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Panasonic FF L-mount Cine camera coming

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12 hours ago, Skip77 said:

The GH5 was an upgrade to the GH4 and the next release can be even as far as price goes. 12 years ago the JVC camcorder that shot 720p was $8,000 plus a $5,000 tape deck. 

Think in reverse - if the GH5 was $1,999 at release just for the body, do you think Panasonic just dropped the price by $500 in the 1 1/2 years since it was released? That means the BMP4K will be $850 in another year. And it means the GH5s is over or under priced right now. 

What? I'm not sure what you're even trying to say? 

You said the GH5 was overpriced on release. That is just silly. It's $2000 price tag for what you got was a bargain two years ago. It wasn't overpriced at all on release. 

That it's $1500 now is a sign that the gap between it and the cameras that have come out since has narrowed, not that it was overpriced on release. It's a much more competitive market now than it was then, and things are moving faster than ever. It's also probably a sign that the GH6 is coming sooner rather than later. 

50 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I think the Panny S1H might end up be the bargain of the year for all it could, and might have when it finally comes out. We could not of dreamed of a camera like this 3 years ago. I think you are underselling this camera by a huge amount. Sure I can't afford it, but if you can this thing is an industry game changer the way I see it.

This camera is going to become the new norm down the road. Panasonic has given us a gift with this announcement. Every company is going to have to pick up the pace big time to match it, let alone beat it. Not counting the CS from the S1 cameras is to die for.

They've raised the bar with the S1H, for sure. Whether it's successful or not, everyone else is going to need to come close to matching it. That might not be an easy task for Sony. 

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5 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

What? I'm not sure what you're even trying to say? 

You said the GH5 was overpriced on release. That is just silly. It's $2000 price tag for what you got was a bargain two years ago. It wasn't overpriced at all on release. 

That it's $1500 now is a sign that the gap between it and the cameras that have come out since has narrowed, not that it was overpriced on release. It's a much more competitive market now than it was then, and things are moving faster than ever. It's also probably a sign that the GH6 is coming sooner rather than later. 

What I find astonishing is that it hasn’t been beaten in its category until, well, Panasonic S1 series release.

I really hope Panasonic recognizes the potential and the expectations of the GH6 and rises to the challenge.

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10 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

What I find astonishing is that it hasn’t been beaten in its category until, well, Panasonic S1 series release.

I really hope Panasonic recognizes the potential and the expectations of the GH6 and rises to the challenge.

While not beaten, Fuji has come close (and to me holds the most promise and interest), BMD gave the world 4K 60p for an even lower price point, and Nikon has shown a lot of promise in video. The gap has definitely closed significantly. 

But yeah, in 2019, it's still a world class camera. Feature for feature there still isn't anyone that matches it outside of Panasonic itself. I think $1499 is a fair price for it new today. I know I've been looking at selling my G85 to pick up another one, though probably used since you can get an even better value there (often with v-log unlocked.) That people are saying it was overpriced on release is just nutty to me. 

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I would have agreed with you, if they didn’t release the GH5s... anything over $2000 with a m4/3 sensor is pushing the market limits IMO. And since Fuji released a S35 camera for $600 cheaper only a year later proves that... again IMO.

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52 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

What I find astonishing is that it hasn’t been beaten in its category until, well, Panasonic S1 series release.

I really hope Panasonic recognizes the potential and the expectations of the GH6 and rises to the challenge.

I’m expecting it will have 4k120fps in H265 and possibly external ProRes RAW up to 4k60p. Apart from an ND filter, I can’t really think of anything else it could realistically have. 

46 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

But yeah, in 2019, it's still a world class camera. Feature for feature there still isn't anyone that matches it outside of Panasonic itself. I think $1499 is a fair price for it new today. I know I've been looking at selling my G85 to pick up another one, though probably used since you can get an even better value there (often with v-log unlocked.) That people are saying it was overpriced on release is just nutty to me. 

I think the GH5 is the best video camera you can buy today, if we’re talking price / performance ratio. Still hasn’t been beaten after 3 years. 

