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My Canon EOS R5 recording 8K video 50 minutes straight


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13 hours ago, Electroholic Anonymous said:

It would be great if Magic Lantern could repeat their work for the 5D line, that would be heaven. Otherwise, if I find a way to recover the DAT file into a healthy CRM file, I might just use that. It should not be difficult, because ending the 17 min recording in my video, does not appear to take any considerable processing. If I compare the DAT file to the CRM file with a hex editor (HxD),  the data looks the same (also in SciPy and Matlab I get the same data entropy readings, of course, it's compressed RAW data after all) The header is different though, what's missing is metadata, how many frames are recorded, block entries for audio and video data, etc. A simple copy over from the header of the healthy CRM to the unfinished DAT file, did not work well in Premiere and Resolve, they recognize it, but Premiere gives frame access exceptions (I forgot the precise error description), and Resolve shows black video. It is not easy (for me), to rebuild the correct metadata for the DAT file. It is not easy for the c200 either because it lasts a long time on that camera to repair a DAT file. Hopefully our friends at Grau expand their program with support for the R5 soon, it support a long list of camera's and formats, I trust they will be able to do it. Their program is able to repair the MP4 files, but the resulting 8K video is all corrupted, although the metadata is correct, correct codec information, number of frames and all. I have send them a healthy and corrupted MP4 too.

Thanks Andrew, please keep pushing with the wonderful people of Magic Lantern. Where can we donate to Magic Lantern to get this show going? Crowd funding anyone? If that does not work out, I am confident (and foolish) enough to shoot with the power interruption method, once a reliable DAT file recovery option is available.

I had no idea you existed until I read your posts here and this incredible entry on YT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IagTjRO5Y30

I invite everyone to follow the content you wrote/left there.

Credits and kudos to Andrew's tests/findings as well : )

 

What do you plan next? :- )

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I paid 4900 euros for the camera and expected to be able to shoot at least 4K HQ with it as much as I can when placed preorder. I aknowledged that there could be problems with 8K video, but I was not

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"I tested the temperatures of the R5 with a Seek Thermal camera, on the outside, as well as of the memory cards and card slot at the time of changing the CFexpress cards, in prior tests as well as during the recording of this video. In my opinion, no unusual high temperatures were measured. The Ninja V gets a lot hotter, and not only at its heatsink, the screen of the Ninja V feels much hotter than the R5 ever has on any of its surfaces, the past month. The R5 has felt the hottest, not while shooting video, but while shooting slightly more than 8000 photos in an hour on the electronic 20 fps setting with RAW+jpeg, yet not hotter than my D850 felt through the years after similar abuse. My GH5 is much hotter after an hour of recording, also at its memory card bay. My 2011 Macbook Pro and 2012 Alienware laptops have felt a lot hotter a lot of the time, and they are still doing fine. The 4K proxies of the 8K RAW edit just blisteringly fast on the 2011 Macbook Pro, better than the native a7R4 MP4's on my 8 core Intel with RTX2080Ti, I create the proxies on the latter though, quickly, and the rendering too of course."

 

"All this 8K bashing is a bit silly, I find, years and years we worked with proxies, but a slower native MP4 native editing is very much in vogue right now, I am apparently slow to follow the latest fashion; nobody is perfect. I switched to 1080p when many said, who can watch this in 1080p, you're crazy, same with 3D, same with 4K, now with 8K. If you treat the 8K RAW as a photographer, you all of a sudden have a 30 FPS 35 megapixel stills camera with a buffer of 30.000 images that clears immediately, that is, if you need to spray and pray for 17 minutes in one go, some photographer."

 

~ Electroholic Anonymous

source

(ONLY 4 subscribers!? WTH is this?? LOL)

 

100% agreed. Glad I am not alone : )

 

Andrew, you have a hell of quality of members on the board, man... I even think people are not enough aware this is the most helpful filmmaking corner on Internet as far as tech issues concerns.

My gratitude and most fair reason why I am here :- )

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11 hours ago, PaulUsher said:

Petition demands firmware update within 30 days. Reached 100 signature goal on first day.

Please keep sharing this to drive the numbers and keep the pressure on.

https://www.change.org/p/stop-the-cripple-hammer

 

149475738_100signatures.thumb.png.5ad51cbcbb5d9cd33bbacd9944a9ccc9.png

 

 

I think you should create a new thread just for that petition. In fact it would be nice if @Andrew Reid created a blog post with it as it would reach far more people. 

