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Andrew Reid

Find the best video quality for under $200 - fun challenge

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42 minutes ago, kye said:

@Andrew Reid - good job on the rules :) 

 

I have a particular new project coming up and am looking for recommendations for a camera that is as cinematic as possible and that I can buy for less than $150.....  

 

GH2 with a hack would have my vote. Any EOS camera with ML ought to do also for that price..

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

GH2 seems to be selling for about $200 on ebay right now slightly above the $150 mark. My GH2 stopped working with adapted lenses though so my only option is my Olympus 17mm 1.8 which isn't really a cheap lens. Its not terribly expensive but not a 50 buck 50mm

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3 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

Sounds like fun. Now a deep dive into the ebay abyss to find a $150 camera that shoots decent video...

Chris

I'm one step ahead of you.  I already have MFT lenses, so...

Find list of Panasonic m43 cameras <check>
Ebay search GH2 under $150 <nope>
Ebay search GH1 under $150 <maybe....>
Ebay search G7 under $150 <nope>
Ebay search G6 under $150 <nope>
Ebay search G5 under $150 <nope>
Ebay search GHX1 under $150 <maybe....>
Ebay search GF6 under $150 <nope>
Ebay search GF5 under $150 <maybe....>

Find list of Olympus m43 cameras.......

But hang on, how good are these cameras?  
Crap, I don't know anything about any of these, except that my GF3 video quality is gonna get laughed off the internet.....  

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6 hours ago, kye said:

I'm one step ahead of you.  I already have MFT lenses, so...

Find list of Panasonic m43 cameras <check>
Ebay search GH2 under $150 <nope>
Ebay search GH1 under $150 <maybe....>
Ebay search G7 under $150 <nope>
Ebay search G6 under $150 <nope>
Ebay search G5 under $150 <nope>
Ebay search GHX1 under $150 <maybe....>
Ebay search GF6 under $150 <nope>
Ebay search GF5 under $150 <maybe....>

Find list of Olympus m43 cameras.......

But hang on, how good are these cameras?  
Crap, I don't know anything about any of these, except that my GF3 video quality is gonna get laughed off the internet.....  

Hmm. I saw a Pen EPL2 with kit lens for $150, but IQ is not so good from the videos I watched.

Question for Andrew and rules clarification - is the challenge limited to ILC's? Are Canon's without ML allowed?

Chris

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3 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

Are Canon's without ML allowed?

I think Canon's running ML are not allowed.

A standard EOS-M is a contender as would be the EOS-550D (or whatever its name is in the US).

 

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On 6/25/2019 at 12:28 AM, Andrew Reid said:

4K for £135


If only the GX800 had a mic input then I'd be all over it! Instead going to keep on waiting for an ultra cheap G85 to upgrade to that instead

On 6/25/2019 at 3:08 AM, BTM_Pix said:

First person has 24 hours to shoot something with it then posts it to the next person who has 24 hours and then sends it on etc.


Please post the camera to my address in Cairo Egypt when it is mine turn! Thanks. 

 

On 6/25/2019 at 3:26 AM, BTM_Pix said:

By the way, one slight drawback here is the price variation in different markets.

Most notably in Sweden where some of the prices I've seen him get gear for means that @Mattias Burling might well end up shooting his $150 entry on an Alexa ;)

  

If we don't exclude in the rules the costs of shooting on film then he might!

 

On 6/25/2019 at 5:40 AM, Andrew Reid said:

It also somewhat blows my mind that you can now get a Fuji X-T1 for £160. Nothing for that price can touch it for mirrorless photography. The EVF, the lovely design, decent AF and very capable sensor.

 

I got an X-A3 for US$115

An inferior body than the X-T1 in the eyes of most people, but the X-A3 does have a more modern sensor in it, and was even cheaper to buy than the X-T1!
 

 

On 6/25/2019 at 5:55 AM, newfoundmass said:

It's weird, cause rarely do we get these kinds of deals in the US! In fact, I was just looking and I think the price of used GH2's have gone up since I helped a friend buy a set of them for under $200 each off eBay! 


The GH2 is a *VERY* famous mirrorless model, this is in a way true for all the GH series. 

The G series underneath the GH series has always offered the buyer a bigger bang for their buck, but this is doubly true when considering secondhand purchases because they're underappreciated and not as desirable. 

Thus I'd recommend a G6 (still is my current vlogging weapon of choice!) over a GH2 or even a GH3. 

 

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18 hours ago, Snowfun said:

If we aim for €200 that gets us going in the right general direction. And someone will get their PhD studying why eBay prices suddenly levelled out at €200...


