Danyyyel

18 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

I'm with you. Still waiting for that unicorn to appear, for a brief second the R5 was it and I had one that would have been delivered Thursday. Then it literally went down in flames. Given that we really won't see anything significant for another couple of years now that Canon has gone all-in with the R5/6, Nikon is drunk and passed out with the rumored Z6s/7s, all Sony has left is the a7IV which will be hit with the cripple hammer compared to the a7s3, and nobody else is making significant headway - I've accepted the fact that the one camera hybrid solution isn't happening anytime soon. One body will shoot mostly stills, one mostly video, lots of lens changes, and lots of damn sensor swabs since Sony's 3rd/4th gen cams attract dust like no other camera I've used. Holy shit the a73/a7r3's are a dust magnet compared to the a7r2/s2 I carried across six continents!

Anyway, needing to go two cameras means I've ordered the a7s3 and I'm now looking to shift my a7r3 to a a7r4 so AF and accessories are mirrored (pun intended) between the two with grips, underwater housings and so on. This will cover me for the next 2-3 years until someone gets it right in the next round of updates.

Cheers

Chris

What, have you ever used a z6, I mean just hold it and looked not at those small pixelated display but its viewfinder. I mean, just this makes it a complete different experience. The day I just hold and looked at an A73, I said wtf is all the hype about this toy, do people hold these cameras, or they have to rig the hell out of it for it to be usable. My Z6 (even a little bit too small for me) is just a joy to use, even compared to full pro body like my D810 . I mean I can control nearly everything from my right hand and never leave the viewfinder. The IBIS and very very good video autofocus have people confused if I am shooting video or photo because with those two, I can nearly shoot without a tripod (needed for good pans)

And what about the image quality, great colors out of the box, great motion cadence, very nice internal codec.

6 hours ago, deezid said:

The ZV-1 and A7s3 look the same, only that the latter has more dynamic range. Since Sony uses the same processing algorithms throughout their alpha cameras since the A7sII why wouldn't it?

Here some examples for the horrible oversharpening (left, also showing aliasing issues) and paint brush like noise reduction with ghosting and smearing (right).

 

The S1H is clearly better here, you can clearly see the pixel steps with the Sony while the Panasonic is completely smooth.

Does AMD radeon do decode h2.65. I know apple uses AMD radeon GPU.

11 hours ago, PabloB said:

I don't believe that's true. Nikon when they released the Z6 it had a ton of sharpening on the image. Sony was in my eyes is just very detailed from the downsampling. Canon with their aggressive AA filter give a nice image feel at the expenses of detail which many like and some don't -  just different philosophies.

That's the problem of listening to youtuber doing 15 minutes test of gear they don't know. On normal picture profile Nikon did a lot of sharpening that you can dial down. On the flat profile it is already down on default sharpness. Nikon is doing a full sensor readout, no crop, that is 6k from all the pixel on the z6, which gives you very good 4k video. Only in RAW output that it skips pixel to achieve 4k from its 6k sensor.

23 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

Yeah I like the nikon colours, but dynamic range is still lacking on nikon cameras (and some usefull features). Maybe they will amaze us with their next camera, but I really doubt it. They have no higher end line to protect, so they could have done this 8 years ago and blew the competition away, but they didnt, so not expecting any miracles from their end.

Where did you find the DR lacking in Nikon's. I mean in some test Nikon Flat profile competes already well with Canon Log profile. I haven't done enough test myself but Nikon log gives you even more DR and highlight Roll off are among the best in the MLC cameras I have seen. What useful features, they have excellent ergonomics, Ibis, viewfinder and construction. What do they miss. For example I was laughting when the leaked BH of the A7S3 came out because the guy was so wow about doing rack focus with the back touch screen. I mean I have been doing it on my Z since it started. By the way, they were the first to give 422 video ot, 10 bit FF camera and even RAW.

17 hours ago, Nezza said:

The test got the exact opposite reaction to the stated preference - by a large margin - go watch the video. It was over 1500 people. I'd say that's indicative. People are fan boys about camera brands - we know this!