30 minutes ago, mercer said:

I would have agreed with you, if they didn’t release the GH5s... anything over $2000 with a m4/3 sensor is pushing the market limits IMO. And since Fuji released a S35 camera for $600 cheaper only a year later proves that... again IMO.

I think the XH-2 will be their video blockbuster, and I guess they’re taking their time to get it right. If it is what we’re expecting, they can take my money. 

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If the GH5S had internal RAW or 4k 120fps it would have  been a much bigger hit. I did a video called why the GH5Sucks when it came out for those two reasons. We didn't even get internal 10 bit 4k 60p. 

Everytime I think about upgrading to a new camera I just remember how good my XT3 is. 

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1 minute ago, Oliver Daniel said:

I’m expecting it will have 4k120fps in H265 and possibly external ProRes RAW up to 4k60p. Apart from an ND filter, I can’t really think of anything else it could realistically have. 

I think the GH5 is the best video camera you can buy today, if we’re talking price / performance ratio. Still hasn’t been beaten after 3 years. 

I think the XH-2 will be their video blockbuster, and I guess they’re taking their time to get it right. If it is what we’re expecting, they can take my money. 

The P4K beats the GH5 all day long for $1,295

No one has beat the GH5 except the Z6, S1 and these are FF cameras. Who was suppose to beat the m4/3 GH5? The only other m4/3 company beat them. All other were FF cameras or getting into FF. 

Camera companies stick to the $1,000, $1,500 and $2,000 price points year after year and decade after decade. And in the GH5 all your talking is specs only. The 4K 60p  on the Gh5 is not great compared too cine cameras or the P4K?  It seems people get caught up in the "I spent $2,000 and got 4K 60p " and expect that to be good 4K 60p .  

If it was really good 4K 60p then no need for the S1 or S1H. The 4K 60p out of the S1H will be cine quality and is truly bridging the gap. 

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4 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

The Z6 has not beaten the GH5 by any stretch of the imagination. Hell the Z6 can't even do 10 bit in camera, No F Log without a recorder, 29 minute recording time, no Waveform Monitor, on and on, no Anamorphic at all. Get real.

The S1 doesn't have that also and was mentioned as beating the GH5. Your argument doesn't seem valid based on the current camera models being released and supported and what the public wants.

The whole point of having the Atomos recorder is for 10bit recording but for the feature you mentioned. I'm talking image quality and CS.  I don't care if it's 10 bit external vs bad 10 bit internal (Gh5). Which one would you take?  

The Z6 has 12 bit RAW coming. 

What do you want? compressed bad codec 4K 60p on the GH5 or what the Z6 or S1 offer? 

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11 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

The Z6 has not beaten the GH5 by any stretch of the imagination. Hell the Z6 can't even do 10 bit in camera, No F Log without a recorder, 29 minute recording time, no Waveform Monitor, on and on, no Anamorphic at all. Get real.

I feel like he's trolling. "If the GH5 has such good 4K 60p why did Panasonic even bother with the S1 and S1H?" 😂😂😂

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12 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

The Z6 has not beaten the GH5 by any stretch of the imagination.

All the specs on paper won't pull the GH5 image quality up to the Z6 and S1. Your paying more for the S1H to get cine quality features but the core system comes from the S1 and Z6 sensor and design. Both systems use XQD cards for a reason. 

 

3 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

I feel like he's trolling. "If the GH5 has such good 4K 60p why did Panasonic even bother with the S1 and S1H?" 😂😂😂

You think 4K 60p on the Gh5 is great? It's not P4K great is it?  I think the Gh5 users need to stop trolling the Gh5 anytime someone calls out that the spec don't match the video quality they were promised. 

The GH5 looks great until you put it next to P4K footage and until you realize the road map for the S1, Z6 and S1H.   Yeah the Nikon Z6 with it's 12 bit RAW. 