I'm almost certain I've impacted the price of UWP wireless :-/ 

Used to buy them for much cheaper than I can see them going for on eBay now! I reckon it is because I constantly am raving about them (from one corner of the internet to the next) over the more popular G3 wireless. 

 

Definitely EOSHD (and @Mattias Burling for sure!) have had similar impacts (no, not similar, much bigger impacts!) on eBay pricings as well. 

17 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

3. No Magic Lantern RAW... It would thrash everything else and make the contest a bit boring.


Darn it, that excludes my thirty buck Canon 50D!

 

 

17 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

4. Lens has to be "reasonably priced" and you can only use one. Choose wisely from your existing stuff. I will catch you if you use an Otus.


What about two lenses which are dirt dirt cheap? Like twenty bucks each or less?
 

 

17 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

6. Tripod or handheld only - so no fancy rigs or sliders.


Going to assume monopods are ok. 

What about shoulder rigs?

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Rules tweak

The limit is now $200 / £200 / €200

But the lower it is, the more the judges will be impressed.

Sure, you can use your existing GH2 which is just about a $200 camera now in some places... But it won't win you many bonus points for creativity.

The cinematography and how good you make the camera look remains the main thing, but if you do it with something far less capable than a GH2, I'll be mightily impressed. Having said that, I'll be just as impressed if you manage to shoot 4K for under $200.

There is also the "public vote", where all the entries will go into a forum poll.

The winner of the EOSHD judge award wins a prize from me.

The winner of the public poll receives the camera of the last place man, just to spice it up ;)

Yes you can shoot with anything... a DSLR, mirrorless, compact. But no Magic Lantern as that would be a big old cheat vs someone with H.264 from 2009.

Big bonus points for finding BARGAINS... This is partly a treasure hunt challenge, and about research into image quality. Feel free to use Google and DPReview video quality chart for example. If you manage to find a 4K beast for under $200, you get a big advantage, so well done. If you find something far less capable but manage to make it look amazing with your shooting skills, also a big well done. Two ways to approach it.

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17 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

7. No fancy lights.

8. No fancy actors.


So non-fancy lights/actors are ok!
 

17 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

10. No fancy lens adapters like an expensive Speed Booster


But my first generation crappy Chinese focal reducer is ok?

Just expensive ones like Metabones is out?
 

17 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

11. Declare your camera (post pictures of it) in the competition thread (once competition has started)


Could be a lot of fun if the camera isn't initially revealed! Maybe if it is posted a fortnight later? 
 

 

17 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Everything else is up to you. No time limit. No editing limitations, you can use a LUT, colour grade, warp stabilisation, slow-mo, etc. if you think it improves your piece.


/picks up the phone to ring Industrial Light & Magic

 

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2 minutes ago, IronFilm said:


But my first generation crappy Chinese focal reducer is ok?

Just expensive ones like Metabones is out?

Hmm I'm not sure... What do people think to focal reducers? Is that cheating with sensor size a bit? Or should it be allowed?

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I think the camera should remain secret until after the vote. When doing camera side by sides we all know people vote for the one that should be best if presented with their identities. 

If there was a max budget for camera+lens+mic+what have you, then speed boosters should be fine.

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15 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

So is my GH2 not allowed because I bought it like 3 years ago?


Maybe not because they're not cheap enough yet? But it would be nice if I was still allowed to use say one of my GH1 bodies (one of which I purchased years and years ago as a film student at what was the crazy low price of I think US$250?? Which is overpriced now! But back then it was dirt cheap! Partially because the dial was a little stuck, no big problem, just had to force it a little. And maybe also partially because the seller took pity on a poor broke film student and wanted to see the camera put to good use? My second GH1 I purchased dirt dirt cheap as well, but that was a couple of years later once the prices had started to properly trend down, and was purchased from a friend)

 

 

13 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Hmm I'm not sure... What do people think to focal reducers? Is that cheating with sensor size a bit? Or should it be allowed?


I reckon if it is an expensive Metabones adapter then no, they're more expensive than the camera!

But the cheap chinese knock offs are so cheap that even once paired with the lens, that the total cost is still lower than many "affordable lenses".

11 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

If there was a max budget for camera+lens+mic+what have you, then speed boosters should be fine.

Oh darn, we're not including mics into the total budget are we....  then my budget will truly be blown!

