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New GH Series Cameras (Plural)! Live stream here


Andrew Reid
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10 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

I'm guessing they don't want to pay the licensing fee, so they let Atomos eat that expense and they can reap the "benefit." I just don't understand the logic behind getting these small, lightweight cameras and then putting a recorder on top of it. I'm glad it's an option but it's really not something that I want to deal with. 

My guess is that (to record internal compressed raw) either RED want an exorbitant licence fee or they won't licence it all - unless, like the deal with Canon where they get the RF mount licence, they get something useful for their own cameras in return i.e. it's a cross-licence deal (quite common in terms of patent licencing).

Re. today's other Panasonic announcements, as a G9 user I'm quite pleased it's getting a firmware upgrade to add the latest AF algorithms and the 'red frame' recording indicator from the S5. The GH5s is getting the same update plus raw video output to Atomos (for ProRes RAW).

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Some people seem to be disappointed because there's no mind blowing, stand out upgrade feature. Thrill seekers. If you have a use/need for MFT and have been using a GH5 then this announcement is great news. There are countless things that could be improved to make life better, some that have already been mentioned by others: Dynamic range, bit depth, codecs, data rates, frame rates. If these see improvement I'll be happy. 

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I hope the GH 5 MK II will have:

  • Less lag on the HDMI output.
  • Higher resolution wireless monitoring (1080p) via their app.
  • HDMI monitoring when recording open gate 5.7k.

If you fix these issues and have 10bit 4k 120p, I would consider upgrading.

If I can't effectively monitor what I shoot, where is the joy in using your tools to create my art?

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1 hour ago, Neumann Films said:

IBIS in the GH5 and 10 bit 4K in camera were game changing. There’s nothing here (so far) that is game changing. 5.7k 60 is nice, sure. “Nice” doesn’t spur me to spend money.

I can see your point. We are also up to 6 months away from a potential release and they were clearly teasing that there is more surprises.

I would want to hope those surprises are big ticket items like internal ND or internal RAW or both. I find internal RAW less likely than an internal ND. They seem to be all in on external RAW options.

DFD AF could be workable if they can get it to work at 24/30fps as well as it does at 50/60fps. Hopefully the new processor and faster scanning sensor will allow them to sample more and achieve more accurate adjustments with less pulsing.

There is also no known 24MP MFT sensor from Sony out there at the moment so we don't even really know what sensor they could possible be using.

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2 hours ago, Neumann Films said:

Why do you need to shoot 5.7k instead of UHD? I don’t see the point of all of these cameras that situate themselves within the benchmark standards. If this was an alternate camera to their main line (like the GH5s) then yeah, it makes sense. For the GH6 it just doesn’t do enough differently to justify its place. Especially when you consider what other companies are doing. 
 

IBIS in the GH5 and 10 bit 4K in camera were game changing. There’s nothing here (so far) that is game changing. 5.7k 60 is nice, sure. “Nice” doesn’t spur me to spend money.

I understand what you're saying but there's still very little known about the camera. Maybe they'll surprise us? 

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30 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

I understand what you're saying but there's still very little known about the camera. Maybe they'll surprise us? 

Eh, I don’t know. Panasonic doesn’t seem like that kind of company. They likely teased with the headline specs and left some things out. Never know but...doesn’t make a lot of sense to reveal details about the camera and leave out big things.

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1 hour ago, Neumann Films said:

Eh, I don’t know. Panasonic doesn’t seem like that kind of company. They likely teased with the headline specs and left some things out. Never know but...doesn’t make a lot of sense to reveal details about the camera and leave out big things.

I find it hard to believe that they're going to charge $2500 based only on what they announced today. Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect there will be quite a few features that will help justify the higher price tag. I could be totally wrong though. 

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19 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

I find it hard to believe that they're going to charge $2500 based only on what they announced today. Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect there will be quite a few features that will help justify the higher price tag. I could be totally wrong though. 

I am hopping so too or the GH6 is really gonna be a very niche product. I am thinking it will have at least one new feature to add to the list announced that we haven't seen in any other camera yet to demand that price. Something has to give, or maybe not lol. 

 

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3 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

I find it hard to believe that they're going to charge $2500 based only on what they announced today. Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect there will be quite a few features that will help justify the higher price tag. I could be totally wrong though. 

There are many more specs to tease out, DR being a major one. They did the same thing with the GH5: the development announcement had a few enticing features to get people excited and their wallets ready, then the full announcement dished out all the goods.

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Since the organic sensor has obviously failed to show up this time, it would be good if they did something extraordinary for sensor dynamic range (precisely because of the smaller sensor size and fast enough readout). For example, pushing the dual ISO technology to instead make two separate (tone mapped) pixel exposures within the same frame as a standout and unique MFT feature. 

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19 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

I'm guessing they don't want to pay the licensing fee, so they let Atomos eat that expense and they can reap the "benefit." I just don't understand the logic behind getting these small, lightweight cameras and then putting a recorder on top of it. I'm glad it's an option but it's really not something that I want to deal with. 