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38 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

I feel like he's trolling. "If the GH5 has such good 4K 60p why did Panasonic even bother with the S1 and S1H?" 😂😂😂

The GH5 was great when it came out but $2,000 is getting up with the BM cameras at $3,500 and the GH5 has horrible AF and is horrible for stills.  So the by the time people really unwrapped the 4K 60p that you get from the GH5 it tells you that in 2017 it was a great camera that pushed the market but it's value as a system to invest in is questionable. 

Why take stills if it's not professional quality?

Why have AF if the whole planet tells you it's bad?

Why compress and codec the hell out of you files? This one goes against every core value that a cine level camera should be.

The GH5 played the spec game and showed what it was when the Gh5s came out. Panasonic was running for the cash and showed us they were willing to be just like Sony and Canon and Nikon. 

 

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3 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

That it's $1500 now is a sign that the gap between it and the cameras that have come out since has narrowed, not that it was overpriced on release. It's a much more competitive market now than it was then, and things are moving faster than ever. It's also probably a sign that the GH6 is coming sooner rather than later. 

I'm not sure about the GH6 coming soon. Maybe but I think it's a least a year out in 2020. Panasonic wants people to jump to the S1 or S1H.   A GH6 at $2,000-2,400 that has to be better then the Gh5 would affect S1 sales and make people question the S1H.  

If the S1H wasn't announced then I would say the GH6 might be around the corner. They can't come out with the Gh6 and say look it's just as good as the S1H. 

They also lost the m4/3 market to the P4K and Zcam.  I just don't see that $2,000 mark that Panasonic needs to hit with the GH6 being available. 

The S1H is the new GH6.........

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The GH5 is good enough where I keep contemplating on buying another one. 

There is still nothing out there that matches it. The Pocket 4k is amazing but its not a run and gun camera and neither is the Z cam. 

I think the GH6 can easily be a winner. Just update the specs a bit, incorporate IBIS, and have good auto focus. With all that there would be nothing else like it on the market. The price should also be $1500 new, same as the XT3. 

The Pocket 4k and Z cam are awesome but the GH5 still overall works better for a run and gun hybrid camera, especially considering IBIS. 

IBIS is the biggest reason most people get the GH5 combined with the pretty decent specs and low cost of an M43 system. 

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2 hours ago, Skip77 said:

The P4K beats the GH5 all day long for $1,295

No one has beat the GH5 except the Z6, S1 and these are FF cameras. Who was suppose to beat the m4/3 GH5? The only other m4/3 company beat them. All other were FF cameras or getting into FF. 

Camera companies stick to the $1,000, $1,500 and $2,000 price points year after year and decade after decade. And in the GH5 all your talking is specs only. The 4K 60p  on the Gh5 is not great compared too cine cameras or the P4K?  It seems people get caught up in the "I spent $2,000 and got 4K 60p " and expect that to be good 4K 60p .  

If it was really good 4K 60p then no need for the S1 or S1H. The 4K 60p out of the S1H will be cine quality and is truly bridging the gap. 

There are other reasons why someone would want a GH5 over a P4K. 

IBIS, flippy screen, higher frame rates, longer battery life, stills, reliability, smaller and lighter... and it’s these reasons why I shoot with one as opposed to a P4k. Not everything is purely down to image quality. Versatility is important for a lot of people. 

Can’t you just accept that the GH5 is the best camera for some people, are for others it’s not? No need to waffle about it. 

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1 hour ago, Skip77 said:

You think 4K 60p on the Gh5 is great? It's not P4K great is it?  

It came out almost 2 years before the Pocket 4K and uses a more compressed codec. So yeah, the Pocket 4K should look better. It's still very good on the GH5; I'm certainly happy with it. 

1 hour ago, Skip77 said:

The GH5 was great when it came out but $2,000 is getting up with the BM cameras at $3,500 and the GH5 has horrible AF and is horrible for stills.

$2000 is quite different than $3500. And mentioning the "horrible AF" immediately after mentioning BMD is pretty funny. The GH5 is a capable stills camera, far from horrible, but you seem to love hyperbole so... 

