Jump to content
Andrew Reid

Sony A7R III review - the BBC fixed Sony's colour!

Recommended Posts

So I can update EOSHD Pro Color for Sony's latest colour science tweaks yours truly bought the new A7R III from Berlin's one and only Sony Store this week. Yes, 3500 euros seems to be Sony's new standard price and yes I am finally broke... but the improvements over the old model turn out to be quite special - especially the new Hybrid LOG Gamma picture profiles.

Read the full article

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

How well works 8bit HDR HLG profile with only 216 gradient steps? Does it work with HDR TV? Does it have banding issues?

If it works well GH5 should have 8bit HLG 4k 60P. GH5 already works with 8bit HLG 4k 30P.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Andrew Reidexcellent review thanks. 

Great to see the AF is that good and those HLG colors are an excellent surprise. 
I think the combo of A7RIII and A7SIII is going to be the best combo ever.

You know I am like you, hybrid photo video and always wanted one camera body for that. But I realized it is not gonna happen soon. You have to make compromise somewhere. Also I realized that only 1 camera on the field is not the most convenient: 
Sometimes I am setting up the stills camera for a 1 hour timelapse, nice to be able to shoot video during this time with the other camera, and so on. 

A7RIII + A7SIII is going to allow me to share lenses / batteries /..., have one of the best still quality for landscape ever, small bodies and lighter than GH5 yet Full frame with IBIS, great video AF, great video features and a S35 mode if reach is needed. 
Hard to beat that... Just have to see Canikon mirrorless offering in FF this year but I am pretty sure it wont be as well specced, and it's gonna need 2 years to have decent lens system. 

After selling the A7RII because of ergonomics nightmare and no pleasure to shoot with, and not buying A7SII because of those same reasons and no good video AF, I think I am sold again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

At 8-bit for video, yes.

A7SIII should be 10bit. Anyway, 10 bit is nice but not more important for me than things like good video AF or IBIS. I have found 8 bit easily gradable and people have posted master piece 8 bit cinematic videos where you would not tell the difference with 10bit. It does not really change how people see your content. IBIS and AF does. A shaky video is trash, focus hunting is trash. 

 

@Andrew Reid I found the HLG different profile significations: 
 

HLG: Gamma curve for HDR recording. Equivalent to the HDR standard Hybrid Log-Gamma, ITU-R BT.2100.

HLG1: Gamma curve for HDR recording. Emphasizes noise reduction. However, shooting is restricted to a narrower dynamic range than with [HLG2] or [HLG3].

HLG2: Gamma curve for HDR recording. Provides a balance of dynamic range and noise reduction.

HLG3: Gamma curve for HDR recording. Wider dynamic range than [HLG2]. However, noise may increase.

[HLG1], [HLG2], and [HLG3] all apply a gamma curve with the same characteristics, but each offers a different balance between dynamic range and noise reduction. Each has a different maximum video output level, as follows: [HLG1]: approx. 87%, [HLG2]: approx. 95%, [HLG3]: approx. 100%.

AS seen here http://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/1710/v1/en/contents/TP0001211745.html

@Andrew Reid which one did you like?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, wolf33d said:

No. A7SIII should be 10bit.

 

Really? Who says so? Rumors spread on web?

In any case, a combo should somehow mean a sort of match no? I'd rather tend to call a welcome update to the latest one instead... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@wolf33d generally speaking the Sony FF system is way heavier than mft because the lenses are crazy heavy.  Panasonic 35-100mm is half the weight of sony 70-200.  You can put gh5+35-100mm on single handed gimbal.  Try doing that with the a7+70-200!!! No single handed gimbal can balance that usefully.

I am waiting for a7siii though, really want that sweet af-c :) trying to score a helix let us so I can use the 70-200 as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, wolf33d said:

Anyway, 10 bit is nice but not more important for me than things like good video AF or IBIS. (...) A shaky video is trash, focus hunting is trash.

So does banding for sure, so go external recording 'cause beyond 10-bit only solid high bitrate can end to help : )

Turn off AF continuous or/and use editing in order to prevent such hunting.

Use tripod and slider old school or then IBIS, a gimbal or yet any other software (there is also hardware*) workaround to fix any shaky hands :-)

*

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok the color is better but i still don't like the sony image! Always looks fake, like a videocam image looks fake, I know it's 4K image etc but all sony cameras have this fake look about them? Don't know why other PPL don't see it? ps I used some of the best sony cameras almost every day for 2 years. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Really? Who says so? Rumors spread on web?

In any case, a combo should somehow mean a sort of match no? I'd rather tend to call a welcome update to the latest one instead... 

Really? Who said it won't? Your imagination? Truth is you do not know more than I do on this one. 

But logical people like Andrew in this article, think that it is the logical step after A7SII considering the GH5 competition. 

2 hours ago, scotchtape said:

@wolf33d generally speaking the Sony FF system is way heavier than mft because the lenses are crazy heavy.  Panasonic 35-100mm is half the weight of sony 70-200.  You can put gh5+35-100mm on single handed gimbal.  Try doing that with the a7+70-200!!! No single handed gimbal can balance that usefully.

I am waiting for a7siii though, really want that sweet af-c :) trying to score a helix let us so I can use the 70-200 as well.

That's true, most Sony lenses will be heavier and the combo lens + body too. But honestly I have never used a 200mm on a gimbal and will never do. I have used extensively the A7RII on gimbal with no issue regarding weight. 

5 minutes ago, Henry Gentles said:

ok the color is better but i still don't like the sony image! Always looks fake, like a videocam image looks fake, I know it's 4K image etc but all sony cameras have this fake look about them? Don't know why other PPL don't see it? ps I used some of the best sony cameras almost every day for 2 years. 

