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Geoff CB

Fuji vs Nikon: Post vs Shooting and the cost of glass.

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I posted on the Fuji thread that I recently smashed my Nikon 24-70 G lens and looking at replacing it for my Nikon Z system gave me pause. I've been having issues with 2 aspects with the system for video. The horrible audio preamps and the viewfinder and HDMI delay when shooting 24p. Given that I looked at the overall system costs for lenses that cover most of my needs and that is what made me consider switching.

Nikon Z Lens Kit: $5450
Nikon NIKKOR Z 24-70mm f/2.8 S  $2,300
Nikon 70-200 Z Probably at least $2300
Nikon 35mm Z $850

Fuji XT-3 Lens Kit: $3250
Fuji 16-55 2.8 $1200
Fuji 50-140 2.8 $1600
Fuji 23mm $450

I don't enjoy shooting the Sony's (Though Tamron's cheap zooms really make them attractive financially), and have already been down that road, so I left them out as an option. 

So my options are keep my Nikon gear, or switch to Fuji. I've been renting the Fuji for a week so far and have it until friday, here are my positives and negatives of each by comparing them so far. Keep in mind my primary use is shooting for an actual theater screen (I'm a theater manager at an independent theater) with a fast turn around. So the audio preamp issue actually effects me heavily in these situations due to the sound system. 

Advantages of XT-3
Lighter Body and Lenses
In camera LOG
True 24 fps, 2048x1080, 1/48 shutter
Auto WB is spot on in every situation I throw at it.
Great audio preamps.

Negatives for Me:
Lack of IBIS
Worse in lowlight for photo and video (Lack of Full Frame Sensor) But not terrible.
Some ergonomic issues (Speed of switching from from Manual focus to Autofocus)
Micro HDMI out

Advantages of Z6
Better for photos in low light
IBIS
Better Viewfinder
Ergonomics (Faster switching between video and photo, af modes, changing aperture)
Higher Quality 120 fps
Full Frame sensor and ability to adapt lenses.

Negatives for Me:
Viewfinder delay when shooting 24p. WHY.
Audio Preamps are awful, truly awful. You have to 100% nail the audio levels when shooting for it to be acceptable.  

Similarities
Color from both is excellent.
AF in photo and video seems to be on par with one another with the Z6 having a slight edge. Not enough of a difference to be a large issue.

Overall Feelings

XT-3: Far better for video work, I think the old school dial methods actually hold it back in terms of usability. Image is gorgeous and the options are great. 

Nikon Z6: Damn I love that IBIS. Damn I hate that audio preamp. Love the ergonomics,.

I conclusion I love using the Nikon more in the field, but the second I step into editing the Fuji is king. 

What do you guys think?
 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

you don't need to use the dials with the fuji, you can set up the wheels to do the same.

switching from manual to af is quite simple since you only have to move one button

you can use ff lenses on fuji with an adapter, that's what i do coming from canon.

 

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Sounds like the xH1 would be an option.  Just about the same as the xt3 with IBIS, and can use the same lenses.

I have all 3 xh1, z6, xt3.  I use the xh1, z6 more due to the ibis and ergonomics.  Prefer the color from the fuji's.  But the z6 kills it in extreme low light which may not be important.

The little xt30 is a nice budget/light option for living on a gimbal as well.

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3 hours ago, socs said:

Sounds like the xH1 would be an option.  Just about the same as the xt3 with IBIS, and can use the same lenses.

I have all 3 xh1, z6, xt3.  I use the xh1, z6 more due to the ibis.  Prefer the color from the fuji's.  But the z6 kills it in extreme low light which may not be important.

Tempted to wait until the XH2, I thought about the XH1 but the worse video specs and inferior AF turned me off of it.

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3 hours ago, socs said:

I would wait till September 20 when fuji is announcing some new stuff.  Likely xt3 firmware and maybe new cams.

Source on that?

Awesome if true, hopefully that announcement will bring a XH2 with the video specs from the XT3 and a bigger battery :)

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3 hours ago, Jrsisson said:

Can you not use a separate audio recorder and sync in post?

Doing shoots and interviews quick and the faster I can go on set and in post for them the better. I have unfortunately had this setup in the past and would forget to hit record on the audio while being in a rush. Would rather press one button to record than 2, and eliminate points of failure during a shoot. 

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8 minutes ago, Geoff CB said:

Do you have a source on that? Thanks

There is a fuji summit x summit in shibuya, JP on Sep 20.  Supposedly on the rumor sites a new mysterious fuji cam has been registered, and at last years summit they took feedback on future xt3 firmware and said they would implement one.  So rumors at the moment.

