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Panasonic GH5 - all is revealed!


Andrew Reid
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@funkyou86

Nice explanation...But facts and knowledge don't count any more. Feeding the naive people's phantasy with claims like "the GH5 is the ARRI for enthusiasts" is much better and you get more likes. Irrational fanboyism seems to be the new religion...

The famous German philosopher Hannah Arendt said once:

Quote

You cant't convince the masses with facts - not even with fictitious facts. The  effectiveness of propaganda reveals a characteristic feature of modern masses: they don't believe in evidence, not even in the reality of own experiences - they don't trust their own eyes and ears but only their phantasy.

Panas marketing and social media guys did with the GH5 hype an excellent job and acquired hundreds of sales representatives - aka "independent enthusiasts / reviewers" - (mostly) for free. This reminds me of the paid Canon video posting in DPReview some weeks ago, a guy who claimed to sell his RED for a Canon 80D...Of course... :-))))

Conclusion: Feed people's phantasy and they will give you their money and their soul! (+1 for Panas marketing devision - Guys you did an excellent job!)

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Maybe it's fan-tasy, but it's not fantasy. It's just different perspectives. Alternative facts, you could say. *chuckles* If you look at this camera as a unit for a production, it's just well suited. The approach and manner in the way it can be used. That it is exactly an ARRI, with same features and quality, just smaller and cheaper... that is not the case. But it can approach parts of that better than other cameras can at the same (price) level.

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2 hours ago, Arikhan said:

@funkyou86

Nice explanation...But facts and knowledge don't count any more. Feeding the naive people's phantasy with claims like "the GH5 is the ARRI for enthusiasts" is much better and you get more likes. Irrational fanboyism seems to be the new religion...

The famous German philosopher Hannah Arendt said once:

Panas marketing and social media guys did with the GH5 hype an excellent job and acquired hundreds of sales representatives - aka "independent enthusiasts / reviewers" - (mostly) for free. This reminds me of the paid Canon video posting in DPReview some weeks ago, a guy who claimed to sell his RED for a Canon 80D...Of course... :-))))

Conclusion: Feed people's phantasy and they will give you their money and their soul! (+1 for Panas marketing devision - Guys you did an excellent job!)

I am really not a big fan of Pannys marketing department. The "reviewers" were useless, exept @Neumann Films, Luke did a great job. The hype was too big, check the topics and articles before the official announcement. The expectation were high, everybody wanted everything, for nothing.

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1 hour ago, funkyou86 said:

I am really not a big fan of Pannys marketing department. The "reviewers" were useless, exept @Neumann Films, Luke did a great job. The hype was too big, check the topics and articles before the official announcement. The expectation were high, everybody wanted everything, for nothing.

Thanks, although a 2-3 minute promotional video was the only line item on the contract.  The only thing they paid us for was the "Beyond the Grid" video.  

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4 hours ago, Arikhan said:

Conclusion: Feed people's phantasy and they will give you their money and their soul! (+1 for Panas marketing devision - Guys you did an excellent job!)

Until Edward Bernays effectively created 'Public Relations' based on concepts from his uncle, Sigmund Freud, marketing was based on people's actual needs. Bernays changed everything and marketing evolved into emotion and fantasy-illusion based and thus the world has been changed. Now marketing is based on emotion and desire, and not actual need for daily living or survival.

The Universe Loves Drama, so combined with the emotional-fantasy-based social reality we now live in, explains the current behavior of social interaction, especially in social media. It's enough of a challenge for logical thinkers to effectively communicate with emotional thinkers (and neither side being able to communicate with the other). It becomes a deeper communication challenge with the added fantasy layer, which affects everyone at some level (including me: for example I too used to believe in the 'Full Frame' look until I studied the math and performed my own tests). What we really 'know' changes with time and it's important to remember that.

Another interesting social element is that most of the people discussing cameras, and all gear for that matter, spend far less time creating with the tools than focusing on the tools themselves. The tools become a form of entertainment in and of themselves: playing with them, doing 'tests', debating online, discussing deficiencies in the current model(s) and yearning for the new model(s), buying and selling, etc. And for perhaps the vast majority, not actually creating any content other than writing, discussing, and debating the tools in social media. This is not a judgement, rather an observation of another form of creating and fellowship of like-minded enthusiasts: people who focus on the tools themselves for entertainment vs. using the tools to create content, for entertainment or for a living. Every now and then someone will post, "get out and shoot people!", but that's not why most of the people are on these forums.

