Danyyyel

On 10/6/2020 at 12:48 PM, Geoff CB said:

I really hope Nikon does not let me down here. If this camera doesn't come with N-log or 10-bit internal (At 30p, don't even need 60p) I'm probably moving away from Nikon. I'm not staying with a company that clearly will never be ahead of the video curve, plus all my Nikon lenses can be adopted to Sony. 

I am all about getting internal log and 10bit, but to say that Nikon will never be ahead of the video curve is exaggerated when they where the first to give full frame 10bit 2 years ago. Even if it was external, you could get it with a device that's smaller than an actual flash. Now its only two years later than Sony and Canon are giving it to you. Nikon was also the first to give the first ML raw video output, unfortunately for me BMD and Atomos are in a commercial war and Davinci doesn't work with Prores raw. Which is not their fault.  Today's Z6 is still a very very good video camera and hopefully the z6ii put's it again at the top.

7 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

XQD only = DOA, just like the current cameras. Hopefully they learned their lesson and will offer SD as well. I would have tried a z6 with the crazy cheap used prices if I didn’t have to buy an overpriced card that’s single camera specific. I really dig the ergos and the lenses, plus I could have adapted the 28, 58 and 105 1.4’s. Now that I have the a7s3 it’s a missed opportunity for Nikon. I hope it does well, but like Panasonic’s feeble attempt at a competent FF system, it’s probably too little too late when you look at Sony’s ecosystem and the R5/6. 

chris

So by the rumors it seems that it will definitely have a second card SD slot. The first objective in these new camera was to fix what most have been complaining about, that is dual card slots and true grip. I think these will sell very well at least to Nikon users that have not moved because of dual card slots etc. I am very encouraged since the z6 launch they have added so much to the Z6 in firmware update.

1 hour ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Hoping they bring internal 10-bit and would prefer to see BRAW over prores RAW, to be honest, as I don't use a Mac / Final Cut Pro.

My panasonic S1 is a really nice video camera, but it is big and heavy and using it on a gimbal is kind of a pain. Also, you have to go external if you want 4K 60p in 10-bit 😞 There is MAYBE a chance that with a firmware update the S1 will have 4K 60p 10-bit internal, since the S5 has it.

Panasonic lenses are expensive, especially if you are only a stills shooter, but the minimal focus breathing and the parfocal performance is really good. And being able to switch to linear focus and to adjust the amount of rotation necessary to change focus from MFD to infinity is GREAT!!!. So expensive if used as a stills lens, but inexpensive if used as a cinema lens. 

Don't know if the Nikon lenses are that capable or not. If so, i could easily see getting a Z6 II. I thought the original Z6 was a "close but no cigarette" camera.

I am in the same boat as you, I hope they pare with black-magic to be able to use their recorder. This situation of the BM vs Atomos is a bit ridiculous, I also don't understand how what can be called the industry standard grading software cannot use PRORES raw. I hope big studio's start to put some pressure on BM. As for Nikon they have devised all there Z lens for video from the start, so no noise and breathing, but linear focusing at least in the very good 24-70 F4 is not as with manual lens. Now all there lens are firmware up-gradable, perhaps in the future. They are somehow stellar, Nikon is showing how using the biggest mount and shallowest flange distance is paying dividen. Even the kit lens are phenomenal.

3 hours ago, herein2020 said:

Good to see Nikon still trying...how many feet do they have in the grave 1 or both? Nothing about Nikon feels like they will survive this one.

Nikon has about 20% last year, about the same as Sony Market share last year while Panasonic and Fuji had like 4-5% each. Nikon also sold 280 000 FF z6 and z7 last year, which is very solid for 2k+ cameras. So my guess, only Canon will survive, you should stop listening to fail photographers/videographers predending to be expert on youtube.

22 minutes ago, Phil A said:

I'm mostly interested if it'll get 10bit log internal at least up to 2160p30. It could be the ideal compromise between Sony A7 III (great af, bad codec, great lens options, bad EVF/screen) and Panasonic S5 (great image, bad af, weak lens ecosystem) in the mid price segment of hybrid cams, especially with the TechArt adapter that opens the E mount lens options for it.

I hope they give 10 bit to all format, from 4k 60 to  1080 120p. My dream would be they give even cropped or time limited 4k 120 fps. I love the 120 fps even a minute would be enough. I can't understand people saying they need to shoot 30 minutes 120 fps.