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18 hours ago, Electroholic Anonymous said:

Otherwise, if I find a way to recover the DAT file into a healthy CRM file, I might just use that. It should not be difficult, because ending the 17 min recording in my video, does not appear to take any considerable processing. If I compare the DAT file to the CRM file with a hex editor (HxD),  the data looks the same (also in SciPy and Matlab I get the same data entropy readings, of course, it's compressed RAW data after all) The header is different though, what's missing is metadata, how many frames are recorded, block entries for audio and video data, etc. A simple copy over from the header of the healthy CRM to the unfinished DAT file, did not work well in Premiere and Resolve, they recognize it, but Premiere gives frame access exceptions (I forgot the precise error description), and Resolve shows black video. It is not easy (for me), to rebuild the correct metadata for the DAT file. It is not easy for the c200 either because it lasts a long time on that camera to repair a DAT file. Hopefully our friends at Grau expand their program with support for the R5 soon, it support a long list of camera's and formats, I trust they will be able to do it. Their program is able to repair the MP4 files, but the resulting 8K video is all corrupted, although the metadata is correct, correct codec information, number of frames and all. I have send them a healthy and corrupted MP4 too.

 

@Jn- came up with an alternate idea - use FAT32 on the card and the camera will automatically split up the files into 4GB. I don't have an R5 but I tested this on my RP and verified it doesn't save the NVRAM settings for each of the 4GB file splits. You can read more about it in the following two links. I've asked Andrew and J. Marcus to try this on their R5 but I don't think they've had a chance yet.

Prior to that I did some work on recovering the .DAT file but stopped after the above solution looked like a better alternative. You can read about the work I did in the following link:

 

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On 8/24/2020 at 3:07 AM, Lloyd said:

 

>I understand your rage at Canon and I have been following your posts a lot lately. But I think you should approach this differently. I am worried that because you and others are >'demanding' canon to respond, this might cause a retaliation from the company. The retaliation could be to fix any kind of hacks that we are finding out about or to simply not respond >at all.

I paid 4900 euros for the camera and expected to be able to shoot at least 4K HQ with it as much as I can when placed preorder. I aknowledged that there could be problems with 8K video, but I was not worried because 4K HQ 10 bit 422 would be fine with me most of the time. And it turns out the cripple timer cripples also the 4K HQ. 

I think apologist attitude "oh yeah Canon has all the right" smells deeply rotten. I don't care what Canon thinks, they have ruined the video capabilities of the expensive camera I purchased and traded my 1DX mark II (which did not overheat even in 4K 60p) to. I expected the new camera to be better than the 1DX mark II in video. And it came with Jesus-specs that would show Sony who is the king of video. Then it turns out, after already paying the camera (had to pay in advance to actually get it), that it has timer that ruins all usable video modes. The low quality pixel binned 4K mode most definitely is not what I traded my 1DX mark II for. Because 1DX mark II was able to do high quality 4K all day long, no C-log, but it had EOSHD-C-log installed which was fine. With this timer, my choices are worse image quality than the camera it replaces or live with the timer I never expected to even exist. Canon has betrayed me as a customer. I am not so rich that it would be indifferent to me as a customer if I get fooled by a manufacturer that sells intentional lemons instead of products they marketed.

Canon has no excuses to treat its customers like this. It is despicable. I have no reason to be kind and with apologist attitude towards Canon and than them for ruining my video shooting experience in contrast to the previous camera I had from them. I did not buy this camera for its 4K low quality mode. I could have bought Sony A7RIV instead, if I wanted a camera with pixel binned low quality video, high dynamic range sensor and high megapixel count for still photography. I bought the Canon instead because I expected it to perform better as a hybrid camera than the Sony A7RIV as it had all the things I had been wishing for: 10 bit video, raw video, full sensor readout, Canon DPAF, eye-AF etc. in the same package. It looked like the perfect camera for me. However, Canon completely ruined the video shooting abilities of this camera to category "not suitable for shooting video", unlike marketed, and unlike what I paid for. 

I will use any hack available to shoot video with my R5. And if Canon "fixes it" in the next firmware releases by removing these hack capabilities, I will never upgrade the firmware.

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35 minutes ago, karoliina said:

I paid 4900 euros for the camera and expected to be able to shoot at least 4K HQ with it as much as I can when placed preorder. I aknowledged that there could be problems with 8K video, but I was not worried because 4K HQ 10 bit 422 would be fine with me most of the time. And it turns out the cripple timer cripples also the 4K HQ. 

I think apologist attitude "oh yeah Canon has all the right" smells deeply rotten. I don't care what Canon thinks, they have ruined the video capabilities of the expensive camera I purchased and traded my 1DX mark II (which did not overheat even in 4K 60p) to. I expected the new camera to be better than the 1DX mark II in video. And it came with Jesus-specs that would show Sony who is the king of video. Then it turns out, after already paying the camera (had to pay in advance to actually get it), that it has timer that ruins all usable video modes. The low quality pixel binned 4K mode most definitely is not what I traded my 1DX mark II for. Because 1DX mark II was able to do high quality 4K all day long, no C-log, but it had EOSHD-C-log installed which was fine. With this timer, my choices are worse image quality than the camera it replaces or live with the timer I never expected to even exist. Canon has betrayed me as a customer. I am not so rich that it would be indifferent to me as a customer if I get fooled by a manufacturer that sells intentional lemons instead of products they marketed.