The GH5 of course is a major improvement and is an excellent content-creation tool. Is it a baby ARRI? Who knows, let's see some side-by-side tests as were done with Canon 5D3 RAW, which with 14-bit Canon color is indeed like a baby Alexa as shown by various tests done over the years.

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2 hours ago, Fritz Pierre said:

More GH5 revealed!

 

 

 

She should have gone the broadsword way to compete with RED's gladius :D . I'd say nice video and It shows the budget difference between shooting with a RED and a GH5. Even to the point of choosing a similar music to Reznor's style. I'd say between 65-75% there, good enough for me.

 

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@jcs

Full ACK. That's why this kind of "backdoor marketing" is in my eyes much more interesting at this point as the assumptions and postfactic claims done to this point on the GH5.

Another very interesting aspect is that this kind of reactions are predictable. The same process (hate from fanboys against criticism and other opinions and points of view) with a Pana camera was a review of Shaun Hurlbut and the GH4. Taking a look at this camera, Hurlbut - as a experienced, successful and well known filmmaker - said (really worth to read, because 3 years later Hurlbut was proven right):
 

Quote

 

The 5D looked cinematic right out of the box, you had to do nothing, you did not need to shoot with boosters, you did not have to shoot in this Natural or that Cinema V you just turned it on and even in its worst possible picture style settings it would trounce the GH4,

[...]

I pushed the camera to the place where other much older DSLR’s will still kick its ass, that is all I did. The proof is in the pudding. This camera fails in every way except shooting BARK on trees.

[...]

you could shoot the 5D in its worst mode and it would still kick the shit out of this GH4.

 

..etc. @andy lee comments on these facts too and advocates the GH4 trying to explain Hurlbut "cinematic look"...:-))

It's interesting how the crowd of pistoleros tries to bash and scream a reputable filmmaker (Shaun) down, because expressing a opinion from professional point of view and not based on unexperienced fantasies of sub 2.000$ mirrorless shooters...

Simply try to read some comments and always consider: Who is Hurlbut and who are the self proclaimed GH4 lawyers? Mostly people who never could afford a Cx00 or any other more expensive pro camera in their hands...This posting is a good lession in "credibility" and worthless opinions...

I tend to trust a reputable pro filmmaker (Hurlbut) by far more than self proclaimed "experts" -.even if they scream very loud on internet. 

 

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I was crazy about getting this camera as it was revealed, but as time goes, and theres more and more videos with it, theres something really off on the image. I cant really tell what it is, but everything looks strange for me and just not appealing for some reason...I guess ill keep waiting and see how it gets from now on, but Im definetly not getting one any time soon.

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2 minutes ago, ricardo_sousa11 said:

I was crazy about getting this camera as it was revealed, but as time goes, and theres more and more videos with it, theres something really off on the image. I cant really tell what it is, but everything looks strange for me and just not appealing for some reason...I guess ill keep waiting and see how it gets from now on, but Im definetly not getting one any time soon.

I can't get mine till at least August otherwise I'd already have one...but then I saw enough for what I need early on...and a lot of videos regarding other features don't affect my decision one way or another...I will say though, that it takes me a while to "learn" about a camera...and I don't judge anything seriously from somebody posting something from a camera they've had for only a few days...with incomplete FW...all I need to see initially is the potential for my needs...as I come from a production design background, an important aspect of an  image one  admires, produced by an Alexa or a Red  or a Sony F35, is that every aspect of that image has been designed  to produce that lovely look...nothing has been left to chance...I simply can't dismiss this camera for myself, based on what I've seen online...of course all our needs are different

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39 minutes ago, Arikhan said:

@jcs

 marketing" is in my eyes much more interesting at this point as the assumptions and postfactic claims done to this point on the GH5.

