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newfoundmass

Hey Panasonic: Super 35 + M43 mount = winner

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What are the chances of Panasonic going the JVC route and using a combination of a Super 35 sensor and M43 mount? 

When I really think about it this feels like, to me, the near perfect compromise. Virtually every person that uses or owns the JVC LS300 loves it. If JVC has marketed it correctly, I truly think it'd have been one of the major cameras releases to have come out. Instead it just fell under the radar. 

I get excited just thinking of what the Panasonic engineers could do in building something like a LS300. 

Would/have they consider it?

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We had exhaustively discussed this before the GH5 and EVA releases.

It is an amazing idea that unfortunately Panasonic didn't exercise.

The LS300 sold a lot more than people think. It is not in the forums or the front pages of e-magazines, but I have seen a lot in the wild and the pro AV shop that sell them here have told me that it is the best selling camera of the last few years after the FS5. I know a lot of people that match one with the GH cameras (for a more dependable video design and features) and is a very common sight in weddings and live events coverage.

It is start getting old (low light performance is kind of week), but a mkII could be the sweet spot for the under 5000$€£ segment.

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If you want or need that type of body I guess. 

With a bigger body like that it seems like it should have more processing power. Something like a GH5S with internal 10 bit up to 120fps prores would be a good way to go. Zcam is kind of already doing that tho. 

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39 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Hmm.

Just get a Fuji X-T3 or X-H1?

Have you used or looked into the JVC LS300? I'm actually surprised you never reviewed it, as it is a mighty camera for its price. 

The form factor, internal NDs, SDI out, professional XLR inputs, VSM (a feature I figured you'd love with all the vintage lens benefits), prime zoom, the zoom rocker, the streaming capabilities, and the like make such a wonderful package. And the combination of Super 35 and M43 mounts really worked out nicely together!

Whether it's JVC or Panasonic, I'd love, love, love another camera in the spirit (and price!) of the LS300! 

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4 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

What are the chances of Panasonic going the JVC route and using a combination of a Super 35 sensor and M43 mount? 

 When I really think about it this feels like, to me, the near perfect compromise. Virtually every person that uses or owns the JVC LS300 loves it. If JVC has marketed it correctly, I truly think it'd have been one of the major cameras releases to have come out. Instead it just fell under the radar. 

I get excited just thinking of what the Panasonic engineers could do in building something like a LS300. 

Would/have they consider it?


Panasonic missed the boat with the EVA1 by not launching it with a MFT option. 

And Panasonic has never updated the AF100 series. 

Thus I reckon the odds of a MFT camcorder in general (let alone one with a S35 sensor) from Panasonic this year is very very very low chances. 

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Interesting. The GH5S is about halfway in between MFT and ASP-C. I actually don’t quite understand the EVA1 in its current form. I wish Panasonic would innovate MFT and play it’s strengths in the video space. I mean the GH5 is now 2 years old and it’s still pretty unmatched in features offered in a $2000 (now $1500) mirrorless camera.

If they ever released a GH camera with PDAf, I bet they would sell well.

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Isn't MFT a lot more versatile than L mount? As with the JVC camera, you can put more or less any lens on it, but the main gripe with the EVA1, is you can't really use anything other than EF lenses. Using an L mount would irritate people in the same way, or more as less people have suitable lenses. So I think MFT is much more logical.

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If Panasonic is going to keep using the MFT mount for the foreseeable future, I think it would be crazy to not release an MFT mini cinema camera. I can't believe someone hasn't yet. 

Basically stick the GH5s sensor (with G9 IBIS) and specs into a body the size of the FS5 with the MFT mount. With the forthcoming 10-25mm f1.7, that automatically becomes one of the most useable doc cameras. I like the idea of putting a Super35mm sensor in there as well (like the LS300) and then speedboosters would give you a full frame equivalent FOV/DoF.  But as long as they release some more f1.7 - f2 fast zooms, 4/3 sensor is fine too. 

No matter how good they get, until mirrorless cameras have internal NDs and quality audio, they do not replace dedicated video cameras - no matter if the image is just as good or not better. 

The hole in the $3-7k video camera market is huge. It's been 4 years (FS5) since anyone has released a new camera in this space (the II was basically a firmware update, so not sure that counts). Hoping Panasonic, Canon, or Fuji fill it soon.

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8 hours ago, currensheldon said:

If Panasonic is going to keep using the MFT mount for the foreseeable future, I think it would be crazy to not release an MFT mini cinema camera. I can't believe someone hasn't yet. 

 

I fully agree

8 hours ago, currensheldon said:

The hole in the $3-7k video camera market is huge. It's been 4 years (FS5) since anyone has released a new camera in this space (the II was basically a firmware update, so not sure that counts). Hoping Panasonic, Canon, or Fuji fill it soon.

Yeah, it is strange there is not much action priced around the FS5 or cheaper. 

The C100 update is also long missing, which would be around ish the price of a FS5 I bet. 

 

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3 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

AG-101? I never heard of one?

I think he meant the AG-AF100, which in many ways was the precursor to the LS300. Both were ILC with M43 mounts. Had a lot of the features you'd see in cinema cameras, such as SDI out, internal ND, XLR inputs, etc. The LS300 differed though in that it had that Super 35 sensor instead of the 4/3 sensor.

The LS300 sensor is so incredible because it literally let's you use almost any lens without vignetting via VSM. Wanna use a 16mm cinema lens? You can punch in with the sensor to 16mm to eliminate the vignetting and get max resolution allowed. 

My experience has been most M43 I've used will cover the full sensor, but if one doesn't you can VSM down to a M43 sensor to remove any vignetting. 

It also allows you to turn your primes into zooms using the VSM technology. Truly one of the smartest, unique features I've ever seen on a camera like this. I throw on my Minolta primes and they become parafocal zooms in HD (the zoom range is less in 4k, for obvious reasons.) 

I really wish more people checked out the LS300 and that others would look into making something similar for that price point, assuming JVC isn't in the process of doing so. 

 

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I always liked the LS300, but the price vs. recording options is very hard to justify for my needs, much more so now that the XT3 exists. If they made a new version with 10 bit and HEVC, I'd be very interested. Imagine the VSM capabilities if they used a 26MP sensor.

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There are definitely a lot of camera models in the space that have never been updated or are due for an update:

- Canon C100 - this is probably the biggest because it was so popular. Would love an even more compact version. A MarkIII would need that 10-bit 422 4K that the C200 lacks.

- Panasonic AF100 - The GH5 and GH5s have been such massive hits, putting those specs into an AF200 body (sleeker and smaller) with all that comes with a video camera would be awesome to see. 

- JVC LS300 - Never used it myself, but love the MFT mount + Super35mm sensor idea. Would be great to see an update. 

Sony is really the only current manufacturer who has a video camera in this space (FS5). Nikon and Fuji have never had one. Black Magic has a lot of random cameras under $5k that don't really seem to sit anywhere (or are at least non traditional), but a mini Ursa Mini Pro would fit in this space. 

I really think a Canon camera is the only likely one to be introduced this year (C100 or XC-20RF ILC), but would be great to see 2-3 new bodies in this space.

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