

Audio sounded good, but there was nothing in front of the camera making noise so not way to judge isolation / directionality :(

Hmm..  unless they're recording 4 channels of audio it is possibly to control pickup pattern.  Promising!

Built in mic is stereo so just two tracks. 

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