Canon has no excuses to treat its customers like this. It is despicable. I have no reason to be kind and with apologist attitude towards Canon and than them for ruining my video shooting experience in contrast to the previous camera I had from them. I did not buy this camera for its 4K low quality mode. I could have bought Sony A7RIV instead, if I wanted a camera with pixel binned low quality video, high dynamic range sensor and high megapixel count for still photography. I bought the Canon instead because I expected it to perform better as a hybrid camera than the Sony A7RIV as it had all the things I had been wishing for: 10 bit video, raw video, full sensor readout, Canon DPAF, eye-AF etc. in the same package. It looked like the perfect camera for me. However, Canon completely ruined the video shooting abilities of this camera to category "not suitable for shooting video", unlike marketed, and unlike what I paid for. 

I will use any hack available to shoot video with my R5. And if Canon "fixes it" in the next firmware releases by removing these hack capabilities, I will never upgrade the firmware.

I think as a paid customer you trusted them and gave them the benefit of doubt but they ruined that trust and gave you a very expensive subpar product so you have every right as their customer to voice your disappointment at this camera and their overall attitude towards the people who actually keep them in business. You should call up your local Canon dealer and give them a piece of your mind and also write Canon customer service and let them know how you feel about spending close to 5000 euros on a product they marketed for professional usage INCLUDING VIDEO but is completely and utterly broken.

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Customers like Karolina were deliberatly misled by Canon's marketing. It was sold front and centre as a 'professional' hybrid camera and focused very heavily on the video capabilities.

Yet if you listen to the fan boys it's like none of this ever happened and canon can 'do what they like'. It's pretty disgusting given people have shelled out thousands of their hard earned in good faith. If you dare to point any of this out, as Andrew and others have done, you come under sustained personal attack! The fan boys have a lot to answer for.

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4 hours ago, horshack said:

@Jn- came up with an alternate idea - use FAT32 on the card and the camera will automatically split up the files into 4GB. I don't have an R5 but I tested this on my RP and verified it doesn't save the NVRAM settings for each of the 4GB file splits. You can read more about it in the following two links. I've asked Andrew and J. Marcus to try this on their R5 but I don't think they've had a chance yet.

Prior to that I did some work on recovering the .DAT file but stopped after the above solution looked like a better alternative. You can read about the work I did in the following link:

 

No luck with FAT32 on CFexpress, see picture of R5 LCD. Brilliant idea though! Why didn't I think of that?! I will try SD with MP4 next.

FAT32 CFexpress.jpg

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Still no luck on CFexpress...

My 2 years old 256GB Adata UHS-II V90 275MB/s microSD (with adapter to UHS-II SD size, of course) also works brilliantly in 8K IPB 680Mbps! Below a successful attempt to record 6 minutes of 8K30p, that yielded 6 MP4 files of 47 seconds each and a yet unrecoverable DAT file of around 20 seconds.  Thanks Jn and Horschack!!!

FAT32 - 256GB SD 8K IPB MP4 - SUCCESS.jpg

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2 hours ago, Electroholic Anonymous said:

IT WORKS!!!

This is with a Sony UHS-II card, R5 recording 8K 23.98p IPB in roughly 680Mbps. I will try some other modes next, but I trust this will work in any mode available on SD. Pity that RAW does not work with this neatest of tricks. You guys are geniuses!

 

FAT32 - SD 8K IPB MP4 - SUCCESS.jpg

Thanks! Did you verify that the thermal timer didn't reset after pulling the battery for this FAT32 case?

Interesting how the CFE didn't work. Hoka Key on the dpreview forums wasn't able to get his 320GB CFE card recognized by his R5 either when formatted to FAT32. I wonder if Canon just disabled FAT32 support for CFE. Do you have a smaller CFE card to try by any chance?

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9 minutes ago, horshack said:

Thanks! Did you verify that the thermal timer didn't reset after pulling the battery for this FAT32 case?

Interesting how the CFE didn't work. Hoka Key on the dpreview forums wasn't able to get his 320GB CFE card recognized by his R5 either when formatted to FAT32. I wonder if Canon just disabled FAT32 support for CFE. Do you have a smaller CFE card to try by any chance?