Another very interesting aspect is that this kind of reactions are predictable. The same process (hate from fanboys against criticism and other opinions and points of view) with a Pana camera was a review of Shaun Hurlbut and the GH4. Taking a look at this camera, Hurlbut - as a experienced, successful and well known filmmaker - said (really worth to read, because 3 years later Hurlbut was proven right):

..etc. @andy lee comments on these facts too and advocates the GH4 trying to explain Hurlbut "cinematic look"...:-))

It's interesting how the crowd of pistoleros tries to bash and scream a reputable filmmaker (Shaun) down, because expressing a opinion from professional point of view and not based on unexperienced fantasies of sub 2.000$ mirrorless shooters...

Simply try to read some comments and always consider: Who is Hurlbut and who are the self proclaimed GH4 lawyers? Mostly people who never could afford a Cx00 or any other more expensive pro camera in their hands...This posting is a good lession in "credibility" and worthless opinions...

I tend to trust a reputable pro filmmaker (Hurlbut) by far more than self proclaimed "experts" -.even if they scream very loud on internet.


What's your point?

I see people excited about great value for money and a great niche tool that fits their needs and workflow, with both its limitations and advantages when it comes to other competing cameras.

Frankly, I don't care what some fiction cinematographer says about mirrorless -- if I was shooting narrative features, of course I wouldn't be using GH4/5/whatever. Neither I would use 5D..

Hurlbut sounded biased from the get go too with all this "out of the box" nonsense, which is a typical consumer attitude (5D doesn't have Magic Lantern "out of the box" either). Besides, as far as I recall Hurlbut did another test of VLOG where he sounded much more positive.

 

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1 hour ago, Arikhan said:

@jcs

Full ACK. That's why this kind of "backdoor marketing" is in my eyes much more interesting at this point as the assumptions and postfactic claims done to this point on the GH5.

Another very interesting aspect is that this kind of reactions are predictable. The same process (hate from fanboys against criticism and other opinions and points of view) with a Pana camera was a review of Shaun Hurlbut and the GH4. Taking a look at this camera, Hurlbut - as a experienced, successful and well known filmmaker - said (really worth to read, because 3 years later Hurlbut was proven right):
 

..etc. @andy lee comments on these facts too and advocates the GH4 trying to explain Hurlbut "cinematic look"...:-))

It's interesting how the crowd of pistoleros tries to bash and scream a reputable filmmaker (Shaun) down, because expressing a opinion from professional point of view and not based on unexperienced fantasies of sub 2.000$ mirrorless shooters...

Simply try to read some comments and always consider: Who is Hurlbut and who are the self proclaimed GH4 lawyers? Mostly people who never could afford a Cx00 or any other more expensive pro camera in their hands...This posting is a good lession in "credibility" and worthless opinions...

I tend to trust a reputable pro filmmaker (Hurlbut) by far more than self proclaimed "experts" -.even if they scream very loud on internet. 

 

Well, first of all, it's Shane Hurlbut, not Shaun. Second of all... he also mentioned that you should 'shoot with the camera and determine for yourself if it fits into your workflow', as we find ourselves in an 'exciting age and place in digital capture, where every camera that is developed does have a place in the industry'. After all, we all have different wants and needs, there's no absolute right or wrong. It all depends on the person you ask and the project it is for. Admittedly he regarding the GH4 he mentions 'what came out of the box did not live up to my expectations'. Yet, a year or so later he goes out on a quest to find the best lenses to match the GH4 in a three part elaborate series and finds the Voigtländer 25mm f/0.95 on which he comments 'F2.5 on this 25mm is amazing. This looks stunning. If I were to do a movie with this camera, I would be shooting on this glass'. Which is a much fairer approach... problem solving, rather than just giving up after one try. Plus, of course you're going to like RAW out of a BMPCC or perhaps 5DmkIII better (I wish there was a GH5 that did ProRes/DNG RAW, even if 1080p only too). But you gotta realize what that entails (size, features, workflow) and what the camera is and isn't.

Anyways. We're all grown ups with a certain level of common sense. I bet we can all figure out what would work for ourselves. Again, there's no absolute right or wrong, there's something that works for you that doesn't really work for others and the other way around. Such is life.

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1 hour ago, Arikhan said:

@jcs

Simply try to read some comments and always consider: Who is Hurlbut...

A guy sponsored by Canon, and probably the only professional cinematographer who would choose to shoot with the C500 as an A cam over the Alexa on a Hollywood production. No relation between these two facts, of course...

