Danyyyel

11 minutes ago, Geoff_L said:

Thanks for these wise words ! All I can say is that I'm really satisfied with my z6, as it is, although conscious and irritared by some quirks (like every camera eh ?). At first, I wanted to later buy a bmpcc4k, or even a 5d iii + ml for the raw capabilitie and more cinematic/narrative stuff. If adding a ninja v with the future firmware update will bring me close or not too far from to the 2 aforementioned cameras, in terms of imagery, I'll be more than happy. In that case, the ninja v would only be added for specific shots, more planned, with more stuff around, thus the "bulk" generated being completely invisible.

Exactly, I just did nearly two week non stop shoot around my tropical island for a reportage on a Victoria Secret model coffee book shoot. That shoot was intense in very harsh tropical summer climate with a lot of rainfall, heat and humidity (shooting a lot around the water). At first I was a bit embarrassed to shoot on such a small camera and rigged it a little, after not even half day, I was shooting mostly hand held and with my 7 inch Ninja. This shoot was going fast and I did not want to interfere at all as most of the team was coming from US and with the weather had a very tight schedule. After watching the fotage at night I slowly moved to only the internal shooting and was really impresed by the internal 120 fps 1080p footage. Where I en-counted problem with the footage was banding in the blue sky, I watched some tutorial and got some great result with qualifier and ofx debanding in Davinci resolve.

Perhaps for a Nikon shooter this is extraordinary and would have been normal for other MILC shooters. But for me it was extraordinary, I got some amazing tracking and slowmo handheld footage (I was starting to have to restrict myself with the slowmo because it was so gorgeous), that Nikon quality with all the features of the Z6 video capabilities like Ibis, auto focus, handling ergonomic, build quality is mind boggling in such a small package. Now if I was first camera and I had a more compact Ninja V than my 7 inch one. I would have perhaps done more 10 bit shooting and use an external recorder. But even then, with mostly the 4k and 120 fps codec bitrate, I am stunned by the quality.

The last thing I don't understand is the supposed non cinematic image of the camera. I guess some people might understand that its not shooting in crappy light that will make their camera look cinematic or not, perhaps they should look at the meaning of the word. Because for me, my images are coming out great. There is not one people from the US team (photographer working for vogue etc) thought the image were crap. 

19 hours ago, currensheldon said:

Totally agree on the 4K Ninja Star. As much as I love 10-bit 422 output and ProRes and ProRes Raw and all the other great things that external recorders give us, I hate external recorders. Putting a Ninja V on an EOS R or Z6 or X-T3 is sort of ridiculous (as others have mentioned here) and automatically negates why I would use those cameras in the first place (small, unassuming, versatile, total lightweight package, easy to mount on gimbal, etc).

With the Ninja V, you also need to carry around 5-6 big NPF batteries (and therefore 5-6 chargers) just to get through a day of shooting. And also make sure your sound recordist is standing a good distance away from the camera. Which is difficult when you are also the sound recordist. 

Whether it's my C200 or EOS R or when using something like the GH5 or C300, I don't have any issues with the screens on those cameras. A monitor/recorder is often redundant, loud, and unnecessary (unless you're using the EVA-1, then an external monitor is totally necessary).

PLEASE Atomos. Give me a compact 10-bit 422 4K Recorder without a screen and with a 5-watt per hour power draw (like most non-recording monitors). 

I just don't understand what people expect anymore. The size and weight of a z6 and a Ninja 5 is smaller that using one of those entry level dslr and a small flash. That is less than the average Japanase/chinese tourist with his small Nikon/canon camera walking around taking photos in some random tourist location. The C200 is much bigger and not full frame, to have a full frame video camera with 10 bit just 5 month ago was the Canon C300 a much bigger shoulder only camera and now you have to add a codex recorder to put RAW. The fact is that your type of (small, unassuming, versatile, total lightweight package, easy to mount on gimbal, etc) does not need more than 8 bit shooting, 10 bit and even prores is an overkill to shoot those low level production.