The day you give me someone completely independant and a test with  like 20 - 50 images with many skin tone in different lighting condition I will believe it. It is so easy to give bias, as someone who has work a lot with caucasian skin who come on vacation in my tropical island who become red pink under the sun and I have to play with hue of the red to make then more olive green yellow. I am sure Nikon but more so Canon would look less flattering.

12 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

I know I should not compare it to an arri alexa. But dang I just wish these companies could get arri style colour in an affordable package in 2020. The alexa is 10 years old, and these japanese companies dont come anywhere close to its image or colours 10 years later, in tech years thats ages. Sony had great colour on the F35, so not sure why they have not matched it 10 years later.  

I love my Nikon colors, its the closest to the Arri I have found, that is a little greener (not Sony green) that Canon which is a little bit more pink.

On 7/28/2020 at 11:44 PM, herein2020 said:

What part of overheating has to do with specs? You can't even shoot 480p if your camera has overheated. If I cared about specs I would have been interested in the R5 just because it has the larger 45MP sensor. To me dual card slot recording, true hybrid capability (50/50 photo/video), reliability, and AF for gimbal work are more important than specs.

 

Of course maybe you just meant in general at which point I agree with you; if Canon had released reliable 4K120FPS, dual card slot recording, no recording limit time limit, and reliable cut off limits for 4K120fps that were not thermal related I'd have pre-ordered the R5 or R6 (whichever provided this capability). As it stands now, I'm going to sit back and enjoy my 5DIV, C200, and GH5 for at least 2 more years until the dust settles. 

I mean in general, people just want everything from high megapixel, FF, high frame rate in the palm of there hands. At least in todays tech it is impossible. If let's say for example they did a Canon 5D style body, half of the internet would be complaining about that ginormous size, how they can't walk anymore because the camera broke their back. My Z6 is at the limit for me because my little finger barely hold up, I just can't understand how those Sony or even Fuji people use their camera. Nowadays I don't remove my camera cage anymore to have a firm grip.

25 minutes ago, Laurier said:

Because people using a Venice, FX9, C500 Mk II, C300 Mk II usually know what they are doing 😛 .

A lot of youtubers have to clue of how to handle footage, the Highlights are clipping hard on a lot of videos and that not pleasing, but I blame the user, not the camera.

I shoot all those on a A7rii/A7iii and you can get the skin to look nice , it a bit more work than blackmagic but it s possible and that was all on 8 bits codecs internal ( except the anamorphic one), So I m confidant that you can do even better with 10 bits 4.2.2

 

 

Sincerely I don't like the skin tone at all, its again that greenish tint which feels dead, in some motion cadence was .... I don't know if it is your footage or not and in no way wants to be disrespectful.

9 minutes ago, gethin said:

I'm a Nikon shooter. I considered going back to canon briefly there for a bit. But the cynicism of engineering overheating (or at least not bothering to engineer it out) on a $7kaud camera put paid to that.

If I was going to ditch Nikon it would most likely be to Sony: they innovate, they don't hobble their small cameras too badly to protect their cinema line, they have a good range of bodies. (I know their lenses are expensive, but there are other options).

Whilst I love the nikon look, I was out shooting with the z6 yesterday.  I don't love it like I did the d800. It's clunky.  It feels amateurish. The auto focus is pants.  The dynamic range is lacking.  I think I'm ready to move on. It's not me, Nikon, it's you.

I don't know if it is photo or video (I guess photo because the the z6 destroys the d800 in video) but for methe z6 is the most enjoyable Nikon camera I have ever use. I am not a big fan of small small camera as is the norm now, so my cage stays on the camera even when I take photos. I take more videos than photos with the Z6, but at least for my use the eye and face detect and nearly full sensor AF are so much more convenient to use. Last year I did 3 set photography and used the z6 with my D810 and I was surprised that I had no problem switching from the EVf to the OVF. Lastly, with the OVF, two custom buttons and where all the controls are it is the best in terms or ergonomic of any nikon camera. I mean only with my right hand I can control, shooting, ISO,  shutter, Aperture, AF mode, shooting FPS and I can access the quick menu with all the different options for ibis on off, picture profile etc. That without leaving my eye from the viewfinder. Auto focus might not feel snapy because everything is silent (Was disoriented when I first got it) but I feel the dual expeed processor is a sign they really want to put more processing power for faster autofocus and wake time, which is always a bit disorienting coming from an evf. 

