Danyyyel

Now I never thought about shooting RAW, but that BMRAW is intriguing because of the size and from every first hand account and on the net it works very well in davinci resolve. The 12.1 would be about 220-230 mbits, that is insane. The 8.1 would be about 300- 320 mbits which is also very very low.

5 hours ago, herein2020 said:

That is pretty cool, I've never considered BM a viable option for me though, since I shoot 50/50 photos and video.

I am also a hybrid shooter, I own 2 Nikon Z6 but don't know if it can fit into a hybrid shooter because of the external recorder. Now when I think about a recorder like this might be smaller than a Flash.

1 hour ago, Phil A said:

But not everyone wants to massively increase the footprint and weight of his camera by adding an external recorder. For many people, the whole point of shooting with a hybrid camera is the size. I couldn't care less what's available via HDMI out, it needs to be in-camera or I'm not going to use it. I'm clearly not in the minority with that opinion. For 90%+ of users, the new Nikons will be 8bit cameras.

(0% of usser including me are expecting and complaining about 10 bit h264 internal not RAW. I don't understand that obsession about size unless you want to do spy shots. I mean I can shoot RAW video with cameras that is smaller than my last dslr Nikon D750 and a flash on it. In fact I prefer and camera with an external recorder than one with all internal WOW spec that will overhead. In a any narrative, high end commercial and documentary filming where I think RAW can be warranted, those size a ridiculously small. I mean the z6 + ninja V might be barely bigger than a Canon 5d mark ii.  So what has happened those last decade, everyone has become so much older that they can't hold less than a kilogram. 

1 hour ago, SteveV4D said:

I would pay more and actually buy the camera if internal BRAW was available.  I don't expect it tbh.  I know how the World works.  But it would be nice.  Its less a complaint and more a wish.  Dont be so touchy and jump down on wishful thinking comments 

But 90% of the people that buy this camera would complain because the Sony or Panasonic is 500 usd cheaper. From what I saw with the double expeed processor the autofocus is even better for video from a German reviewer. They have also added eye AF for video and 60 fps RAW. I mean I could not have dream of FF raw under 2.4 to 2.7 K 2 years ago. People also have to a bit realistic, when we are talking about external recording. These Z cameras are already much smaller than normal dslr and an atomos V is about same size as a flash. So nowadays we have raw video it about same size as a Nikon d5500 camera and a flash. I work on film set with Alexa's here in my country as set photographer. People should come and see the size of those cameras to have an understanding of how small those mirrorless are compared to normal video cameras.

3 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

Rightly or wrongly, having Braw as external only means Blackmagic still get a cut of the sales because you need the Video Assist. If it was internal, they wouldn't get as much. The 3rd party would probably pay for the rights to the codec, but I'd imagine there's a bigger margin with the VA hardware sales.

It also means people are less likely to go that route. If you don't want the put a monitor on your camera, or want Braw internal, you need to buy a BMD camera, so either way they're getting extra sales.

Exactly, sometimes people don't understand those simple logic. Companies have to do some profits. I am very critical Nikon did not put 10 bit internal in these cameras, I guess they thought as they give you the choice external, and that the 8bit internal is extremely good, people would not bother. But now I see people complaining why it is not internal or $ 200 dollar upgrade. I mean in two years we went from 8bit to 12 bit raw in 2000 usd FF hybrid camera. Largely because of Nikon. It's been like 5 years people have been complaining that we were stuck with 8bit (which is right) and only now that you got the likes of Sony and Canon giving 10 bit etc. and people are still complaining.

3 hours ago, SteveV4D said:

Its great that another camera manufacturer have embraced BRAW; such a shame its Nikon, who have ham-fisted it with a paid upgrade and limited their internal recordings.  Why not simply include this upgrade with the new release?  I'm sure they delay these things a few months to justify charging extra for it.  The S1 did much the same, though I suspect a  last minute change of heart led Panasonic to instead offer it for free for a limited period.  Maybe Nikon will do the same, but I won't hold my breath.  