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/zcountdown.page

So Nikon has launched a timer and in two weeks we will know not about mid life upgrade in the S designation but a second Gen Nikon Z6ii and Z7ii. I post below what Nikon Rumors posted as possible specs. So it was before Nikon confirmed a 2.0 model and not S. It is quite interesting because as an S update the changes where quite big, so now it is more in line. For video we see 4k 60 fps 'More new video features'. My guess as it is 2.0 version, I am a bit optimistic that we will get 10 bit and log internal. Even if they are using same sensor, which is debatable as same megapixel doesn't mean necessarily exactly same sensor. As they state faster shooting speed it could be a faster version which would be good in video for less rolling shutter. 

Now what I would like them to do for the z6, without being out of this world spec, is to give the full sensor 6k raw video readout for external recording at least for 24 to 30p. It would put the z6 again at the top of the ML cameras. Because it already has great IBIS, viewfinder and tracking for video. Some more and higher choice of bitrate would be great. My guess they will at least double the bitrate from 150 mbit 4k 30 p to 300 mbit for 4k 60p. But at least these 300 mbit are also available for 24 to 30p 4k and any slowmotion mode. Those 2x Expeed processor is also a strong indicator that they want to be aggressive for AF etc. If they do all the above they will lack only 4k 120p compared to the A7s3 and Canon R5 but for 1000-1500 less, which would be very competitive.

https://nikonrumors.com/2020/09/25/updated-rumored-nikon-z6s-and-z7s-camera-specifications-2.aspx/

The new models could be called Z6 II and Z7 II instead of Z6s and Z7s (still not sure)

Incremental update to the current Z6/Z7 models

The camera shape is almost the same as Z6/Z7

Same sensor as in the Z6/Z7

Same EVF as Z6/Z7 (previous rumors indicated EVF with 5.76 million dots, the current Z6/Z7 have EVF with 3.69 million dots)

Improved AF (Face/eye/animal detection)

Dual EXPEED processor

Will use the new Nikon EN-EL15c battery

USB power

Dual memory card slots: CFexpress and SD (XQD/CFX type B, SD-UHS-II)

Faster frame rate

More buffer memory

4k 60p video

More new video features

Improved user interface

Support for vertical grip with release button/controls (optional accessory)

Improved functionality expected with firmware update after release

The expected announcement is around October

The Nikon Z6s will be the last Nikon camera with a 24MP sensor

Higher prices than the current Z6 ($1,797) and Z7 ($2,497) models

On 7/22/2020 at 3:58 PM, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

Z6, yeah, probably. If Nikon enable 4k60 in the Z6s, probably not.

The case is that I don't think that Z6 and Z7 sells very well - z5, even canibalizing the Z6, could finally bring more people to Z mount.

But for stills, yeah, the z5 is VERY compelling.

Last year Nikon shipped 280 000 FF camera with only the Z6 and Z7 which are very solid numbers. More so that these two models had critical flaws for a big chunk of the Nikon buyers which is dual card slots. This is why all the new models are coming with dual card slot. There was push from many photographers (many event, wedding ones) to only move now to ML because of the dual card slot z5. This was before the rumors of the z62, z72.

On 7/23/2020 at 10:23 AM, Django said:

Competing on the bottom segment against a 5 year old crap camera like the A72 is certainly not an achievement.

The EOS RP can currently be purchased on blowout price  for under $800. Now that’s a steal in that particular segment.

At $1400 the Z5 isn’t a cheap camera. For $400 more you can get an A73 with no crop 4K and log.

Furthermore, Nikon who is already severely lagging behind its competition in sales really needs more innovative products than a cut down Z6 at entry level and a minor updated Z6S on the high end If they wanna remain relevant and afloat.

What a load of crap, as said before this camera won't stay at 1400, it is at 1300 (body only) now on Amazon, price with different bundle has been between 1250 to 1300, with heavy discount on lens ftz adapter, cards etc. And by the way you can also have for 400 more the Z6 with actual 10bit to raw video. This thing is a baby Z6 with same viewfinder that trounce all the Sony camera until the latest A7s3, Beter IBIS, magnesium  body (go and watch how good the construction of the Nikon Z cameras) and I am not comparing it to a 2016 Sony but to the current A73, which the Z5 beats handily. You look like those people that compare cameras on spec sheets. For now their is zero competition to the Z5 in what is a 1300 and by Christmas 1200 to 1250 FF camera.

On 7/23/2020 at 12:32 PM, Django said:

It isn’t about being a gear snob but rather pushing things forward rather than backwards.

1.7x crop in 2020 is a joke and hence you can’t even consider that a real FF-category camera. 
 

It’s a FF stills, worse than APS-C vidéo hybrid.

I’m all for pushing the price down but not at the expense of crippling features.

Again the Z5 at $1500 naked, $1800-$2100 with the crappy zoom kits isn’t by any means a bargain in my book.