After a 6 minute run just now, it gives me 15 minutes again. As I am writing this the R5 is recording a 15 minute run. Will report back in 15 minutes 😉 No, I have two 1TB Integral Ultima CFE cards, and one Sandisk 512GB card. The Integrals run colder by the way. None of those 3 gave me an error or other disappointing behaviour, ever, for over a month now with the R5, a month full of abuse and power interruptions, hats off to those cards, the R5, and you and the others coming up with the FAT32 idea. Thanks a lot!

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10 minutes ago, Electroholic Anonymous said:

After a 6 minute run just now, it gives me 15 minutes again. As I am writing this the R5 is recording a 15 minute run. Will report back in 15 minutes 😉 No, I have two 1TB Integral Ultima CFE cards, and one Sandisk 512GB card. The Integrals run colder by the way. No of those 3 gave me an error or other disappointing behaviour, for a month full of abuse and power interruptions, hats off.

Fantastic, that's a working solution for SD then. Canon might have removed the legacy FAT32 support starting with CFE since it's an easy technology inflection point to do so. 

Could I ask a big favor? Could you possibly run 8K recording for an hour, using battery pulls as necessary? Also, after you reach the hour could you immediate take a photo? I'll post a batch file that will extract the EXIF temperatures from all the files and put them into a .CSV file I can graph with Excel. Typing on my phone right now so don't have access to my computer this moment. Thanks again!

The data rate for 8K is about 162 MB/s so you may need to copy the files halfway through so you don't run out of card space. 

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11 minutes ago, horshack said:

Fantastic, that's a working solution for SD then. Canon might have removed the legacy FAT32 support starting with CFE since it's an easy technology inflection point to do so. 

Could I ask a big favor? Could you possibly run 8K recording for an hour, using battery pulls as necessary? Also, after you reach the hour could you immediate take a photo? I'll post a batch file that will extract the EXIF temperatures from all the files and put them into a .CSV file I can graph with Excel. Typing on my phone right now so don't have access to my computer this moment. Thanks again!

The data rate for 8K is about 162 MB/s so you may need to copy the files halfway through so you don't run out of card space. 

Oops, that 162 MB/s is for 8K ALL-I. Using IBP it should be about 81 MB/s

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It works! 15:00 again and the R5 is now recording its second 15 minute run. I am policing the outside and card slot temps, colder than with CFE and RAW, but that should not be a surprise. We'll see whether I am brave and foolish enough to let this abuse carry on for a full hour, we will find out within the hour 😉

162MB/s?? Peak rate? It's 680Mbps, so should be 85MB/s. 47 seconds for a 4GB chunk also give 85MB/s. I need to re-format the cards between runs, because on the first recording start, the R5 gave the card slow error after 10 seconds. I immediately restarted the recording. So let's see. I have two 128GB and one 256GB UHS-II cards that are fast enough for 8K30 IPB.

8 minutes into the second recording on the 256GB microSD everything is fine and dandy still, after the first card slow message. Sandisk 128GB is formatted and ready to go.

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Still working! Reformatted card does not give card slow error, on the start of the third 15 minute run which I started 4 minutes ago. The Adata microSD came out with 64C (degrees Celsius). The card slot and a nice 51 C, the R5's back at the location of the Digic stays at a stable and healthy 37C, it does not have a fever yet, and breaks no sweat.

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3 minutes ago, Electroholic Anonymous said:

Still working! Reformatted card does not give card slow error, on the start of the third 15 minute run which I started 4 minutes ago. The Adata microSD came out with 64C (degrees Celsius). The card slot and a nice 51 C, the R5's back at the location of the Digic stays at a stable and healthy 37C, it does not have a fever yet, and breaks no sweat.

Thanks. Here's the batch file I wrote that will extract the EXIF temps and put them into a .CSV file. Pass it the directory where you put all the .MP4s and the final still-image, plus a *.* mask. For example: get_exif.cmd c:\pics\*.*

@echo off
REM Put results.csv in same directory as files we're processing
SET resultsfile="%~dp1results.csv"
echo %resultsfile%
exiftool.exe -q -m -ext MP4 -ext JPG -ext CRW -ext CR2 -ext CR3 -p "${CreateDate;$_=(split(' ',$_))[1]},${FileName},${Duration#},${CameraTemperature#}" %1 > %resultsfile%

Above a certain filesize exiftool complains about not having large file support. Hopefully that wont be the case for the split-4GB files.

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My external battery has cut the test short unfortunately, 40 minutes into the test. The R5 gave the message to charge or replace the battery. I will repeat the test that I posted on youtube, tonight, running for over an hour this time, using two Sandisk 128GB SD cards in FAT32. Showing the clock again, and connecting the Ninja for the low-res 😉 4K Prores backup, and the thermal camera, and copying over all MP4 files in between, for proof. Just now I did not have time to copy the first run of MP4 files of the card. So tonight, or this afternoon if I have time.

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