Just six month ago, absolutely no one was expecting any manufacturer (I even include the likes of blackmagic)was going to release a full frame camera with RAW. In fact everyone was begging for 10 bit for at least the last 2-5 years. Just for a measure, this is the Nikon d3200, the smallest Nikon dslr compared to the z6-z7. In pure volume the Z6 is smaller (much thinner) and I advise anyone to look at the Nikon D3000 series camera in a showroom or people using it. This thing is tiny to the point of being uncomfortable if you have average man hand.

On 2/1/2019 at 5:12 PM, ivanku said:

I agree that the weird IBIS artifacts almost disappear at 50mm, but it’s not distortion correction that’s causing this. I tested a couple of manual focus wide angle lenses with corrections turned off, and saw the same wobbles. 

I also saw some weird wobbling in ibis mode. I didn't make scientific test, put putting it in sport mode seems to get rid of it. I have work two week extensively on a project with the z6 and put it in sport mode most of the time and did not see it at all. At least it was not obvious at all for me to notice.

15 hours ago, Mako Sports said:

With the EOS RP announcement and 6 New RF lenses. Nikon will have to go into complete and total overdrive to stay relevant. A new 24 70 2.8 and $6000 50mm MF lenses simply isn't enough. 

Sincerely, what are you gona attach to those lens, I mean for video as we are on a video site. Two mediocre bodies (for video). Nikon has already release 4 lens and they all got very very good to rave reviews. When your 50 mm 1.8 compares well to zeiss Otus it is no mean feat. Every lens from the kit 24-70 f4 zoom (which is even sharper than Nikon 24-70 2.8) have those great reviews. Then you have the hundreds of Nikon, Sigma, Tamron lens that you can use with the adapter. So we are already at 4 lens launch and another one in 1-2 month and we will be around 8 to 10 by the end of this year.

The one which is completely going in inverse overdrive is Canon. They don't want so much to not give people good to great video features that they are prepared to go the price war way. Hey look our shiny 1.3 k ff mirrorless camera with shitty video, it cost so low that it is about half the price of the lens we have launched.

I think we are at the tipping point where Sony will do a Canon, that is not to cannibalize its pro video camera division, it will offer you everything except 10 bit or RAW.

For now one is about practicality, these new cameras with their autofocus are a game changer, unless you are doing very high end job, even that is questionable or will be as tech advances. Now when you add IBIS and very good viewfinder, the z6 would kill the Pocket 4k. I was thinking of getting a Pocket 4k as a backup to my Z6 (getting it tomorrow) because of the Raw, 4k 60p and price. Now I don't know. At 1300 USD, it is really a very good price as the z6 would do 80-90% of the job and the P4k would offer raw (no more an advantage) but mostly 60p 4k.

Sincerely, people should chill out a bit. We are getting a Full Frame raw 4k camera, with very very very very  good low light, dynamic range, auto focus, IBis, viewfinder etc for 2700 USD. Less if you buy the complete filmmaker kit. There is nothing remotely close to that and people are still complaining. What is small enough for people these days. The Z6 Ninja V combo is smaller than my d7100 Dslr and a Flash. When you see the amount of active cooling something like the Pocket 4k needs for a sensor that is 1/4 of the Z6 people have to be a bit realistic. Another thing to consider is a user of a Ninja Flame, having an external recorder like this brings so much functionality for focusing, previewing and exposure tools that go so much beyond just a recorder.

39 minutes ago, Django said:

This is big news but i think it's worth mentioning that ProRes RAW currently only opens in FCPX. If you are on Adobe, Resolve or PC it's going to be a no go (AFAIK).

That is pretty limiting compared to other recent Raw codecs like Canon Raw Light which has native support in FCPX, Resolve & Avid.

It's also bit of a shame Nikon couldn't work out to record ProRes Raw internally. They opted for those expensive XQD/CFexpress media cards, why not take advantage of the speed they offer to record high bitrate internally?

