Danyyyel

20 hours ago, kye said:

I agree with "not as soon as you think" but if we take my 20MB 3.5inch HDD as an example, a 2TB drive is 100,000 times the capacity and that's not even cherry- picking a better example.  That took about 30 years, which is a 47% annual increment, and I don't see any reason that wouldn't continue almost indefinitely.

Moores Law says double every 1.5 years for the same cost, which means that in 3 years 8K will be as taxing as 4K is now, and in 6 years 16K will be as taxing as 4K is now.

That's not that much time really ???

In what universe people are living. Moore law is not eternal, if you did not notice computer power increase has slowed down quite a bit, if it was not for Amd Ryzen processors we would not see any increase for the last 5-7 years. RAM and Hard disk is a bit worst, long are the days of increasing density for less and less. HD price had stayed about the same for more than 5 years.  Media cost is costing quite a bit more as moving from 1080p to 4k is quadruple the data needed. and nowhere has the price of media decrease or capacity increase by 4x.

14 hours ago, barefoot_dp said:

And do you know why they withhold it, in many circumstances? Marketing.

They release certain features at a time which will give them the best market advantage.

The camera megapixel wars slowed down once they realised people were more interested in other features (video being one of them), and their R & D dollars were better spent elsewhere. And similarly, I think the TV resolution wars will have less to do with technical limits and more to do with consumer disinterest - eventually everyone will just go "that's more than enough for me". That is when the companies will stop flogging higher resolution as their primary marketing tool and start on the next big thing which they might have been holding onto for some time - perhaps AI screens?

This treat has turn into some cospiracy theory, ask intel how marketing has mess up with their 10nm process so that AMD is beating them up hard. Intel must be so happy loosing market share because you know that's the aim of mega corporations. By the way if you want to see one example of how we are reaching some very very hard limit, the intel 10 nm debacle is the right example. Once always the N01 in process tech by one to two generation they missed the boat completely.

15 hours ago, kaylee said:

@Snowbro i mean.... maybe one day lol

we live in a world where producers/directors/content distributors make, what are in practice, nonsensical demands bc OBVIOUSLY besides some ppl on this board, NO ONE knows 4k from a hole in the wall

to these morons, 4k = sharper, which = better

will 6k be a thing for delivery? i say no: the 4k gimmick hasnt worked with consumers, imho. sure, the big manufacturers have sold a lot of tvs, but the ppl who have 4k sets that i know (civilian nonfilmmakers lol) have no idea wtf theyre watching, and dont *feel* the benefit of their higher res tvs, so i highly doubt that those same (rich) ppl are going to get "fooled again" so easily ?at least not in the next few years ?

You are on a gear head/ Nerd forum, what did you expect. The only things working here is the latest 6k, raw or whatever camera. Talk art, cinematography etc and you get  3 response at best. I never ever saw one person complain about 2k on the big screen, they will complain about the story, acting, special effect eventually, but never ever if the movie was in 2k.

So has Sony launch that 8k camera LOL, more funny is people thinking that Sony will cannibalize all there Camera line for them. By the way where is 10 bit, is that too much to ask.

7 hours ago, DBounce said:

Nikon had mentioned internal raw coming after adding CFExpress support, so this doesn't surprise me. I'll be curious to see what the footage looks like. Internal raw for a hybrid that is usable for daily use,  without the need for rigging would be a huge breakthrough. Should a Sony A7S3 eventually be released I seriously doubt it will have internal raw. Nikon might be stealing everyone's thunder. 

People are crazy, in 1-2 month when they bring out the update and there is no internal Raw, many will come here and say how they did not win an Oscar because Nikon did not put internal Raw in the Z6. One thing I would recommend anyone, you can get a refurbish z6 for 1350 USD. Just add an atomos Ninja 5 to that and for barely 2k, you are getting a full frame 4k camera, that does not have some of the best ergonomics but also out of the box color and video autofocus (forgot IBIS). The Ninja, will give you a ton of other features that make it so much more than just a recorder with a plethora of Focus and exposure tool.

Now until Nikon comes out with the price of the RAW upgrade, I cannot be sure on the RAW camera cost. If we speculate it is between 200- 500, you might get a full features FF raw video camera for less than 2.5k. If someone told me that we would have such a camera one year ago, I would have called him crazy. But you will have a bunch here that will always be complaining. If ever that internal RAW comes along as speculated on this thread, it will be in an uncompressed form, good luck working with these gigantic files beyond the cat footage and wife driving car.

