GH5 10-bit 4:2:2 internal?

[cantsin]

5 hours ago, cantsin said:

10bit won't be enough for the GH5 to obsolete cameras like the FS5. Some limitations will remain: the MFT sensor will have about one step less light sensitivity/twice as much noise as a S35 sensor, the body won't be as robust (and not as optimized for video shooting), audio interfaces will be less professional, and the image will be more geared to amateur demand (with no possibility to completely dial out artificial sharpening).

Oh, and I forgot built-in ND, a killer feature which the GH5 won't have...

[Vesku]

4k 50/60P would be more important for normal user than 4k 24/25/30P 10bit 4:2:2. It means faster AF, less rolling shutter, less noise, better motion etc.

I hope they have fast enough sensor for that. 

[zerocool22]

Is 12bit or even 12+bit external possible? On what does it depend? The processor or the sensor? 

 

[Cassius McGowan]

58 minutes ago, cantsin said:

Oh, and I forgot built-in ND, a killer feature which the GH5 won't have...

That would be crazy if they offered built-in ND filters on a mirror-less system. 

[TSV]

47 minutes ago, Vesku said:

I hope they have fast enough sensor for that. 

Talking about sensor, there were an old rumour about that here :

http://www.43rumors.com/ft3-new-panasonic-gh5-sensor-is-made-by-sony/

“Sony has an 18.9mm*13mm M43 sensor designed for Panasonic that could be used in GH5. Very high-end, 24 channel super fast readout speed that BIONZX could not keep up with. Only Panasonic can fully unleash the potential of this chip right now.”

[The Chris]

10 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Panasonic has *nothing* priced under the Varicam LT as an ILC to protect at all.

Unlike Canon, or Sony (but Sony often ignores "protecting" their higher end gear, the FS7 is one classic case). 

The FS5 and GH5 are from different companies! Is complete bonkers of Chris to think Panasonic wouldn't put something in the GH5 because Panasonic fears taking away sales fron the FS5??!?!

I'm aware that there's nothing below the Varicam, point being all the crap people are talking about as possible spec isn't happening on a $1500 camera. Thats a $3-4000 body, easy. And it would sell at that price. 

[kidzrevil]

if this is true Panasonic can have all my money right now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cas1]

Question: Could 10 bit video also be used for the 4k photo feature?

Personally I'm looking forward to a G8, with IBIS.

[Mckinise]

6 hours ago, sanveer said:

Hahahahahahahaha. 

See, even the GH4 seriously outsold Panasonic's expected numbers, and thus production had to be seriously ramped up.

If Canon makes $100 on the C100 in net profits, then probably Panasonic makes $500 on GH4 (these numbers were obviously Very different, initially). But the GH4 probably sold like 50-100 times as much as he C100. So, in the end the pricing isn't governed by anything except net profits.

That is why field monitors cost so much more than Smartphones, despite the kind of features and technology found on each device.

At $2500 the GH5 can make a killing for a 4k 4-2-2 device, if it can attract a certain minimum numbers of people, who will primarily use it for stills. The DSLR/DSLM filmmaking community is still a very small proportion of the DSLR/DSLM buyers, and therefore its photography features would be a huge governing factor for its sales figures. 

$2,500?  That sounds like a Canon or Sony price.  I don't remember Panasonic being in the "extreme markup just because we can" business.  If they launch at that price the camera will not reach GH4 numbers. 

[Damphousse]

6 hours ago, sanveer said:

At $2500 the GH5 can make a killing for a 4k 4-2-2 device, if it can attract a certain minimum numbers of people, who will primarily use it for stills. The DSLR/DSLM filmmaking community is still a very small proportion of the DSLR/DSLM buyers, and therefore its photography features would be a huge governing factor for its sales figures. 

I don't see anything in the M43 world that makes $2,500 for stills make sense.  If I'm a stills shooter I go for full frame at $2,500.  I wouldn't even touch APS-C for that price.  And M43?!  No way.

[Jimmy]

6 minutes ago, Damphousse said:

I don't see anything in the M43 world that makes $2,500 for stills make sense.  If I'm a stills shooter I go for full frame at $2,500.  I wouldn't even touch APS-C for that price.  And M43?!  No way.

Exactly.... some people are just looking through their own small window rather than seeing the big picture. 

They can stuff it full of video features and slap a $4k price on it... people here will rejoice... yet it will fail.

We are still a small niche.