 

1 hour ago, Castorp said:

Nikon hasn't done firmware updates like this in the past. I wonder if this is new for the Z system? This is potentially very big. What a lovely surprise. I really didn't expect this from Nikon. 

There has been some management change if I am not mistaken. It is true that they have sometimes added  some functionality but never at this level. One reason could also be that other manufacturer have come with 10 bit video just after them and just like that they where just in the pack, with Pana and Fuji with 4k 60p. As a Nikon user, every time Nikon came out with some new video tech, but just at the same time someone came and just took the limelight out of them. Even if I know how good the Nikon video image is for quite some time, most people consider them as not good or only photographic centric company. This time would have played the same way, the Z6 would have been only for Nikon connoisseur. The rest would have still been Sony, Canon, Pana or even fuji video users. When you think the A73 was considered game changing like only 9 month ago and the z6 more or less beats it in every way, this tells you how low Nikon is in the video community. 

While now, with this RAW upgrade, they clearly make a Canon 5D move in 2008. All the others, except Fuji are scratching their heads. This would kill a lot of sales for Canon, Sony and Pana if they put RAW in their 2000-3000 mirrorless camera in their video camera line.

1 hour ago, DBounce said:

I'm calling BS on prores raw... I have an Z6, and it's great in many ways. But there are things that need to be fixed.... the AF in low-light, the AF in NLog and hey, internal NLog would be great. Honestly, if Prores Raw actually bought anything worthwhile to the table; I would be all over it, but I suspect it is nothing more than hype. However, since we are posting videos...

 

His example is a bit of a stretch, but as a Nikon photo Raw shooter I have pulled a lot of blown highlight or recovered super underexposed images, I never thought would be possible. Raw also is another league in terms of possibility for color correction, it is just another world.

I hope Nikon (more atomos) puts a version of the open source black magic Codec. Until now Prores Raw is only a Mac only format and FCPX. From what I saw BM raw has more compressed version, is open source and multi platform. The problem is, will Atomos go the BM raw while they had exclusivity with Apple etc. Or BM comes with another recorder thatcan take this signal and convert it to BM raw.

14 minutes ago, DBounce said:

I recall seeing some test that seemed to suggest that Prores Raw was no better than regular prores. What's the verdict? Is this really a big step up from log,  or just hype?

Does this mean the AF issues will be resolved when recording externally? 

It all seems rather compelling. 

I don't think you can get even close to that much latitude or processing from normal  Prores.

WOW, I thought it was a joke, I am bewildered, I was hopeful Nikon would do some firmware update, but this one is out of this world. My z6 in arriving in two days, it is as if I am getting a new camera. I hope they do it for the 1080 version also. For those asking about raw 6k to 4k etc, Nikon has some lower rez raw format for photo already, they might use the same system for video.

This is another Canon 5d moment. I am sure people in Sony, Pana and Canon HQ are in panic mode. This camera will more or less beat anything below 30 000 USD. It will be a full frame Raw camera with at least 14 stop of DR, low light that will beat every APSC photo/video camera, very good IBIS and slowmotion etc. The only place it will be beaten is slow motion and Nikon is coming with a full set of video centric lens that will be a bargain in the video/cinema world. 

Does anyone know the different bitrate of prores raw. I have seen Black Magic ones but I don't know compression of Prores Raw.

3 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

I will blow everything below 10k out of the water when it works. A Full frame RAW shooter that does 13.6 EV stops of DR. The mavo LF is the nearest camera to it but that one is 12K body only. (well 4K 60fps will not be possible I guess, but I am happy with just 1080p 60fps but 24/25fps is still the goto framerate)

Will it cure the rolling shutter and crop, if not, it will still be more of a gimmick than a true pro camera. Now when you have a 6K USD BM ursa mini pro with BM new compress raw format, you would get back the difference in money in less than 1 year. You could also get the C200.