I meant, I just don't understand people... above.

On 8/27/2019 at 8:56 PM, Cliff Totten said:

OUCH!  Well?...Atomos DID say that "they" were ready but that the bottleneck was on Nikon's side. With Nikon not really being an experienced "video" company,  I guess they bit off more than they could chew, I have to guess the raw data pipeline just wasn't designed into the motherboard and HDMI data bus.

I was told that Atomos' raw over HDMI scheme uses the built-in and RARELY implemented Ethernet spec inside HDMI 1.4 and higher. If Nikon is going to do it the Atomos way, they need to uses an HDMI chipset that is capable of accessing that Ethernet data bus inside HDMI 1.4+.  Is it possible that Nikon's HDMI controller doesn't employ that Ethernet data channel?

Secondly, Nikon needs to dump the raw sensor readout data to the HDMI bus...pre-image processor. This motherboard needs to be wired to do that in advance. If the raw sensor data goes straight into the Z6 image processor, that's no good for raw over HDMI output. Is it possible that the Z6 HDMI is wired straight into the output of the image processor.

I don't know,....but this makes BOTH Nikon and Atomos look really bad. More so on Nikon because they seemingly told Atomos their Z6 motherboard could do it. 

What a newbie mistake on Nikon's part!

CT

Yep, perhaps some component is not holding up to what they expected and they prefer to play it safe and do a hardware upgrade. On every site people have been complaining about companies giving more features if need, even for a paid upgrade. You have a company doing it, and giving you the ultimate format and people are still complaining. I mean Nikon just brought 10 bit (full frame) and raw to the dslr mirrorless market price segment and those guys are still complaining. You would believe Nikon just removed 24p in their latest camera release or still sticking to 8bit video.

On 8/28/2019 at 12:18 AM, Simon Young said:

Soooo while Panasonic releases their latest beast of a full frame video camera Nikon quietly sneaks out a silent “we fucked you”.... nice.

People are real life jokes, so you are getting RAW video from an update and don't have to buy a new camera and you are still complaining. The z6 is like half the cost of that Panasonic and is still beyond most people capabilities as shown by the video above.

On 8/29/2019 at 1:36 PM, The ghost of squig said:

Nikon so easily could. Nikon doesn't have a pro video line to cannibalise, and if a small company like Blackmagic can do internal raw(ish), so can Nikon.

Have you seen the size of the BM apsc only 6k camera. Tell me about it's superb autofocus and battery life for video... and photo. Oh yeah, Nikon should do a video camera and forget there core market for some people on the internet that I am sure has a valid reason to need a raw full frame camera for less than 3k. They are really ripping their customers.

On 8/11/2019 at 9:10 PM, Video Hummus said:

Buy that tv now and wait 5+ years for 8K content maybe even 10 years if you are in the USA; since our govt persists in allowing companies to drag ass on building out fiber networks (or outright not allowing local municipalities to do it themselves) which are essential if you want general 8K programming to the mass population.

I would prefer to watch 2.8k alexa footage than any 6k footage from most other camera. I just understand people, if you think anything beyond 4k ( I would even say true 2k) is going to bring anything more in terms of image quality, you are completely wrong.

So, anyone with a long term feedback about the Z log. I have tried to look around but not a lot of footage and more importantly test. I use quite extensively the flat profile but would like to get a better dynamic range internally without using my Ninja recorder.

On 6/12/2019 at 5:19 PM, BTM_Pix said:

Slightly related as an alternative/supplement are programmable keypads so you can create your own surface.

It has 23 programmable keys (ignore the keycaps as you also get a set of blanks) and these can be set to single keys or multi stroke macros.

You can also setup four layers to increase the flexibility and it is very reasonably priced at £34, particularly when compared to something like the X-Keys products.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mechanical-Keyboard-Koolertron-Programmable-Portable-23keys-Blue-Switches-Blue-Backlit/dp/B07SFFHQCJ

 

Is it for PC, I don't understand if you need an app or not.

The beauty of Nikon colors, encoding seems bad on this video.

First test I saw of the z6 in low light for video with firmware 2.0. I would call it impressive.