17 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

This! 

Why are people so desperate to turn their gear over so quickly when the tool they have is perfectly fine?

I was seriously considering the A7SIII as a B-Cam for the many shoots I do on the FX9 which until now, I have used a Pocket4K for. 

I haven't read anything other than what's on this thread until know but this camera overheats as well? Really?

So, Sony spend three years on this camera making it a video powerhouse and they confine it to a mirrorless body that overheats? Crazy!

I don't know about anyone else here, but I almost never shoot in the rain and when I do, it's easy for me to fashion up a little plastic rain cover over my Pocket4k, FX9, or whatever other camera I'm using.... I do however, shoot in sun and warm temperatures especially when shooting sports stories. I'll take a few ventilation ports and even a small fan over a tiny weather sealed mirrorless body any day of the week, any season of the year!! I can see when it's going to rain and prepare for it, I can't constantly try to keep a camera from overheating when I'm shooting outside. 

Also, I'f you are using a small external monitor, they are not weather sealed anyway so what's the point for us video shooters?

So, I guess I'll stick to the Pocket4K for now. None of the producers I work for seem to have any issues with the colour difference between the FX9 and P4k........no reason to change.

 

You remind me of a shoot I just did last Wednesday, weather was heavy, So I checked every few minutes and then you are focused on the last shot and bang heavy rain. We where already prepared with umbrellas etc, but in 1 minutes everything, so no I am not tradding my 2 z6 for weather sealing. They served me well in my tropical island, I wouldn't want humidity to case problems to my cameras.

2 hours ago, Zeng said:

As much as I love Z6 and have hopes Z6s brings certain improvements, it's going to use same sensor, which means 12 bit ADC. Which gives 12 stops of DR more or less. While mostly this is ok for me, Sony's 16bit output could bring 1-2 additional real stops which is tempting. Hate to say this as I never like Sony cameras. Well, up to now...

I have done my own test years ago and watch a bunch of online test and can't find one which showed significant difference, In fact I would say zero difference between 12 bit raw and 14 bit raw. This is the reason I don't shoot 14 bit raw, I think people are two focused o numbers that go beyond human capabilities. Same for resolution, the 2.8k sensor of the Alexa is still good for big screen, so 4k will be good enough and 8k is beyond ridiculous  at any normal viewing angle. There is a lot of test like these https://photographylife.com/14-bit-vs-12-bit-raw

1 hour ago, David Bowgett said:

All the rumours have been pointing to the Z6S using the same sensor as the Z6, with with an extra Expeed processor, a second XQD slot (probably with CFExpress support out of the box this time), and maybe one or two other design tweaks.

There is one rumor and it is from Nikonrumors. Now these are still vague, same megapixel doesn't mean same sensor. From the same rumor it is doing 60p and has dual xpeed processor. So we clearly don't know if it is the same sensor, the 6 year old Nikon D750 has same FF megapixel but those two sensors are completely different.

1 minute ago, Video Hummus said:

Easily fixed with a 2 second color wheel adjustment. 

Yep, once you get in more difficult light its another story.

3 minutes ago, noone said:

It IS hard to sell it to photographers but I still think it is not really an issue for the vast majority of uses.

I think this will be a much better camera for stills than people are giving credit for.

An a7s with pdaf is a camera made for me (shooting mostly stills and an little though increasing video).

For 1000 usd yes, for 3.500, I don't think so. For half the price you can get very good FF 24 megapixel camera. Everything is not about resolution, but everything start at a certain threshold.

6 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

Well you know what they say opinions are like...

I think it looks really good too.

Cheers

Chris

For me just the preview image says a lot. Its has that greenish color I and many don't like which under more chalenging light (here it is golden afternoon light) gives that zombies skin tone.

5 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

A video from Bloom shot with ProRes raw and the Ninja V. 

 

What a waste of space hahahaha

Looked at it again, in fact no as much as a waste because was able to look at colors and skintones, not very impressed.