I have a wish that Panasonic would allow a possible S1H successor to output BRAW.  It would be a great addition and make it worth buying for me, even if the AF is a bit crap.  😄

Sincerely, how can people complain that much I don't understand. I am hyper critical of not putting 10bit but for RAW update how can people complain. The original z6 came out 2 years ago for 2300 USD, the z7 for 3300. Now the new one is 2000 and the z7 2700 usd. It means that for example the z6ii is cheaper, while having 60p 4k and better AF, dual card slot etc than the original one including the firmware update. You are comparing it to the Panasonic S1H  which is 4000 usd. That is twice the price and I don't even know if it has 60 fps RAW.

4 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Nikon have lost the plot.

Raw options appeal to about 7 people on planet Earth whereas internal 10 bit options to around 7 billion.

Great that they wish to offer these things but they need to be competitive in the wider market to survive.

I understand your point fully, but I think this a bit less true since BMRAW. When you look at the bitrate of Braw and from feedback of some friends who work with it and Davinci Resolve, it works very very well. At 12.1 which I saw some test footage is just slightly less sharp than other less compressed version, we are clearly less heavy than normal PRORES. We are closer to H264 compression rate!!!

I was stunned to see this from this article that the two Zii models are to shoot 4k BMRaw at 60 fps with a future firmware upgrade in February for the z6ii and perhaps at launch for the z7ii in december. One thing to remember is that the z6ii shoots with a 1.5 crop (DX) but the Z7 shoots with only 1.1x crop.

https://*banned URL*/nikon-z7-ii-and-z6-ii-raw-support

I have been advocating for Nikon for ages. I am utterly disgusted by this, I hope they are feeling the heat as the backlash seems to be loud online. For me the Z6 is such a wonderful camera and they have so much potential, I just did this video with the Zlog 

The z7 60 fps 4k is 93% of the frame, it is the world upside down at Nikon.

That's the only positive thing I saw today, I cannot even express my disappointment. Blackmagic Raw is coming to the z62 and z72.

For both models, 10-bit output to an external recorder with N-Log is possible as well as the capture of new HDR (HLG) video and output in 12-bit ProRes RAW with the optional upgrade. For upgrade customers, additional support will also be included for Blackmagic RAW when using the Blackmagic Design Video Assist 12G HDR recorder. This upgrade will also be provided for existing customers who have already purchased a ProRes RAW upgrade for the Nikon Z 6 or Z 77.

1 hour ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Thanks for the clarification. I guess I got confused because I was watching dpjourney (he seems to know what he is talking about) and he claimed that "RAW is RAW" but that wouldn't make sense then.

I have been shooting compressed raw on my dslr for more than 10 years because I have seen test between Uncompressed and compressed with no perceivable  difference. My guess it must be close to the same for video RAW.

15 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

The 1080p 120 is so good I'd be happy with that if they gave me it in 10-bit log.

Yep it is so good, even a 3k version of that would be good enough for me. I hope they get creative. Already from leaked pictures there is no full articulating screen. which is a pita but at least it was not leaked.

14 hours ago, gethin said:

someone in the nikonrumors comments said the sensor can only do 40hz in full frame.  Not sure if this is true but if so, rules out 4k 60 FF.  I agree, they shouldn't give it the ii moniker if its a minor update. Urgh! 

After 2 years, they should have asked for a faster one. They have devised a system to read 4k and not 6k from the full sensor for the RAW video, they should have done the same for the the 60 fps. In fact I wouldn't have mind even a 3k 120 fps. The 1080p 120 fps is surprisingly good, at 3k it would inter-cut very well with the 4k mode.

I will be a little disappointed if it is only a 1.7 crop 60 fps 4k. The reason is more about the name, if it was an S update as first stated, yes no problem as a  mid life update. But if it is a 2.0 version and the counter saying the next chapter, they have raised the expectation a lot if it is only that. They are doing a lot of things that should have already been there from the start like dual card slot and true battery grip. The most criticism they got where from the AF (photo) which got much much better with new firmware, dual card slot, the battery grip and shutter blanking in the viewfinder on high speed shooting.

From the list of rumored update, I think with dual expeed processor it will address all the issues that where address from the photo side. If the AF lets say beat the Sony and Canon with the doubling of computational power. My guess is that they will get very good reviews and sale from a lot of Nikon photographers who did not do the switch. As for video, I would be a little bit disappointed for a version 2 update. 10 bit internal would alleviate some of the disappointed , let's see in 3 days. Perhaps if we lobby them afterward, they might implement time limited FF 60p or even 4k. I personally need those frame rates only for slowmotion. A 1-2 minutes burst would be more than enough.