I own the BMMCC which is tiny but becomes larger than a 1DX when you put a monitor on it, so I bought the BMPCC OG just because of the overall size.  The GH5 is great in that regard because of the EVF, which adds little size but makes it usable in almost any conditions, unlike the BMPCC.

19 hours ago, Towd said:

I think it just adds flexibility in post. 

You can sample the full image down in post to a 4k image, or you can do a 1:1 pixel center extraction of a 4k image.  Or you can reposition your 4k image and pan and scan inside the 5.7k camture.  Or you can apply post stabilization pass without cropping in on a 4k extracted image.

Of course it is also helpful for anamorphic.

The 5K mode on the GH5 is also dramatically less sharpened, so it's kind of a "raw-like full sensor readout" mode.

2 hours ago, TrueIndigo said:

Since the organic sensor has obviously failed to show up this time, it would be good if they did something extraordinary for sensor dynamic range (precisely because of the smaller sensor size and fast enough readout). For example, pushing the dual ISO technology to instead make two separate (tone mapped) pixel exposures within the same frame as a standout and unique MFT feature. 

THIS.

Can you imagine if it leapfrogged the pack and ended up with Alexa-like DR?  Now that would be a headline grabber and put MFT back on the map for sure.

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For some people the GH6 does need that stand out feature, which nothing else does.

For other people it will be the overall package of features for the price, and the small size and the particular lens mount that makes it worth upgrading to from an older GH series.

For me I consider focus and exposure basics. So sort out the AF and have an ND filter.

This will make it stand out for me.

Plus ProRes 422 for smoother editing. Wide dynamic range. Great big EVF.

Let's face it, the GH5 was a much nicer camera to use than the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Cameras, with far more features and much better for hybrid use.

So if they can borrow a few features from the BM Pocket 6K Pro like the ND, ProRes and give us all the advantages of a mirrorless camera for $2500 then It'd be a big relief to use the GH6 instead when I need all those.

Panasonic's IBIS system, ergonomics and image processing are some of the best around.

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Ah... A new model, barely more than a firmware upgrade, followed by something still to be developed, barely specified, to be delivered at some non-to-specific time in the medium to far future?

Now, let me see... if video capabilities are important, I'd rather look at Blackmagic 6k Pro, available today, with internal BRAW recording, available today, two built in (mini)XLR with switchable Phantom 48V (or 3.5 mm lo-tech stereo) plus the ability to record onto any USB-C capable SSD with capacities in the 1-2TB range for very few hundred USD with 10GBit speed. Available today. No need for an external monitor or expensive external recorders from third parties with "distributed support obligations" if anything goes haywire ;-)

Luckily, I already have a selection of Canon EF and EF-S glass, XLR pro microphones to the hilt etc. I only need a Smallrig cage plus an SSD holder. The built in tiltable screen is really nice (will do fine on the road as a one man band), and a full license to DaVinci Resolve is not bad either (especially if you're calling an M1 equipped computer your own already using the free version of Resolve for some tasks, beside FCPX).

I'll keep my existing Panasonic gear for image only use, when I'm not preferring using my iPhone for less critical tasks (ProRAW is actually really good and surprisingly flexible in daily use), and concentrate my video work on the Blackmagic platform - investment ~USD 2.500 plus cage. Today. Rest is already owned.

An up and coming GH6 model at some unspecified time in the future, with very little solid information on capabilities, does not deliver video today. Not even tomorrow, next week or next month, this summer, autumn or... or... maybe before Christmas this year, if luck stands by the dreamers.

The GH6 may not even be worth the projected price, when - or IF - it ever is released to the enthusiasts filled with wishfull thinking and hopes of... of? Eh... white unicorns?

PELEASE...!

Panasonic is practicing simple FUD as frequently done by Microsoft et  al. years if not decennia ago.

Reagards

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I have a strong suspicion we will still see DFD in the GH6. While I would love them to make the move, I feel the (presumably) stacked sensor might be all that is needed. We already see the massive difference in AF performance going from 24p to 60p. Read off speed and the amount of frames will determine it's effectiveness. If we can get a "AF Boost" mode in the GH6 that captures at 4K120p and then down converts to what ever frame rate you want 120,60,30,24 etc., you could get the benefit of fast DFD focusing at any frame rate. It would probably limit to 30 mins or whatever the 4K120p will be set to, but could be switched off to get unlimited 4K or to use 5.7K (probably 30 mins also). Without high frame rates it will no doubt faster than what we've seen, but I think 24p always hampers it's potential a bit.  

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22 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Wait till you see how much they love Atomos? I'm going to be tied up with HDMI cables forever it seems (for ProRes or RAW)

yep. They’re gonna lose me too if they keep it up with the external recorder crap. The AF is lame enough that I may as well get a better camera without it, it’s the same difference. Those are the two things they NEED to remedy this iteration: real AF and internal Raw.

ND would be nice but not critical.

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