29 minutes ago, Super8 said:

Except for Canon I think Sony and Nikon have really good cameras coming out.  

My best take is Nikon gives us 4K120p out at a higher quality than the A7s3 and better 4K60 internal also. 

I think the dual processors will take the load off the sensor and I don't think Nikon will have heat issues.   Nikon will use HDMI to the Atomos when it's needed.   The Nikon workflow out to the Atomos and I'm fine with that if they give better quality and more options with external recording.

 

 

I would love that, but I don't think so for 2 reason which are price and size. The Nikon Z6s will be max 2200 at lauch and I think today you can't build a bigger camera if you are not beaten to death by the size brigade. The 2 card slot made the z5 2 mm higher than the Z6, with dual card slot I expect CFexpress/SD I expect it might be even a little bigger but not as much as would be necessary for continuous 4k 120p. This is a refresh so I think price will be still very good. So you will get a super good Hybrid camera with very very good video and photo for about half the price of the R5 and A7r3. A very reliable tool, with pristine build quality and ergonomics. I laugh today when I saw the BH guy doing rack focus with the back screen of the Sony today. I mean I thought it was standard in every Hybrid camera. The viewfinder is also another thing.

2 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

I'm not complaining at all. I said it was a solid release. But if you don't think these features will be matched, if not beaten, in the next year or so, I'm not sure what to tell you.

And until Atomos comes out with an affordable recorder that can record it, hardly anyone is going to be able to use 16 bit RAW, and frankly most folks don't need 16 bit RAW.

Not everything has to be viewed as super positive, or super negative. This is a fine release, but talk of it "Crushing" this camera or that camera is silly. 

Low light has barely progressed during the last 5 years. Show me big progress like 1-2 stop the last 5 years for same sensor size or photo-sites? and I mean in RAW and not processing power that use noise reduction.

2 hours ago, Super8 said:

I actually think Nikon has the advantage of making the Z6s sit between the R5 and A7SIII.  

It also seems like RAW externally over HDMI was a thermal issues as much as a rights issue.   I don't see anything in the A7SIII that the Z6s can't do. 

I sincerely hope that we will get internal 10 bit and log. What is a given is that we are getting dual card slot and 4k 60 fps. It would be a dream to get 120 fps, even if it is time limited 1 to 5 mins or even cropped. What would also set it apart would be to just give the full 6k raw out of the sensor even only in up to 30 fps mode. But with the dual expeed processor they are putting how much thermals will limit the camera.

3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Nobody, or almost nobody, will be buying an a7Smk3 primarily for photography as their main camera. 

The few primary photographers who'd be buying an a7Smk3 would be people like these examples:

1) professional photographers who are picking this up as their back up 2nd (or even 3rd/4th) a7 series body (thus 12 megapixels is plenty in your back up body), and are dabbling in video too. (for which this would be perfect!)

2) real estate phographers (or anybody else, who is dealing in a very high volume of low margin photos, thus lower megapixels is not a negative, and might even be a positive), and who at lest dabble in videography as well. 

I was responding to someone who said pixel shift could make it the perfect hybrid camera because it would deal with the low rez photos and I said it would never be the case. This is primarily a video camera with some photo capabilities.

42 minutes ago, Yurolov said:

The real problem is that it doesn't even surpass products that have already been on the market for quite a while. 

The s1h surpasses it in many respects.

For example, a7siii might have the following flaws: crap ergonomics, crap ibis, crap color, no autofocus with external recording, heat management issues in hot weather and associated recording limits, crap weather sealing, less DR, less video shooting modes, less megapixels for photo mode, less detail in 4k, crap preamps (as with a7iii), less reliable, etc.

But its benefits are 4k60p and 120p and autofocus (which most pros don't rely on).  

Its just a bit meh. 