This camera is DOA as far as I’m concerned and there is nothing snobbish about that as I consider cheaper cameras to be of better value.

LOL people always look at their needs as something sacred, just to be polite. That Z5 is lower cost than some APSC cameras, rendering the 1.7 crop about same size as APSC sensor size in 4k. Nikon did not go back, they are giving people a full featured FF camera for the price of  APSC ones. Its a primarily FF great photo camera with 4k apsc video for about same price as APSC cameras. A photographer that does some video, it is much better than those apsc cameras,

I really like my DJI osmo action, with firmware update it has really become a very nice action camera.

On 8/7/2020 at 5:17 AM, Robert Collins said:

Sony is not really in the business of selling 'cameras' but 'image sensors' - a business they dominate and until recently couldnt make enough of (smartphones now often have 5 image sensors when 10 years ago they had 1 or 2.)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-23/sony-can-t-make-image-sensors-fast-enough-to-keep-up-with-demand

The camera business is simply a halo product for this business where they can show off their latest tech and be at the forefront of this business. The camera business doesnt really have to make money itself if it is promoting their image sensor business. Their strategy has been incredibly successful judging from their share price....

 

....in marked contrast with someone like Canon....

 

So I dont think Sony's camera business will be disappearing anytime soon....

You know how having a camera business makes Sony sensor business much harder. I am sure they have to go through all types of loops, NDA and contracts to make sure not to loose business. Sony camera business is like 4% of the overall Sony revenue while the Sensor business is like 19% from last I saw. One they are in an ever diminishing market and the other a leader in an ever bigger one. I don't see Sony staying beyond five years in the camera business.

While Nikon camera account for 30%+ of its revenue and what many don't know of one of Japan biggest Mitsubishi Keiretsu with one of its main shareholder the biggest bank in Japan. Another thing imbeciles (not you I am saying) on youtube etc don't know, Nikon has still been profitable until Covid19. It's profits fell but R&D rose a lot during the last 2 years and I think it is obvious with the Z camera and nearly 15-16 lens in 2 years, and stellar ones at it. In 5 years I see Canon, Nikon and perhaps Fuji, 3 historical players in the photo business. Big corporation don't keep under-performing business for long, more so with a big recession post Covid19.

Do people think that Sony or even Panasonic will stay in this market for long. Just look at the graph, do you think giant company like Sony are going to stick to like (I read somewhere) 5% or less for a side business that is going even further down. My guess in Max 5 years Sony and Panasonic will have moved from the MILC market, while the historic camera manufacturers will still continue into a post digital era camera market. Which will comprise of enthusiast and professional that will renew their camera every 3 to 5 years.

7 minutes ago, Super8 said:

What was the later footage shot at?  The footage with the relay hand offs, not graded? 

Nice work.

I duplicated the post, can you give me the timing. I mean they were all in flat and the slowmo was the 120 fps with the 24-70 f4.

1 hour ago, gethin said:

I think we need to compare settings and bodies.  Mine is so far away from being excellent it's not funny. 

I promise, I never intended to continue talking about the Z6 on this Sony thread, but I was doing a little video to show a bit my experience with the z6 and about autofocus, so I remember about a last year shoot during some games I did for a TV channel  and then the second one was for a project I already posted about for a community farm I did for a friend.

So in the first video its just a small piece where I am not even holding the camera and I just gave it to another friend and setting up another camera and they were just playing. It was with the older Nikon F 1.8 afs and at 1.8 to 2 and I was quite surpised with it because it is super shallow and moving fast. I left where he left the frame and it focus back and he moves in again but I can understand it does not focus again  as he barely features, might be too close to focusing distance or could have changed the setting not too move too fast. The second one is like athletes running flat out at the camera and on the side with very busy background etc. Its not easy conditions as you can see there is people around me and in my field of view etc. Sometimes it was even raining and with dark skin (I am brown myself) people it is harder with white sky behind etc. For me those two are quite torture test and even the older running ones on the old sensor did very well for me. The olor is some lut I just slapped , one just contrasted and others are just flat out of the camera. I left all the imperfection so people can see I am not just like cherry picking shots

29 minutes ago, Super8 said:

Sure we can compare settings.   A few other love the camera and have no issue with Z6's AF.  

I promise, I never intended to continue talking about the Z6 on this Sony thread, but I was doing a little video to show a bit my experience with the z6 and about autofocus, so I remember about a last year shoot during some games I did for a TV channel  and then the second one was for a project I already posted about for a community farm I did for a friend.