34 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

I'm not sure about the GH6 coming soon. Maybe but I think it's a least a year out in 2020. Panasonic wants people to jump to the S1 or S1H.   A GH6 at $2,000-2,400 that has to be better then the Gh5 would affect S1 sales and make people question the S1H.  

They're almost completely different markets. Most of us M43 shooters don't want a full frame camera and the heavy lenses that come with it. There is some overlap, but it's not significant. 

It's ridiculous to say Panasonic lost the M43 market to BMD and ZCam. The GH5 likely sold more than the Pocket 4K and every ZCam camera combined. Your perspective is terribly skewed. 

The bottom line, the GH5 gives me the versatility I need. It can do the entire range of work I do, and do it well, whether it's a run and gun scenario, doing green screen work, or shooting interviews. There's a damn good reason why those of us shooting with it are incredibly happy with it. It will remain a relevant camera for years to come. 

I expect, for those wanting a full frame camera, the same will be said about the S1H. 

7 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

Can’t you just accept that the GH5 is the best camera for sone people, are for others it’s not? No need to waffle about it. 

There are always going to be those people that, no matter how happy you are with something, will insist you're wrong! 

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15 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

It came out almost 2 years before the Pocket 4K and uses a more compressed codec. So yeah, the Pocket 4K should look better. It's still very good on the GH5; I'm certainly happy with it. 

$2000 is quite different than $3500. And mentioning the "horrible AF" immediately after mentioning BMD is pretty funny. The GH5 is a capable stills camera, far from horrible, but you seem to love hyperbole so... 

They're almost completely different markets. Most of us M43 shooters don't want a full frame camera and the heavy lenses that come with it. There is some overlap, but it's not significant. 

It's ridiculous to say Panasonic lost the M43 market to BMD and ZCam. The GH5 likely sold more than the Pocket 4K and every ZCam camera combined. Your perspective is terribly skewed. 

The bottom line, the GH5 gives me the versatility I need. It can do the entire range of work I do, and do it well, whether it's a run and gun scenario, doing green screen work, or shooting interviews. There's a damn good reason why those of us shooting with it are incredibly happy with it. It will remain a relevant camera for years to come. 

I expect, for those wanting a full frame camera, the same will be said about the S1H. 

There are always going to be those people that, no matter how happy you are with something, will insist you're wrong! 

I never said anyone is wrong for owning or wanting the GH5. But as GH5 owners don't justify your investment by pushing opinion comments about a system that's outdated and and like its not. 

People want an upgrade in quality and if they invest in a camera's echo system they want to be right about it.  

Does Panasonic make fast pro glass for the GH5?

Is the GH5 a supported camera, meaning will we even get the GH6? 

Panasonic flag ship hybrid was the GH5, was, not anymore. That seems to bother you for some reason. Panasonic could have easily introduced the GH6 to the market and let that camera bridge the gap to it's cine lineup. They did not and I trust they did this for a reason and that reason is cine is moving toward full frame sensors for all the next gen cine cameras. The proof is what glass is being developed for FF cine sensors. It's called a road map and the future. 

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4 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

Panasonic flag ship hybrid was the GH5, was, not anymore. That seems to bother you for some reason. Panasonic could have easily introduced the GH6 to the market and let that camera bridge the gap to it's cine lineup. They did not and I trust they did this for a reason and that reason is cine is moving toward full frame sensors for all the next gen cine cameras. The proof is what glass is being developed for FF cine sensors. It's called a road map and the future. 

Dude, chill out. What is your problem. Why does it bother you people like the GH5 and use it to create quality content for two years. Did the GH5 steal your girlfriend/boyfriend? Based on your posts you seem like an angry person.

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Panasonic is releasing a new M43 zoom lens. They are making a ton of new full frame glass as they are just putting out new full frame cameras with a new mount.

The Pocket 4k is great but the body kind of sucks. It doesn't cater to the same market as people who would buy a GH5. I am sure its winning in terms of people buying it for cinema use but in terms of hybrid cameras it isn't really even competitive.

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