On 5/2/2019 at 11:21 PM, SteveOakley said:

Canon should of taken the money from my hand with the EOS R, but they didn't because of all its problems. Instead went with a fuji XT3 as a B cam / gimbal cam. Its an amazing camera for the price. You guys need to get over the full frame fetish because it just doesn't matter, in fact its just plain harder to shoot when it comes to video. reality is APSC / S35 is a rather ideal compromise between sensor size, DoF, DR and everything else you care about. In practical production, you're going to shoot FF a stop more closed down to get some margin of focus in DoF which means you are matching the look of S35, but with more light or turning the ISO up a stop. So same difference, just harder.  C300-2 is a S35 size sensor btw...

canon's lack of a C300-3 or C400 at NAB was no doubt due to lack of a R mount. I'm sure they had it ready with a EF mount, but went back to redesign the body with a R mount to sell R glass, or LPL.  Getting an internal ND wheel into a body like that is gonna be a challenge. They want to move away from EF as fast as they can now to sell us new glass. bad move, no wonder their booth was pretty empty even on mon. 

while still camera bodies are nice for small size when thats important, lack of solid audio in some cameras, lack of XLR, SDI, TC I/O, not shoulder mount friendly,  lack of good internal / on board batteries, enough buttons and knobs for important functions, not so easy to work with large lenses w/o lots of rigging, and adding on all the other gack means cinema camera bodies still have a lot of value for most folks. 

I was never the biggest fan of super low dof video when it was so in vogue when the 5D came out etc, find it distracting for video. But now I think it is the best format at least for doc work. The two reason is that a F4 zoom will provide you S35 F 2.8 esthetic for half or lower price and secondly flexibility. The Nikon 24-70 F4 is 600 usd with the body, which will provide you 24-70 in apsc 2.8 equivalences and 70 to 105 mm in f4 apsc look when you put the camera in 4k apsc mode. Now thats the most restrictive f4 zoom range. I for example was thinking of getting a 24-120 F4 (Fmount). That is a 24-120 equivalent f 2.8 s35 look. There is no APSC lens like that until you get into those CINE zoom that cost more than a car and need a car to carry them. Even a 24-105 mm F4 lens would cover 90% of needs.

Another thing which is better with FF format is ND filter. You are getting a stop more you can close down to maintain s35 look. I have found that most variable ND filter start to exhibit x pattern etc at about 5-6 stop, which is exactly the range a F4 aperture works out in sunlight situation.

On 5/2/2019 at 10:18 PM, TwoMetreBill said:

Mistake 1:  Canon is using 4-5 year old technology. 

Mistake 2: Nikon is using 1-2 year old technology. 

The Sony FF are basically computers with a lens mount. Their handling is worst of breed. CaNikon had the opportunity to offer the first mirrorless FF cameras that handled like cameras and they threw it away. Sad. 

What are you saying, at least for Nikon, the z6 beats the A73 in everything except photo auto focus. For video it will get RAW video firmware upgrade, that is a $2500 (today with discount) package with full frame RAW video, which is insane. The Nikon error was the dual card slot and releasing the z7 before the z6 and at a price which was higher than the D850. Everyone compared it to what is the best DSLR in history and it did not compare in two very important thing compared to it. The first being auto focus that is better than any MILC including Sony and dual card slot. Third thing is Lens line-up which is normal. They are working a lot on it, but will know only in 2 years how much it affected Sales compared to Sony, when native lens line up is more mature.

Now looking at the figures, clearly the dual card slot and photo auto focus (which is getting a big update in a week), have made a lasting impact to the sales. I hope they remedy the dual card slot in next version and produce a cheaper version with fully articulating screen. For me Nikon should absolutely produce an APSC Z mount like the D5600. That is a perfect vlogger camera (which will be smaller than d5600) with full articulating screen, to get people into the system.

1 hour ago, androidlad said:

For a 36x24mm FF sensor, 300nm vs 90nm process really make very little if any difference to image quality. There are more important contributors.

CMOS sensors are not CPU, there's no constant need to shrink the die.

I think the difference is that most of the electronics can be much smaller, thus leaving more space to the actual photo sensitive cells.

19 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

This was a strange interview. I lightly know the backstory here but it’s was unprofessional.

I was under the impression that BRAW needed in camera hardware as it was doing something special in camera before outputting it?

I also did some research and found out RED has a broad patent claim on compressed raw, WTF.

That would be like issuing a patent to Budweiser for fermentation.