I do not agree. I have posted, and many other before and after me, Sony videos that do not look fake at all. 
Attached is a screenshot of one of my video. Does not look like videocam fake to me. Plus Andrew says vast improvement in colors with mark III. 

Screen Shot 2018-01-13 at 14.10.06.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

reverently

1 hour ago, wolf33d said:

Really? Who said it won't? Your imagination? Truth is you do not know more than I do on this one. 

But logical people like Andrew in this article, think that it is the logical step after A7SII considering the GH5 competition. 

Man, chill out. You tend to freak out when people contradict your posts : ) Did I say it won't? I hinted that I don't believe it. A bit different. In a reverently distinct tone, someone else is already logical, why pal? Because me and you, we are his hosts or for a sort of colloquial paternalism upside down your posts along this thread express instead?! Funny you fail to offer the same behavior towards the camera maker when you don't appreciate the announcement... LOL ; ) Reminds me the Mavic drone you ended to fly : D BTW and following you now... Does Andrew know more than me or you? C'mon... wishful list is a wishful list :-D

Actually, I wrote that would be a "welcome update to the latest one instead" so quite the opposite what you're inferring from my words. I am always used to read your B&W posts whenever any launch is made, before the product reaches the shelves. Your run-n-gun love dictates much more FUD than useful solutions. Problems don't pay the bills, learning harder the craft does ; ) There's no free soup ; )) No AF upgrade can save us when not! hehe

Sorry mate but you're invariably too much stubborn on your (techie) criticism when anything gives you absence of total control about ;-) That's what it is, that's what I see in your usual 'but'(s) : ) Time to also share some doubts on the choices of your own, because your intended certainty you seem to look for applies enough predictability there as well :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What a brilliant find, nice one @Andrew Reid. Especially given that I'm guessing the EOSHD Colour thing is a big earner for you, you could have kept this quiet. I'm guessing the specific colour mode that is in there BT.2020 is a broadcast specific colour mode specifically for BBC?  The footage you shot looks really beautiful, would be curious to see it at night and during the day, that is if Berlin feels like having a sunny day anytime soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Gregormannschaft said:

@Andrew ReidThe footage you shot looks really beautiful, would be curious to see it at night and during the day, that is if Berlin feels like having a sunny day anytime soon.

Hey Gregor, tomorrow it´s gonna be beautiful in Berlin. So Andrew should grab a shot or two, don´t you think?:) We would love to see some classic footage from the fleamarket crowd and all the chills and thrills in beautiful sun and sunset, hmm, sunrise too, it´s gonna be a long day of beautiful footage!!!:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Henry Gentles said:

ok the color is better but i still don't like the sony image! Always looks fake, like a videocam image looks fake, I know it's 4K image etc but all sony cameras have this fake look about them? Don't know why other PPL don't see it? ps I used some of the best sony cameras almost every day for 2 years. 

On every post I read about a camera (not just Sony!), here or on other sites, there is a comment like this. I'm just not sure what you mean. Can you post a link to a digital video image that doesn't look fake to you and elaborate on what looks "fake" to you in this video? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Gregormannschaft said:

What a brilliant find, nice one @Andrew Reid. Especially given that I'm guessing the EOSHD Colour thing is a big earner for you, you could have kept this quiet. I'm guessing the specific colour mode that is in there BT.2020 is a broadcast specific colour mode specifically for BBC?  The footage you shot looks really beautiful, would be curious to see it at night and during the day, that is if Berlin feels like having a sunny day anytime soon.

It doesn’t change the situation with Pro Color because the A7R III doesn’t let you select BT.2020 with a standard gamma curve, only LOG (HLG) mode... So you can’t use it for straight out of camera colour (which is what EOSHD Pro Color is for). You need to add a LUT.

In the article I say BT.2020 is developed jointly by BBC and NHK. It’s not a Sony standard but a HDR broadcast standard. Canon use it as well.

S-Gammut is the Sony equivilent wide colour space. And that needs tweaking to work well and / or expert grading.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Emanuel said:

reverently

Man, chill out. You tend to freak out when people contradict your posts : ) Did I say it won't? I hinted that I don't believe it. A bit different. In a reverently distinct tone, someone else is already logical, why pal? Because me and you, we are his hosts or for a sort of colloquial paternalism upside down your posts along this thread express instead?! Funny you fail to offer the same behavior towards the camera maker when you don't appreciate the announcement... LOL ; ) Reminds me the Mavic drone you ended to fly : D BTW and following you now... Does Andrew know more than me or you? C'mon... wishful list is a wishful list :-D

Actually, I wrote that would be a "welcome update to the latest one instead" so quite the opposite what you're inferring from my words. I am always used to read your B&W posts whenever any launch is made, before the product reaches the shelves. Your run-n-gun love dictates much more FUD than useful solutions. Problems don't pay the bills, learning harder the craft does ; ) There's no free soup ; )) No AF upgrade can save us when not! hehe

Sorry mate but you're invariably too much stubborn on your (techie) criticism when anything gives you absence of total control about ;-) That's what it is, that's what I see in your usual 'but'(s) : ) Time to also share some doubts on the choices of your own, because your intended certainty you seem to look for applies enough predictability there as well :-)

 Thanks for trying to analyze my personal behavior on the forum lol... I am not sure I could make sense of your post though. 
In a more basic way, it sounds to me that you were the one who came and argue with all of that. I was juste positively commenting that the A7SIII and RIII should be a great combo to which you answered "in 8 bit" which triggered the rest. Anyway, peace :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×