17 hours ago, frontfocus said:

best? No. It's one of the sharpest though

yes. Nice backscreen. Better than the A7III

yes

and mediocre autofocus for stills. For AF-C I'd even call it bad

with just one card slot and that one is XQD. Won't buy
 

no. It's autofocus is years behind the Sony and so is the continous stills shooting experience. It got one card slot which makes it useless to some. It has no option for a batterygrip yet and the list goes on. And no, I am no huge fan of the Sony, but for hybrid shooters I feel the Sony is the much better option. 

My coffee machine has better AF-C than the Nikon

? ? ?

I hope your coffee machine can do actions photos like that. Care to give me the brand please so I can dish all my cameras. I prefer to take advise from actual professional than youtubers and website who never ever have any practical shooting experience and will spend one day with a completely new camera. Thtas his setting and feeling about z6 https://www.facebook.com/groups/NikonMirrorless/permalink/462911304234806/?comment_tracking={"tn"%3A"O"}

Here is another shoot with his account https://***URL removed***/forums/thread/4340957

I am sure that your coffee machine can also be used in the staples center to photograph Lebron. below is the account of the shooter, a known sport shooter and not some random dude on the youtube or those dpreview guy that can't even shoot outside of test chart.

https://www.facebook.com/robert.hanashiro/media_set?set=a.10156360392953025&type=3

Nikon z6 Metallica  , and his account on the Af in challenging lights  https://***URL removed***/forums/thread/4343245#forum-post-61973980

31 minutes ago, frontfocus said:

Nikon made a nice attempt but for me it feels like catching up with 2 year old cameras and not matching what is available today. 
?

Sincerely, best evf and back screen for most, very very good Full frame IBIS, very very good video autofocus, outstanding body construction (lensrental rivaling best DSLR ones), 10 bit and log. What did you expect, it beats the A73 in everything except native lens choice (The adapted Nikon lens are still very good on the body). I don't what some people expected, perhaps a coffee machine option. The only body that would beat it depending if you want better slowmotion and internal 10 bit is the Fuji XT3. Now if for you IBIS and better low light is more important and the FF look, then the Nikon would win. As for the Sony, when the next one comes out, then we can compare to the z6, because for now the z6 is in every way better.

6 minutes ago, Shirozina said:

Then you need to learn about  the nyquist theorem and the difference between pixels count and resolution.....otherwise people will be laughing at you;)

I dont give a damn about the nyquist theorem because I and 99.99% of people can barely see above 2k in a cinema screen. So what difference it will make, weven if I do know that Bayer sensor with the fact that they contain only one color per pixel need about 1/3 more pixel to get to the said resolution. But, all this math mean nothing if you can't see it.  

I don't give a shit about 8k and to a certain extend 4k. I remember countless discussion with people lecturing me how 4k would take the world in 2-5 years because it was so superior etc and it was in 2010-2012. I told them that it took more than a decade or two (because we are still a lot in the SD-720p) world than 1080p even now. Even if it was a big jump in quality from SD and FHD. Even 720p was a big leap from SD. So that if it took that much for such an advancement, moving from FHD to 4k will take much more time, because the leap now would be minimal. For me the ideal resolution would be 3k for pristine 2k (Alexa). But I am ok with 4k at least for dslr milc that have higher megapixel generaly as they don't resolve as good as native video camera. I cannot even stop laughting about those people saying... hey we need 6k scaled down to get true 4k etc... it is as if anyone can see... now 8k LOL

4 hours ago, DBounce said:

More low-light testing... amazing! This camera is quite versatile. I have a feeling it will live on my motion controller for everything low-light. 

What until now I don't understand, not judging you in particular, but there are quite a lot of low light test, I guess by nw we know that we can use 6400 ISO and go to 12800 or even 25600 ISO. But no one was able to do a test with what is the real innovation of this camera and it is 10 bit log profile. That is the first test I will do with this camera when I get it start of next year, put it at 800 ISO, log, 10 bit and shoot some people and landscape. Just to know what is the ultimate quality of this camera.