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1 hour ago, Geoff CB said:

Doing shoots and interviews quick and the faster I can go on set and in post for them the better. I have unfortunately had this setup in the past and would forget to hit record on the audio while being in a rush. Would rather press one button to record than 2, and eliminate points of failure during a shoot. 

I live in constant fear of that happening to me..

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4 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

Doing shoots and interviews quick and the faster I can go on set and in post for them the better. I have unfortunately had this setup in the past and would forget to hit record on the audio while being in a rush. Would rather press one button to record than 2, and eliminate points of failure during a shoot. 

Just thinking out loud here, but could you run two audio setups?  One that goes into a recorder and one that goes into the camera?  If the camera one is wired and doesn't require external power then the camera one would be a reliable backup that should always capture audio regardless of you remembering something, that way you have a backup?  Bad camera audio (with some processing in post) would be far better than not getting any audio at all.

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Are you sure the Z6 120fps is better than the XT3? 

Big advantage on the Z6 is more glass and low light. 

The 10bit flog is definitely a much better image than you get out of the Z6. Full frame 10 bit is attractive though if you use an external recorder. 

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16 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

Advantages of Z6
Full Frame sensor and ability to adapt lenses.

Another advantage is the FTZ adapter, which gives you full access to the huge Nikon lens arsenal, including some specialized lenses like a 300mm f2.8, 500 f4, 135 f2, the PCE lenses

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Χ-T3 has no IBIS, and the 16-55mm has no IS. Having no IS on your workhorse lens is a huge no-no for me.

I also prefer IS from IBIS, but this is a personal preference.

If you ask me, both systems are slightly overpriced for what they are, but both very capable.

If I was starting today the Z system seems the best all arounder, but I would (will) be waiting for their next body and a few more 4f zoom lenses and pancake primes. I do not care for 2.8f full frame (size,weight,cost).

I am not aware of the sound issues you have, for me every hybrid camera have terrible sound amps (you will be surprised how expensive the good ones are, or a good headphones pre-amp) but there are a few workarounds for sure. There is also a Shure camera mic with built in recorder or a MixPre3.

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I think there is so little in it in regard to size, weight or quality of output, you wouldn't trade one for another, so it comes down top whether you want 4k 60p (Fuji) or IBIS (Nikon) as there main takeaways.

I took a long hard look at the Z's, but in the end decided there was not enough over my Fuji set up (pair of XT3's for video and XH1 + X100F for stills).

In fact it would take something pretty special now and quantifiably different for me to consider switching to anything but what i have next year.

For video that is. For photo, I will be looking at any of the options which should include; X Pro3, X100V and possibly XH2.

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4 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I think there is so little in it in regard to size, weight or quality of output, you wouldn't trade one for another, so it comes down top whether you want 4k 60p (Fuji) or IBIS (Nikon) as there main takeaways.

I took a long hard look at the Z's, but in the end decided there was not enough over my Fuji set up (pair of XT3's for video and XH1 + X100F for stills).

In fact it would take something pretty special now and quantifiably different for me to consider switching to anything but what i have next year.

For video that is. For photo, I will be looking at any of the options which should include; X Pro3, X100V and possibly XH2.

As someone who has the XH-1 and the XT-3 how do they compare for you for Low Light AF? Are they about on par? That camera is heavily discounted right now and one of the only things holding me back on it is the low light AF.

 

6 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Χ-T3 has no IBIS, and the 16-55mm has no IS. Having no IS on your workhorse lens is a huge no-no for me.

I also prefer IS from IBIS, but this is a personal preference.

If you ask me, both systems are slightly overpriced for what they are, but both very capable.

If I was starting today the Z system seems the best all arounder, but I would (will) be waiting for their next body and a few more 4f zoom lenses and pancake primes. I do not care for 2.8f full frame (size,weight,cost).

I am not aware of the sound issues you have, for me every hybrid camera have terrible sound amps (you will be surprised how expensive the good ones are, or a good headphones pre-amp) but there are a few workarounds for sure. There is also a Shure camera mic with built in recorder or a MixPre3.

Yeah I agree the lack of IS in the 24-70 equivalent is a real kick in the teeth for event photography.

 

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This is a hard one Geoff.

I would at least wait to see if Fuji has an announcement of the XH2 in September. I really think they are going to pivot that camera to be video centric in nature.

Ive heard Fuji glass doesn’t have the best video AF performance (focus noise). Maybe someone can chime in on that and debunk it.

I would say keep the Z6. Buy the new BM 7” Video Assist for it. You would get external recording (ProRes RAW someday...) and the 7” model has some serious preamps in the unit. So you could have it record and bake in the audio.

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