I am a pro and my Z6 autofocus was a life changing tool for me. Last year I was on course to buy a black magic pocket camera as a secondary camera. After using the Z6 for 6 month, I chose another z6 because of the autofocus. Appart from narrative film who uses  manual focus. I mean working on film sets, I think most people fantasies on that and don't know the reality of it. I mean every alexa has 3 person working on each. The DP or second cameraman, both having their first assistant who does focus pulling, both of them having wired follow focus and external screen and a second assistant for everything else.  I mean which production apart from feature films does that. Because the professional world is not only narratives, in fact it is less than 1% of professional video work. Pro work is also news, sport, weddings, events, reportage and documentaries. The last 2 were perhaps a bit more manual focus, but believe me with the knid of autofocus we are getting now, everyone wants to shoot with autofocus.

My Z6 with its very underrated video autofocus can do so much things and for the rest it is just assumptions. It seems from the video that at least it is better for ibis etc... For me if the future Z6s has internal  10 bit log and 60p 4k and even time limited 120 fps, I would be in heaven. So I hope Nikon is forced to do that with Canon and Sony coming out with it.

44 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

Was just expecting way more. This is just competing with the S1H that is already released a year ago, you would think they would crush the S1H. People are still wondering now if they should get an A7S III or an S1H, then its a sad release for me. Hopefully some good news will follow soon. Looks like the ump 12K is by far the most interesting camera this year (not talking about the resolution). 

Does the S1H does FF 60 or even 120 FPS?

28 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

This is a solid release for people already invested in the system BUT it does kinda feel like Sony is just finally catching up and there's a chance this release will look dated pretty quickly. 

Someone really needs to have a heart to heart with Panasonic about AF, because all of these companies have left the door open for them. Canon tried to shut it (I think?), but that was an unmitigated disaster, but after this release its still open, I think. 

So you need more that 16 bit RAW FF video??? I bet in the next 4 years it will be still the best low light camera. I am a Nikon user and I love my Nikons, but I don't expect anyone to go and build a 12 megapixel FF camera soon. I don't understand those people that only complain, My guess is that Panasonic MLC line will already be dead before they put on sensor pdaf.

25 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

https://www.eoshd.com/news/sony-a7s-iii-is-here-sensible-update-but-not-as-revolutionary-as-hoped-plus-tough-competition-from-panasonic-s1h/

I wouldn't say it was either underwhelming, or fantastically exciting. The 4K/120p 10bit mode looks great. Other than that it seems to be lots of sensible evolutions in all areas that add up to a very usable professional tool.

The combination of features does take some beating. To have that new 10bit codec, continuous 4K 120p, good thermal management, great big high-res EVF, new menus, along with the latest Sony phase-detect AF, does appeal to a lot of people, whereas in comparison the EOS R5 looks like a bit of a broken toy to be honest, with the silly fan strapped to the back.

Sony clearly have a better processor than Canon and better engineering know-how to avoid heat limitations in 4K/120p and 10bit.

I do like the new hybrid SD / CFExpress type A card slots too. The very fast media is barely any larger than UHS II SD.

However, part of me thinks it will be a bit uninspiring to pick up and shoot with. Like all Sonys are.

The new menus look ugly, and all it really seems to amount to is putting the tabs at the side rather than at the top. Fuji's and Panasonic's menus look a lot better.

The playback thumbnails are still dreadful for video clips.

And it remains to be seen what the live-view quality is like and whether it makes use of the 9 million dot EVF and what the focussing aids are like. Is peaking still a fuzzy mess?

I am not a Sony user, but I don't know what are the expectation for people. I mean this camera is better technically than any DSLR or mirrorless camera in term of specs for video. it's 12 megapixel will provide good 4k which is more than enough for 99.9% of shooting. It also permits such a camera to actually work and not overheat. With FF 10 bit and 422 internal until 120 fps, great DR to exceptional lowlight and autofocus, + it seems it has better ergonomics with flip screen and menu. I can't understand how anyone can be disappointing unless its out of budget for some. As a Nikon z6 user I am not interested in Sony's , I already have great color and ergonomics and supreme image quality. If the z6s had the spec like that or just 10 bit log internal with 60 fps 4k I would be in heaven. For me the as a hybrid shooter the 24 megapixel is more important, so I would not even mind a 1 to 5 minutes 120 fps 4k because who shoots 120 fps 4k for 30 minutes... Just derushing that is like 2.5 hours of 24p!!!