On 12/15/2018 at 10:39 PM, webrunner5 said:

Well it is their first effort. It is not going to be perfect even with a bunch of Firmware updates. It will take a few more generations to get up to speed.

I remember when you where saying that Nikon first gen would never compete against Sony third gen. You know what the Z6 is better than the A73 Sony MILC, better viewfinder, rear screen, ergonomic, 10 bit, construction weather sealing, 10 bit etc. The only thing it looses is Continous autofocus in.............. photo and not video. So what I expect is at least 1 or 2 firmware update for continuous autofocus to get it better. That does not mean that its photo autofocus is bad, it is just not at the same level than the Sony in Continous autofocus.

4 hours ago, BasiliskFilm said:

10 bit log output - looks like Sony's handicapping may not be very effective

I can't understand people thinking, Sony sensor division is number one in the world, why would they handicap their reputation to protect 13% Milc Dslr market. They would alienate 90% of their own customer.

Just now, DBounce said:

Who talking about SD... Check out CFExpress here. It can write 1TBs per second. Way faster than any currently available.

Yep and that is the reason Nikon decided to put small buffers in the Z (mostly noticeable in the z7 than z6 in photography). Because Buffers might become nearly redundant when you can write at those speeds. But , I never saw anything about internal 10 bit., which would have been nice.

3 hours ago, DBounce said:

Yes, they said XQD is not fast enough to support it internally, but once the much faster CF-Express cards are available they will push out a new firmware that will allow this feature. I thought this was common knowledge?

I think you are mistaken on that, XQD is already much faster than SD card and should easily be able to do 10 bit it is only 2 bit more and about 20-25% more data.

20 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Yep, I do not even own a 4K tv or monitor, but recently I had to give 4K material to a client for 2 different jobs, so I am buying a 4K monitor/TV and editing PC in 2019. Everyone and their mothers (quite literally) own a 4KnTV these days (there are as low as 300euros here), and younger people want something to watch on their new shiny 4K TVs, so I see demand for 4K videos will rise significantly, and really soon. It is going to be a necessity.

8K TVs are sold here as well, I do not see this technology catching up before 2025, or even 2225! But seriously, 8K is mandatory for VR/360 video, 4K just doesn't have the necessary resolution, so these 2 technologies will be linked I guess. So in the traditional form of film and video 4K will be enough, but in newer aspects of the industry 8K will be needed.

People are getting 4k TV by default , its not like they really really want it, it is just that you can get a 4k TV for 5-10% more than a 1080p one, or no more 1080p model. In fact if 4k was successful in anyway, there would have been a premium on that, but like 3D, no one cares. The reality is that young people are watching movies on their mobile phone or tablets. We are living the MP3 audio transition but for video. It is really sad for people like us who are a bit passionate about image quality but that's a big trend.

The TV manufacturers and as a lot of other consumer electronic product are experiencing a shrinking market because people just can't see a big difference between 1080p and 4k at normal viewing distance. The only thing that for me would push big sales again would be a cheap tech for much bigger screen size. If you could get 80+ inch screen for 1k etc, then people will go back buying TV. Display size does make a difference in the viewing at least for me.

19 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

There is a Huge difference between even 1080p and 2K let alone what 4K looks like. Saying 4K is a waste of time is crazy. It is beautiful just like HDR 4K is even better. Now is it necessary, well I think so if you are into watching movies. But I have seen little that looks very Filmic, Cinematic on footage that sharp, but like I have said those days are dying. Sharp as heck footage is in, and it is here to stay like it or not. No going back. Beautiful B&W Movies from the late 30's, early 40's are literally going to be a thing of the past. Shame.

Sincerely there is about 100 pixel difference between a 1080p and 2k screen. If you can tell me how there is a huge difference, i am happy to hear that. When I am talking about 1080p, I am not talking about Canon 5d style 1080p which is barely 720p, but true 1080p-2k from camera like the Alexa. In my country most screen are still 1080p-2k and until now I have never seen a pixel on 10 meter wide screen.