So in the first video its just a small piece where I am not even holding the camera and I just gave it to another friend and setting up another camera and they were just playing. It was with the older Nikon F 1.8 afs and at 1.8 to 2 and I was quite surpised with it because it is super shallow and moving fast. I left where he left the frame and it focus back and he moves in again but I can understand it does not focus again  as he barely features, might be too close to focusing distance or could have changed the setting not too move too fast. The second one is like athletes running flat out at the camera and on the side with very busy background etc. Its not easy conditions as you can see there is people around me and in my field of view etc. Sometimes it was even raining and with dark skin (I am brown myself) people it is harder with white sky behind etc. For me those two are quite torture test and even the older running ones on the old sensor did very well for me. The olor is some lut I just slapped , one just contrasted and others are just flat out of the camera. I left all the imperfection so people can see I am not just like cherry picking shots

9 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

+ even if hollywood graders are able to turn it into something beautifull, it will take them a lot more time then grading something from arri. Time is money as well. 

Yep exactly, time is money. If you are just doing some pet project that is good but when you have to work on schedule more so on long form project it can become tedious.

5 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

 

Yes that might be true, but the people shooting with these cameras are not hollywood level colorists, so an good colour science straight out of a cam is important for most users. A lot of shooters just drag and drop luts on their footage, hence the shitty footage of the a7s iii online atm.

Exactly, when you work from a solid base it is much easier for the average user to get it right. That's what people don't understand, not everyone are hollywood level colorist. That is why you see so many criticism about skin tone etc. even from supposed professional shooters. I mean those you-tube influences are supposed to be above average shooters. And that is why you should not single out that one very nice video or shooter, because are you as good as him?

28 minutes ago, ade towell said:

Believe me I don't vote for the fuckers who are in at the moment but that still doesn't explain why Canon and Sony hike their European prices up way more than Panasonic for example

At least you have great healthcare, paid vacations and not have to be embedded for life to have some quality education LOL. But in this case they are sure exagerating for those prices and it is Canon and Sony who are to blame.

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

I'd be very interested in seeing any links you've got for the great reviews of any of these Sigma Z mount lenses.

Meanwhile, here is the Sigma CEO saying that they haven't decided whether they will actually make any.

Have I missed something ?

 

I don't know for sigma, but I know that Tamron is doing it.  There latest lens work well on the FTZ also. The FTZ is quite seamless as an adapter because it is Nikon to Nikon. It is not like those Techart adapter which have to reverse engineer lens. But there is incompatibility with older lens, but those that work, work very well.

https://nikonrumors.com/2020/06/16/tamron-rep-confirms-mirrorless-lenses-for-nikon-z-mount-are-under-development.aspx/

In the end it is just a question of Markets. As more and more Z camera are sold the different lens manufacturers sees and opportunity or not. For now it is easy also for those that already have nikon F mount version to wait as it more or less works seamlessly with the FTZ adapter.

Its all a question

I have to add, I had to add motion to the footage at the start when he talks because at a certain moments another friend who deputize to help foot touched the camera. There was no more shoots to choose from because camera and us will get wet with rain. It is that friend, knowing nothing about how to use the camera that was holding it in the shots at the end.  I had the second z6 with the 24-70 f4 to shoot larger.

1 hour ago, Trek of Joy said:

Will they function as well as E-mount adapters that already exist? Will speedboosters for all those lens mounts be made? Who knows since everything has to be reverse engineered? Plus there will be no Zeiss, Tamron or Sigma lenses for the Zed mount anytime soon. I'll stick with the known quantity for now and reassess in a couple years when their next gen cameras are out and the lens lineup is more comprehensive with (hopefully) 3rd party support.

I'm not buying into a system for what it may become at some undetermined point down the road - especially when I like the E-mount lens options available right now and most of the best have been around long enough to fall into really great prices on the used market.

Chris

Don't understand at all, in theory their could be speed boosters for MF lens, but why, isn't full frame already shallow enough. Nikon even have the 58 mm 0.95 NOCT. You already have a ton of adapters from Nikon Z mount and Nikon has the FTZ adapter that give you access to a ton of Nikon Fmount lens and all the compatible Zeiss etc.  https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=zeiss nikon&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma

Nikon own Z lens are from extremely good to exceptional, but more for autofocus than manual focus as they are fly by wire. In fact for myself I intend to buy a set of Nikon AFS lens, I already used the 50 1.8 and it worked super good even with autofocus. I must get a 35 and 85 mm. I already got some older lens that will be pure manual focus. I did this video for a friend crowd funding project for a organic community farm to help people in the tourism industry impacted by the virus. This is like a teaser, he is the guy at the start and 1.45 . These were done with AFS 1.8 the rest were done with the Nikon Z 24-70 f4S, it was done very fast because weather was not good during the 2 days we shot s seen in the drone shot at the start.