The 4k youtube link.

21 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

I own the Z6, I love it but it has usability problems for video. There is significant delay over the external HDMI, and in the viewfinder itself when shooting in 24p and 30p there is bad delay. 

While these seem like small issues, they are a PITA on actually using it for work.

Is the lag also in the viewfinder, I didn't feel so. I know about the hdmi and thought they decreased it with firmwae, but perhaps I am confusing with another camera.

So I have got the Nikon zlog profile about 6 week ago and since then it has become my go to profile. I personaly love it. I already loved my Z6 as a video camera, but this is even better. I get so much dynamic range and the colors are great. I haven't had time to do comparative test but even in 8 bit internal it is wow. Its anecdotal but the fine noise it produce might break up 8 bit banding also.

So this is my entry for the My Rode Reel contest. Its a 3 minutes documentary and all filmed with 2 z6. I hope it will be sat least selected.  Youtube doesn't do justice to it. There is a link for a 4k version below as this one some part break up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOqyjEfh8aU&feature=youtu.be

My only hope is that the big studios put pressure on BM to implement Prores RAW as Resolve is the number one grading tool.

Forgot the link https://www.dpreview.com/interviews/3679521489/nikon-interview-its-time-to-get-excited?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source#viewComments

Long but also very interesting article, I sincerely hope they do bring really exiting features. The z6 with internal 10 bit and the full sensor 6k raw at 2-2.5k would already be very good. I would just dream like a 120 fps 4k (or even 3k) time limited version. I personally don't need it more than 1 minutes, just for slow motion.

On 10/3/2020 at 3:12 AM, Kisaha said:

Just feel sorry a bit for the early RF and Z adopters. Those cameras were destined to devaluate really fast and really too much.

I don't feel sorry for my 2 z6 purchase at all, when I bought the first one it didn't have things like eye AF, much better autofocus and even raw video. Sincerely the Z have always been full featured while the Canon where really underwhelming. It's not because Sony and Canon just released there first 10 bit camera than Nikon did not offer that 2 years ago.

7 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

H264 supports 10-bit 4:2:2 

Personally I hope they stick to h264, h265 is a nightmare to edit. They should add higher bit-rate also, same as we have different jpeg setting. High bitrate 10 bit h264 would be a dream for 90+of jobs. When I see what you can already do with their 140 mbit codec, it would be both practical and lighter weight.  

On 10/6/2020 at 12:48 PM, Geoff CB said:

I really hope Nikon does not let me down here. If this camera doesn't come with N-log or 10-bit internal (At 30p, don't even need 60p) I'm probably moving away from Nikon. I'm not staying with a company that clearly will never be ahead of the video curve, plus all my Nikon lenses can be adopted to Sony. 

I am all about getting internal log and 10bit, but to say that Nikon will never be ahead of the video curve is exaggerated when they where the first to give full frame 10bit 2 years ago. Even if it was external, you could get it with a device that's smaller than an actual flash. Now its only two years later than Sony and Canon are giving it to you. Nikon was also the first to give the first ML raw video output, unfortunately for me BMD and Atomos are in a commercial war and Davinci doesn't work with Prores raw. Which is not their fault.  Today's Z6 is still a very very good video camera and hopefully the z6ii put's it again at the top.

7 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

XQD only = DOA, just like the current cameras. Hopefully they learned their lesson and will offer SD as well. I would have tried a z6 with the crazy cheap used prices if I didn’t have to buy an overpriced card that’s single camera specific. I really dig the ergos and the lenses, plus I could have adapted the 28, 58 and 105 1.4’s. Now that I have the a7s3 it’s a missed opportunity for Nikon. I hope it does well, but like Panasonic’s feeble attempt at a competent FF system, it’s probably too little too late when you look at Sony’s ecosystem and the R5/6. 

chris

So by the rumors it seems that it will definitely have a second card SD slot. The first objective in these new camera was to fix what most have been complaining about, that is dual card slots and true grip. I think these will sell very well at least to Nikon users that have not moved because of dual card slots etc. I am very encouraged since the z6 launch they have added so much to the Z6 in firmware update.