His claim that the 5D will always trounce the GH4 no matter the setting was and still is completely ridiculous. I believe that he was genuine in his dislike of the GH4 footage, but his stance there is super subjective, to put it lightly. 

For the record, he came around on the GH4 when V-Log L was released and said it created very nice skin tones in 10 bit. 

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1 hour ago, Fritz Pierre said:

 

Probably because the only light was his work light and the arc from the welder?...really bothered by the blown out highlights though!!!:glasses::glasses: (sorry...could not resist!)

Those Sam Kolder transitions, though. Everybody is doing 'em now these days, all them zooms and twirls. I mean, maybe it can be done tastefully, but this was just tacky as hell, no? Everytime a Casey Neistat rises, we get hordes of copycats that just do the same for the sake of being hip... but with poor execution.

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What made the 5D3 (h.264 and RAW) so useful, and all Canons, especially the C series for paid work, is the ease at getting good skintones regardless of lighting. The GH4 can create nice skintones (and so can the A7SII for example), however in general, it's a lot more work (we have all these cameras). The reason ARRI is so loved for paid work is the same reason: great skintones (and highlights) with the least amount of effort (and more forgiving if for example exposed wrong, which happens to everyone).

I just tried grading some GH5 footage in log: 

What's impressive is I was able to quickly get decent skintones using ARRI LUTs. For that brief test I also noted some 'edginess' with green and magenta, which is a common problem with cameras (and much less of a problem with Canon and ARRI). This means that if I correct for the face to look good, some other part of the scene goes too magenta or too green. This is also a problem with multiple faces in a shot- I noticed this issue in RED Dragon/Weapon shots with otherwise excellent skintones in the Netflix series Into the Badlands. A group shot had some faces looking correct, and some looking too magenta and others too green.

From my brief GH5 grade, it looks like a nice improvement in color science up from the GH4. All of the clips were in natural light, which is basically a black body source (as is tungsten, etc.), which is a continuous spectrum light and the easiest/best for skintones. Indoor mixed lighting, as well as 'global illumination' reflectance from the environment (colored bounce sources in the scene) separate the best cameras from the rest of the pack. This is where Canon and ARRI still have the lead (Red, BM, Sony, Fuji, and Panasonic are catching up). A good way to really know how the cameras perform is to shoot with multiple cameras at once, as Zacuto has done in the past. Ideally the grading should be done be the same person or 'eye', otherwise as with the Zacuto shootouts personal tastes/experience level adds an unhelpful bias.

The fairest test would be to set all the cameras to the correct WB, set them all to the same Log or Rec709, expose them correctly, then compare the results. One shouldn't need some sort of 'magic' camera settings for each camera to produce a good look. Again, Canon and ARRI skintones can look great with little or no tweaking if desired. That's the true test of a camera- how many people can get great skintones, which means default settings that just work and are forgiving of exposure variance (meaning colors don't change with exposure very much, another common issue that makes grading a challenge or time consuming).

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53 minutes ago, Cinegain said:

Those Sam Kolder transitions, though. Everybody is doing 'em now these days, all them zooms and twirls. I mean, maybe it can be done tastefully, but this was just tacky as hell, no? Everytime a Casey Neistat rises, we get hordes of copycats that just do the same for the sake of being hip... but with poor execution.

The filmmaker did kick the arse out of them. 

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1 hour ago, zetty said:


What's your point?

I see people excited about great value for money and a great niche tool that fits their needs and workflow, with both its limitations and advantages when it comes to other competing cameras.

Frankly, I don't care what some fiction cinematographer says about mirrorless -- if I was shooting narrative features, of course I wouldn't be using GH4/5/whatever. Neither I would use 5D..

Hurlbut sounded biased from the get go too with all this "out of the box" nonsense, which is a typical consumer attitude (5D doesn't have Magic Lantern "out of the box" either). Besides, as far as I recall Hurlbut did another test of VLOG where he sounded much more positive.

 

And just as he said this, "hate from fanboys against criticism", he proved there are also those that are out to knock the GH5 every step of the way. I see it on multiple forums. So it clearly cuts both ways.

There will always be those that will refuse to admit that a newly released camera could possibly be better than their current 'pride & joy'. This 'protective' behavior is not seen just with cameras, but in many other areas of electronics, particularly high end video displays. 

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