 

6 hours ago, kye said:

Find list of Panasonic m43 cameras <check>

Having owned both the GH1 and GX1, I'd definitely take the GX1 if we're only talking about image quality. (although the grip / flip out screen / EVF / etc might make someone nudge toward the GH1 maybe, but those don't matter for this competition)
 

6 hours ago, kye said:

But hang on, how good are these cameras?  
Crap, I don't know anything about any of these, except that my GF3 video quality is gonna get laughed off the internet.....  


I own a GF3 as well! Truly below average video quality. 

But for poor videographer who wanted a "D Cam" for his weddings, then a $50 GF3 back in mid 2010, it was a screaming bargain!! No regrets. Was dirt dirt cheap for its time, nothing else could even touch its bang for buck. And its MFT mount made it compatible with all my other video cameras. 

 

58 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

Question for Andrew and rules clarification - is the challenge limited to ILC's?


There are a few hidden gems among the forgotten P&S options which have been lost to the mists of time. Worth considering if a person doesn't mind giving up the benefits of ILC

But I reckon if a person goes with buying a P&S instead they should be allowed to boost their budget by another $100, because they're not going to buying a lens for their camera as it already comes with one. 

 

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3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Hmm I'm not sure... What do people think to focal reducers? Is that cheating with sensor size a bit? Or should it be allowed?

The problem with speedboosters is the budget aspect of it I suppose.

Feels daft in the spirit of things to exclude cheapo ones when they can add so much to a cheap camera but by the same token if you've already got an expensive one then you could argue it makes the overall cost of the package outside the spirit of things.

That would mean anyone who has got an expensive one will have to buy a cheapo one to keep in the rules which seems a bit unfair.

Optically, there isn't a massive difference between them (certainly not relative to price) so its probably less relevant in that regard than the price of the ND filters people will be using so you'd then end up having to have a rule for that as well.

I think if they are allowed then it should be irrespective of how much they cost.

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2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Rules tweak

The limit is now $200 / £200 / €200

Sweet!!!

But wait.... can I still work within the boundaries of $200 US and not CAD?

And, this is just the body... lens is separate cost, right?

If yes to the above, I already have one option in sight 🤪

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

I think the camera should remain secret until after the vote. When doing camera side by sides we all know people vote for the one that should be best if presented with their identities. 

If there was a max budget for camera+lens+mic+what have you, then speed boosters should be fine.

Yeah, good point about keeping your choice of camera secret until after.

I'll add that to the final rules, on the blog post.

Competition will have a start and end date.

How much time should we take... 2 weeks?

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Since you haven't replied to my post, I'm going to assume that it is approved.

Can you also consider shipping times, apparently I won't get the camera for another 2 to 3 weeks.

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41 minutes ago, mkabi said:

Sweet!!!

But wait.... can I still work within the boundaries of $200 US and not CAD?

And, this is just the body... lens is separate cost, right?

If yes to the above, I already have one option in sight 🤪

 

I'd prefer if people use a lens they already have. Unless you don't have anything lens-related that's under $200, spending another $100 on a lens is getting away from the low cost spirit of the competition, as is adding rigs, speed boosters, etc.

Rules are:

Camera body under $200 US on eBay. If you are in a country that has different currency, just translate $200 to your local currency. That's your budget. If your camera is already in your possession, it has to be found for $200 or less, (or equiv. in your currency) using eBay and other online stores as a price guide. Put simply, it has to currently be in stock for that price. No finished auctions or faulty units can count. Has to be a live deal. Can be online or offline at local shop. In Europe and UK we'll have £200 / 200 euro as the budget, to keep it simple... 200 across the board in those 3 currencies, and the rest are converted from $.

Gorilla pod or tripod only. No other rigs, cages, shoulder mounts are allowed.

I'm gonna say Speed Boosters are indeed allowed. Although not strictly in the spirit of the task, I as a judge would be more impressed if you used literally the cheapest possible lens and adapter and make them look good anyway.

3 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Optically, there isn't a massive difference between them (certainly not relative to price) so its probably less relevant in that regard than the price of the ND filters people will be using so you'd have to have a rule for that as well.

Yeah, I'd say a cheap speed booster for $50 you might already own is just about in the spirit of things... But I think I will allow metabones as well, as like you say, end result is pretty similar... so metabones owners aren't put at a disadvantage from the owners of cheap stuff.

As for filters, use whatever... Again the end result of an ND is cheap to create, but if you only have a top of the range $200 ND lying around on a shelf, may as well use it and pretend it cost $10 :)

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Last query from me then....

If the budget for the camera is £200 and a reasonable lens expectation would be another £70 can we use a £270 fixed lens compact?

Or, more specifically, can I use my LX100 or Cinelike D hacked LX15 ;)  

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