[hijodeibn]

I have been waiting for the GH5 for months, and there is no way I will get a M43 for $2,500, I'll pick up a Sony A6300, a GX85 or a canon XC10, the price should stay around $1,500 or going other route, and I am sure many will do the same

[Mattias Burling]

My guess Its probably gonna match the price of the X-t2. Not many regular Joes would pay more than that when the x-t2 is so feature packed and kinda sexy.

[IronFilm]

X-T2....   so $1.6K? 

That is barely more than what a GH4 has been recently. 

If they go nuts and give us 4K 60p 10bit 422 internal then I don't think a full two thousand dollars is at all unreasonable. The Nikon D500 is a crop sensor camera and goes for the same price.

Will still be heaps and heaps cheaper than any comparable Sony or Canon or BMD competitor.

[Mattias Burling]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

X-T2....   so $1.6K? 

That is barely more than what a GH4 has been recently. 

If they go nuts and give us 4K 60p 10bit 422 internal then I don't think a full two thousand dollars is at all unreasonable. The Nikon D500 is a crop sensor camera and goes for the same price.

Will still be heaps and heaps cheaper than any comparable Sony or Canon or BMD competitor.

Maybe so.
But my guess is that they cant charge the same as a D500. Its just to much. Then I suspect people would say exactly that, "what? that's as much as a Nikon D500!".
The introduction price of the GH4 was less than the introduction price of the XT1 and XT2.
And I suspect it will stay that way.

(BTW, current retail price of the GH4 is $870. Same as the XT1)

 

[IronFilm]

D500 was focused at a certain niche of still shooters. As is the GH5, aimed at a small niche of shooters, who are film enthusiasts.

Just like B.I.F. & sports shorters appreciate the details of a D500 in how it makes it worth the money, so will filmmakers appreciate the awesomeness of internal 4K 60fps 10bit and is worth every penny of $2K.

[Jimmy]

D500 is far, far from a niche camera.... The GH series is not niche either, it is their flagship model that shifts 10,000s of units. It just so happens to tick boxes of certain niche areas.

It's main target, just like the D500, is the high end consumer/prosumer who wants to shoot stills and some video that are better than their phone. Consumers don't pay a premium for niche features like 10bit. Panasonic will add these features to stay relevant. They have to be aggressive, as they don't have brand pull like Canon or Nikon. If the price changes by even 10% on the GH4 launch price, i'd be shocked.. no matter what they put in it.

In an ideal world, these cameras would be open source... The consumer buys the capable base model and then the niche markets buy add ons such as pro video features.

[IronFilm]

I feel not that many people purchase the GH4 for the stills only capabilities. 

They purchased the much cheaper GH3 instead, or one of the GX series or went with Olympus if a serious stills only MFT shooter.

Panasonic has a chance with the GH5 to make a very video orientated  (but still very small / stealthy form factor) camera, unlike anything else from the competition. GH series from the start (such as the very first: G1 vs GH1) has always been more video orientated than normal for a pure stills line up.

[Jimmy]

Every international airport I am in tends to have a few models from each brand ready to catch the consumer/prosumer market... The GH range are part of that. People are buying it for stills, for stills and video, for video.. It's their flagship, an all-rounder.... Like I said, Panasonic have to be aggressive, so adding more top/pro video features to their flagship is a way to make the camera stand out (consumers like video too!)

If they price it like a pro camera though, those airport type of consumers quickly go elsewhere.

[cantsin]

The camera industry is currently fighting its crisis with steep price increases - in a dramatically shrinking market, profits can no longer be made through sheer volume, but through profit margins per sold unit. 

Some indicators: The official price for a Sony a6000 body official price was $650 when it was released in 2014, the price for a Sony a6300 body climbed to $1000 in 2016. The Sony A7s was released in 2014 for $2500, the A7s II in 2015 for $3000. Nikon has increased the prices for its lenses by 18% this year.

So:

• the GH5 promises be an as substantial update to the GH4 as the a6300 was to the a6000;
• the price increase from the a6000 to the a6300 was 54%.
• comparing Panasonic to Sony makes sense since both consumer electronics giants generally compete in the same markets, and are major competitors in the mirrorless camera market like Nikon and Canon compete in the DSLR market; 
• the GH4 body cost $1700 when it was released in 2014, an initial price of up to $2600 (53% increase) for the GH5 body could be possible, and wouldn't be excessive.