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Removing internal battery resets EOS R5 overheat timer


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Very interesting that it resets the timer.  Still rather curious if there's any potential for damaging the sensor though.  Like if you do this for a full day do you start to "see things".  Not really worried about the CPU or even media bay in this case.

Sucks either way.  Sounds like some sort of firmware update is coming might have some sort of rate increase, but I think I'd like to know more about if they are trying to protect the sensor itself or if it's actually just crippled.

Plus side, images are nice off of it.  I'm certain with all of this though an actively cooled 8K cinema camera will be coming to the Canon C series lineup outside of the Japan only one they currently have.

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Let's be honest, these stupid workarounds are not practical on set. It is up to Canon to fix the damn camera, not us. We paid the money, and not a small amount. Unscrewing the back, pro

I am absolutely not saying that someone who had an R5 could use a good old fashioned CR2032 battery eliminator in the camera then bring it out through the camera enabling them to provide a switchable

"Math Class" on Baidu now has extensive infrared thermometer readings of the camera's mainboard with the back off, showing they correspond closely to the temperature reported in the EXIF data and don'

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39 minutes ago, Cliff Totten said:

Is modifying a product that belongs to you illeagle?

How many things that we buy and then make changes to? People modify computers and electronic equipment every day.

Could you imagine if Dell tried to sue you for modifying your laptop hardware? Could you imagine Ford suing you for modifying your engine...etc....etc.

If you own it, it no longer belongs to the campany that made it. Its your thing and you can screw it up all you want.

Not illegal but would void the warranty. At that point, they wouldn't be liable for any repairs or warranty claims. 

As for Magic Lantern, not sure what is going on there. I guess Canon could make an intellectual infringement case against them if they wanted to since they are developing software that significantly modifies their products without obtaining a license from them to do so.

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23 minutes ago, Phil Holland said:

Very interesting that it resets the timer.  Still rather curious if there's any potential for damaging the sensor though.  Like if you do this for a full day do you start to "see things".  Not really worried about the CPU or even media bay in this case.

Sucks either way.  Sounds like some sort of firmware update is coming might have some sort of rate increase, but I think I'd like to know more about if they are trying to protect the sensor itself or if it's actually just crippled.

Plus side, images are nice off of it.  I'm certain with all of this though an actively cooled 8K cinema camera will be coming to the Canon C series lineup outside of the Japan only one they currently have.

In ProAv's Q & A video, Mehdia Mehtal spoke about unlimited recording externally as long as camera was powered by the mains. She said you wouldn't have to worry about limits, externally but emphasized mains power. She also spoke vaguely about Canon lifting time limits at some point. 

EXIF data on the camera after recording hour straight in 104 degree Texas heat ( direct sunlight ) didnt go higher than 65 C, and after instantly switching to internal recording the camera acted as if it hadn't even been powered on prior with full times available in all desired modes. Camera was very hot to the touch as well. It also seemed to cool down very quickly as EXIF data showed it was at 30 C within 14 minutes.

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53 minutes ago, Mandalorian said:

Not illegal but would void the warranty. At that point, they wouldn't be liable for any repairs or warranty claims. 

As for Magic Lantern, not sure what is going on there. I guess Canon could make an intellectual infringement case against them if they wanted to since they are developing software that significantly modifies their products without obtaining a license from them to do so.

MagicLantern does not produce any modification to the original firmware, it remains intact. What it does is add functions through a firmware that works in addition to the existing one, is hosted on the card and can be deleted at any time.

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4 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I am absolutely not saying that someone who had an R5 could use a good old fashioned CR2032 battery eliminator in the camera then bring it out through the camera enabling them to provide a switchable power source to it to effectively remove/re-insert it without taking the camera apart each time they want to reset the recovery time.

I'm absolutely not saying that.

Someone else might say that.

But, just to be clear, I'm not saying that at all, OK?

 

 i was thinking it or something similar. Still how long would it take  to input the settings after rebooting ? because that could get tedious. 

is this the camera equivalent of takata airbags incident or blatant cripple hammer blow, forcing people to by the pricey cine camera ?

Rather glad it was someone else and not me buying a

lemon.thumb.jpg.abd23d4f8f763dce01473187432d8ba4.jpg

 even in the interests of science or being a watchdog for the followers on eoshd and further abroad. thats alot of money to potentially  throw away if no fix comes along. Your a braver man than me, mr reid

Canon lost a lot of my interest after i learned of putting magic lantern on the 60d i had and that was years and years ago. To have features and then lock them away from users is naughty at best, or criminal in the worst case. Canon wont be getting anymore of my money not sure what my next still camera will be except it wont be a canon.

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Companies rarely say things like "sorry" and prefer the option of "regret". In Canon's case, it'll only mean they "regret" being caught red handed... I doubt they'll learn anything due to their consistent policy of protecting pro video gear, which this camera is clearly not with those recovery times. When companies (or governments) say "sorry", it only acknowledges their guilt, which means a payout.