2 hours ago, Eric Calabros said:

Very unlikely. Nikon tends to pay the least amount of money for license fees. 

You mean the company that gave us first FF 10 bit video and then Prores RAW?

4 minutes ago, Super8 said:

Is that your footage?  Good work if so.

My prediction for Nikon is 4K60p 10bit internal.   120p external and full sensor readout RAW external.    They already have great AF in photo's and video.  They already have great color science and great glass. 

 

 

Yes it is mine, I mean there are some grading in these shots, but nothing big. What people that don't understand skin tone (Worked a lot in hotel industry here and have my fare share of burned, pink, violet skin etc) when you put that under the blazing sun here it is brutal. I always say if the guy who said golden hour stayed here, he would say golden 20 minutes, so harsh is the light.

From the rumor it is expected to give 4k 60p, but I don't know for the rest. I sincerely hope that they at least give internal 10bit and log and higher bitrate with that. The best case scenario, if they actually want the z6 to still retain perhaps the best hybrid camera (Yes it is up there) is to give the full 6k sensor readout and at least burst, like 2-3 minutes 4k 120 fps because beyond all the overheating talk nowadays, I don't see it practical to shoot long period of 120fps footage because afterward it is a pain in editing. They have the sensor, very nice ergonomic, viewfinder and ergonomics, the color science, motion cadence etc... Just give full sensor RAW at least to 30 p. I do reportage for a very well known News network, so even where about 25 minutes. But my final aim is always narratives. And in narratives slowmotion is secondary.

I have other footage I have worked on, I should post, but I think on another treat. If I had time i would do some tutorial and experience on the z6, because I really like this camera and I can't understand the slack it gets. I mean, I am so fedup with those bias guys who give all type of excuse for Sony and will trash all the other cameras. Even if I don't use it, you can get FF RAW video with great AF, IBIS, viewfinder, rear touch screen etc for 2k body (including the $200 firmware) + 600 Atomos.

10 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I've used the Z6 before. Isn't that updated firmware though? My point was upon release not firmware updates. Camera companies release unfinished cameras and then people complain about bad reviews. 

Nikon is definitely on my radar, just not atm when its lacking internal 10 bit. They did fuck up pretty bad IMO saying the camera would do RAW and then discovering you have to send in the body to them to get it installed. 

Did you use it, for me it was appropriate because until the D850 (dx camera d500) we never had the best AF system in mid to high megapixel general purpose camera. Again shoot with a d850 and compare that to any Sony bare the A9. For sure it does not have full frame coverage and eye AF. That is why the Z Af was better for me as I don't shoot birds in flight. But guess what the Sony's were great when they added eye, animal AF and timelapse (present since at least 7 years on Nikon cameras) But Nikon unfinished when they released there firmware update...

https://alphauniverse.com/stories/firmware-update-brings-time-lapse--real-time-eye-af--animal-eye-af-to-sony--7r-iii---7-iii/

17 hours ago, Super8 said:

Nikon is hardly drunk and passed out.  They produced a better camera than anything Sony has released so far (the A7S3 is not out yet).  This tells you how far Sony brainwash has seeped into the cine world.  You can't argue AF / No AF or BM IR pollution / color science and then give Sony a free pass on everything above.  People talk about Nikon full sensor read out Pro Res RAW external and get caught up in line skip binning / recording to Atomos or whatever but then Sony gets a pass on external RAW. We talk about image quality, color science and Sony gets a pass. You can't always fix Sony color, in fact you can't fix Sony color.  Sony does not produce a NR FREE, sharpened FREE cinematic moving image.  Sony does great PR and marketing and this is evident in the You Tube producers that we dismiss but now look to for reassurance that the Sony A7S3 is better than the Canon R5 because it records longer before over heating.  Everyone has forgot the R5 does 8K RAW internally.  At the end of the day the best produced image wins. 

Exactly, they are just brainwashed by their youtube gods. The latest on is that guy called Undone. I call him the pink guy before all his new found fame. I mean I would never present myself with such colors, when he just not well shave he looks like a drunk with the colors he has graded himself. The guy who tells you not to take into consideration that the Sony overheats.... While it factually does. I am fed up about youtube shooters that are some kind of like of authority now while they never venture outside of their basement studios. I mean I remember all the fuss about Nikon 4k RAW video being less detailed than the 4k (6k down scaled to 4k), so what about charts that show clearly that the A7s3 is much less detailed than the S1H for example?