12 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Japan is broadcasting 8K right now. They have and sell 8K TV's. Apparently most countries are Way behind. I would imagine if you output in 4K doing a lot of Green, Blue screen, VFX, 8K would be a god send. People that buy and use the Red VV 8K camera must be using a 8K monitor. Lot cheaper I bet than a few cameras I suspect.

I am still waiting for 4k next year for the last 5 years, oh wait I am still waiting for 1080p, because 90% of the world is still on 720p and SD. Japan and Korea are some kind of tech lab experiment that never represent the world. In fact 1080p is good enough and in a good sense for any normal viewing distance display for our human brain. Over and above that is really pushing it in terms of diminishing return. it is like moving from a 100 hp car to a 400 hp one to get .2 second better from 0 to 100, now that's for 4k, I don't even know what will 8k bring.

On 12/5/2018 at 10:33 AM, Jordan Drake said:

I do think the main purchasers for video will almost exclusively be people with a large selection of Nikkor AF glass

I don't understand the logic of this conclusion at all. I mean why should... "almost exclusively" be people with a large selection of Nikkor AF glass chose the z6.  It is nothing outrageous to say that the z6 is the best video MILC for now and only behind the XT3 if you really want 4k 60 fps and don't care about IBIS. So why should only Nikon users be interested in the top 2 best video MILC. As illustrated by the video below, the guy finding himself so much liking the z6 that he doesn't know what to choose between it and the A73 which he already has.

What some will point out is the native lens selection. If someone starts from zero for sure the Sony has more lens but Nikon has already put out a roadmap. By this time next year we will have most of the pro quality lens to cater for 80% of use, and in two years 90% of what most people use. We already have FTZ adapter which caters for everything. The only grippe with the Ftz is video, because of motor noise. But as seen by most account the F mount lens work very well with the z6 ftz adapter combo. But if you are serious about video you will never use the internal microphone but get an external one. Another thing with the FTZ adapter, waiting for native lens, I could buy new or even better used, a bunch of quality Fmount lens for the price of one new Sony lens.

The other thing about the Z lens mount is, do you buy into Sony system (which is already very costly) or buy into a new system that is planed to be future proof. With that bigger mount we can already see with Nikon and Canon that it opens new possibilities with higher quality fast lens and completely new formula as F2 zoom. Other innovation like third ring that can be programmed for smooth aperture or Iso change. So my conclusion of this conclusion, why should the z6 "almost exclusively" be people with a large selection of Nikkor AF glass, when ultimately it is at least as good and potentially much better than the competition. 

Just now, jjj said:

Hi.  I rented a Z6 for this weekend.  It just arrived so I can't say much about it, but, I can speak to the performance of two Tamron lenses using the FTZ adapter.

1.  Tamron 15-30/2.8 (version 1) works fine in both stills and video.  AF works as expected.

2a.  Tamron 35/1.8 (version 1).  No AF in stills.  MF works fine, and the Z6 has a nice zoom button and peaking to allow precise manual focusing.

2b.  Tamron 35/1.8 (version 1).  Does not work in Video Mode, neither MF or AF.  The Z6 loses its mind in video mode.  The aperture jumps around willy/nilly and sometimes error messages pop up.  Pretty weird, since the 35/1.8 is fine using MF in stills.

If I am not mistaken, Tamron has issued firmware update for about 5-6 lens and from user report they work well as with other Nikon bodies. Now , these were for the more recent lens with some kind of system to update firmware. I think they have been quite reactive and can be a hint that reverse engineering the S mount is not that complicated. Now people are questioning what will happen to the older lens.

I think it is your beta software, You have got this test between D750 and Z6 and surprisingly when you consider Dpreview lab test, the z6 is better than the D750. I don't doubt the test because the pink shadows is typical of the older Nikon camera and it has been better since the latest ones.