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6 hours ago, noone said:

Wait!    Why does there even need to be a battery in there and how long will it work before needing replacement?

Its there so that the camera remembers things such as time and date (and the clock keeps on running) even when the camera has no battery. Without any power it’d forget those things. 

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I'm a bit uncomfortable with all the ranting going on without having all the bases covered. So far everyone talked about the CPU and the CFExpress card but no one took a look at the sensor. Image sensors are _reeeally_ sensitive concerning electromagnetic interference and heat to which they will react with (much) degraded image quality. And the R5/R6 have IBIS which means the sensor is movable and therefore cannot touch really anything. And not touching anything means you cannot dissipate heat very well. Canon even has filed a patent for a lens adapter with active sensor cooling.

Maybe it's not the CPU that's the problem. The 1DX Mk3 may be another hint towards it, managing twice as many pictures for the same battery. It seems that Canon uses an improved process node (or whatever) to improve battery life which meand reduced heat. Please check the sensor before going on with this, otherwise there may be a hole in your chain of reasoning.

 

   ...Mike

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This is a Tsunami for Canon, but the outcomes may be quite interesting.

Think about the overall design? It was actually not too bad as they need to implement a timer to shut it down.
I can't imagine their meeting between the guy in charge of the R5 project when he learn that Canon will put a timer to shut it down, even if he did a great job preventing overheating.

Sony should start worried a bit too as the R5 camera is a real hybrid without this tiny battery cell. Not so much overheating, high resolution sensor, great AF and dynamic range.
The advantage of A7R3 will be reduced quite drastically. 

Can Canon goes with a firmware to remove this timer? Sure (And I don't think there is a need for a recall, it's purely software related)
Can magic lantern just create a smart app that change the value of the timer? That's seems quite simple if you know where this flag is located in memory.

Think of all these fake youtuber and website who have been reported about their camera not overheating, or even presented the Tilta solution as viable. What a joke.
All these blogs and comments explaining that the sensor have to overheat; that tests was badly done; bla bla bla.
How ridiculous they are now? How will they come clean on this one?
I can tell you that it put them on a weird position with the brand they supported if they keep this silence.

Canon have to answer this one.
Either by dropping the "overheat" flag by software, or at least explain what they did and call it with real word : "Recording Timer"

Knowing that it's a complete fabricated issue is actually a relief and I may consider one again. It just have to be fixed.

 

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Ha this article started out so good, I thought the it was fixed completely by removing the battery. But I forgot it also saves the settings you set in the camera. Which is kinda a drag if you have to set up picture profile, framerate, AF settings, ..... 

But now we know magic lantern is one option to fix this camera, allthough they dont seem that active anymore so it might take years and then even Canon could have released an R10 without overheating problems. 

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I suspect that even with all the negative publicity due to the R5/R6 "overheating" being found out to be mostly fake, Canon is still not going to "fix" the problem since Canon always wanted the higher end video options of the R5/R6 to be crippled.

Sure, they will probably release a firmware that will modestly increase the record times for the higher end video modes so that they can at least pretend that the issue is "fixed", and they will probably spout some line like "Well, we need the record limits to prevent sensor damage, blah, blah, blah..."

But the higher end video options will always be crippled on the R5/R6 since they have RF Cine cameras and 8K Cine cameras coming out soon that need to sell, and they sure as hell don't want the R5/R6 eating into those sales at all.

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About having to manually put all your settings in...

Imagine if someone had already written an app that uses Canon's API for testing this overheating and that could also reset all those settings in one go when you haven't used the battery reset workaround that I certainly never advocated using?

nice GIF

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2 hours ago, Filmschmiede said:

I'm a bit uncomfortable with all the ranting going on without having all the bases covered. So far everyone talked about the CPU and the CFExpress card but no one took a look at the sensor. Image sensors are _reeeally_ sensitive concerning electromagnetic interference and heat to which they will react with (much) degraded image quality. And the R5/R6 have IBIS which means the sensor is movable and therefore cannot touch really anything. And not touching anything means you cannot dissipate heat very well. Canon even has filed a patent for a lens adapter with active sensor cooling.

Maybe it's not the CPU that's the problem. The 1DX Mk3 may be another hint towards it, managing twice as many pictures for the same battery. It seems that Canon uses an improved process node (or whatever) to improve battery life which meand reduced heat. Please check the sensor before going on with this, otherwise there may be a hole in your chain of reasoning.

 

   ...Mike

Please remember to check all the previous articles and topics before you mention the sensor.

A) It runs doing 8K readout for hours when external recorder is attached

B) It's been measured with an infrared thermometer

C) The visible image noise doesn't increase between 10-20mins in 8K recording, let alone after 4 hours

D) The R6 has similar overheating timer, even though the low resolution 20 megapixel sensor (similar to 1DX3) is only doing 5K/4K readout

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