Yep, I was using compress raw on my Nikon camera before RD one was out. If it is oly for video, then there is a bunch of companies that have come out with their version of compressed raw. I think the Ninja V is the perfect companion to my Z6 for normal or Raw shooting, but as a PC and Davinci resolve user, Prores Raw is a no go for me.

Loosing from whom, from what I can see they still reign supreme in the DSLR market, and they were also doing quite well in the overall mirror-less market with their M50 etc. From the latest market watch I saw that they had like 15-20% FF ML market with the EOSR. That's with only one body. So my conclusion is that it is not today that they will change, you will sill be 2-3 generation behind. Now will the ML hack cure the Jello, my guess not and I am not even talking about reliability and practicality (File size). In  3-6 month Nikon will come out with a solution that will kick the ass of any ML Hack Canon camera. Unless you are deeply invested in Canon glass and this will be a big big brake to you advancing unless you go Cine Line, or you are satisfied shooting 1080p.

So is Canon Raw on EOSR already out? LOL only fools would have believed that, I can't understand how people, more so adult, can be dupe that easily. Its been like 8 years people are wishing and wishing on Canon to do XYZ, to come out with something out-breaking. And every time they just come out frustrated. If you can't understand simple economic principle, that Canon won't jeopardize their Cine line for their DSLR line, you just deserve to be duped. You either move to their Cine line or you have other Manufacturers from Nikon to Black magic etc that are doing so much more.

21 hours ago, John Matthews said:

Great. Sounds like an RX100 full-frame sensor. I wonder when people will say enough is enough. Weren’t people saying that with 4K? 

LOL, people are still think half a stop DR or Low light or more megapixel are going to make their work masterpieces. We have 6k sensor doing 4k images in $ 2000 camera and people are still wasting their times on these.

If there was one other camera to add to the z6  for me it would be the P4K. For me the big difference is that I have Nikon lens, FF and mostly the autofocus/stabilisation. These thing are life changing in reportage style of shooting.

I hope Blackmagic release a NInja V type of recorder, with raw hdmi recording and BM Raw. Prores Raw on Ninja 5 is useless for me and my Z6, as I use PC and Davinci. This years's NAB for now looks a bit lacking in terms of news, at least until now.

I don't see anyone embracing RAW like Nikon, its no coincidence that they all have professional broadcast or cinema camera line to protect. For many years everyone has been saying that it was strange that Nikon did not go all out on video as they had no other product line to protect. I think this is what we are living now. More so that everyone has a full set of cameras at different price point etc and giving FF raw at 2k would cannibalism a lot of there product line.

21 hours ago, rarp said:

You are right, I like very much the look of the Zeiss 85

So, in order to record high quality codecs like prores, the recorder can have access to a higher bitrate than the camera itself can record?

Yes, I know about lightroom and its dislike for xtrans sensors. Until some time ago, I have been using a Fuji X pro1 and switched to using capture one for the raf files. And I remember the mushy details were a little bit tricky to sharpen. But probably things have evolved also in the last few years.

The camera output an uncompressed HDMI signal that the recorder records in the codec and bitrate of your choice from 8 bit to 10 bit.

I hope it is a vloggers type of camera. That is a Nikon z6 with a normal (consumer) body, with a fully articulating screen. For photo same Nikon z6 sensor with slower FPS and SD card. For video same as z6 without RAW, I could also live without external 10 bit as a backup to the z6. Nikon really need to get into the hybrid vloggers market, and you don't get into it with a 2k camera and 600 usd lens and 150 XQD card. They should release at least a kit lens like a 24 (28) -105 f 3.5-5.6.

On 2/18/2019 at 12:44 PM, Geoff_L said:

Yes, correct, no ibis on the xt2, but I relied on the 18-55 OIS to add a bit of stab. From what I remember, the distortion auto-correction was incriminated in a lot of forum speculations. But, as you wrote, it may be something running in the background.
Concerning the z6, I have just read on dvxuser a guy who seems to get rid of the wobbling by setting IBIS to "sport". I'm gonna test this today with the 24-70. I'm testing right now with the 50 1.8g adapted via ftz, and it seems to be less jittery/jumpy, but I will confirm that later buy reviewing on my computer.

That's exactly my experience that I reported above. I did it more or less by trial and error. I just switched the thing to sport mode and saw no more wobble and forgot about it until I came back to this thread.