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Snowbro

Why Is Sony Fanboyism So Bad?

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I think it boils down to the underdog syndrome - Sony has been pushing innovation hard at the expense of it not being polished enough. I'd wager that most non-PRO users got used to the kinks and like using their cameras, but of course there are those that either really struggle to use them in paid shoots or are just expecting too much (coming from a slow-evolving, but very mature DSLRs). I would go as far as to say that if Sony had the same market share as Canon, they would have the funds to release more polished products, but with the same innovation.

Now, with 2 new players in the segment, their first generation bodies suffer from the same kind of unpolishedness and the same loud users are downplaying the (same) kinks, because they can use their preferred brand forever (extreme hypocrisy).

This kind of blind loyalty is therefore really hurting Sony's trajectory and their supporters have a right to be disappointed.

The worst consequence of all this are now the incessant attempts to label a review that is not in line with users' subjective feelings (and needs) being labeled as biased and fake news (as if reviewers that test an incredible variety of gear don't a have more objective opinion as someone who uses a limited set of gear).

I find it most puzzling the attacks on Dpreview reviews, since they live from selling gear from all brands, and the same people putting vloggers on the pedestal where the referral links are showed in the viewer's face.

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On 12/16/2018 at 3:39 AM, Snowbro said:

I have shot most brands since 2006 & go with whatever I test and like. I don't understand why sony fanboys feel the need to invade every single video etc. on all videos of other cameras? They don't leave semi underhanded comments, it's full blown nastiness. Who is this demographic? I don't get the level of unprovoked hostility, is it purchase insecurity? Is it young kids that can afford a sony instead of the traditionally high priced dslrs of the past? 

Someone help me understand¬†ūüėĀ

 

It is the same folk who own Canon gear, they are by far the worst.

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Interestingly in his recent teardown of a Canon lens, Roger from Lensrentals says two things:

Quote

Also, this will give the Sony fanpeople a full week to bash the Canon lens, because that does seem to be what they live for.

 

Quote

Sonyfanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy with other equipment.

So it seems other notice too

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3 hours ago, frontfocus said:

Interestingly in his recent teardown of a Canon lens, Roger from Lensrentals says two things:

 

So it seems other notice too

Ya, but Canon and Nikon people do the same thing as well. Roger is probably in one of those camps, so when fanboys from those camps do the same thing, they are being "reasonable". Look at any review of Sony equipment and you will see those folk chirping in as well, basically that whatever they happen to use is "better" even when objectively it is not.

You see the same thing here as well, when people start talking about things like "color science", "undefinable qualities", "video like" or "organic" when discussing whatever equipment they like to use. People who talk nonsense like that you need to make fun of, because they deserve it!! ;)

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11 minutes ago, Mokara said:

Ya, but Canon and Nikon people do the same thing as well. Roger is probably in one of those camps, so when fanboys from those camps do the same thing, they are being "reasonable". Look at any review of Sony equipment and you will see those folk chirping in as well, basically that whatever they happen to use is "better" even when objectively it is not.

You see the same thing here as well, when people start talking about things like "color science", "undefinable qualities", "video like" or "organic" when discussing whatever equipment they like to use. People who talk nonsense like that you need to make fun of, because they deserve it!! ;)

You forgot: bad ergos, menus, low bit rate, over sharpened at 0 setting, small lens mount, poor skintones, jumpy AF, expensive lenses, playmemories app no longer allows timelapses. Did I miss anything? Haha, the a7siii is going to wreck everything no doubt, might as well get my last laugh in now. 

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24 minutes ago, Snowbro said:

You forgot: bad ergos, menus, low bit rate, over sharpened at 0 setting, small lens mount, poor skintones, jumpy AF, expensive lenses, playmemories app no longer allows timelapses. Did I miss anything? Haha, the a7siii is going to wreck everything no doubt, might as well get my last laugh in now. 

Team Sony will have the last laugh

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1 hour ago, Snowbro said:

You forgot: bad ergos, menus, low bit rate, over sharpened at 0 setting, small lens mount, poor skintones, jumpy AF, expensive lenses, playmemories app no longer allows timelapses. Did I miss anything? Haha, the a7siii is going to wreck everything no doubt, might as well get my last laugh in now. 

Thanks for proving my point :)

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27 minutes ago, Mokara said:

Thanks for proving my point :)

Haha you started listing them off! I just helped finish the list lol. There are a bunch for every brand, I dont think we will ever find a perfect camera. 

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Alright, I need to rant. Slightly tongue in cheek so apologies in advance to toes I might be stepping on. Ok,¬†who with any kind of self respect uses a camera that has¬†‚ÄúFULL FRAME‚ÄĚ written on¬†the outside?¬†Yes let‚Äôs use a somewhat problematic term and paint it on the outside of the camera together with BIONZ INSIDE or whatever else crap is on there. I think there‚Äôs a f****g¬†‚Äú4K‚ÄĚ sticker on there too.¬†These labels, besides being reminiscent of labels on cheap hifi from the 90‚Äôs, is designed to re-assure the insecure gadget consumer that they indeed bought the FULL FRAME camera.

That’s how I view these Sony-trolls that pester forums online. And no, users of Canon or Nikon or Pentax et c are not as aggressive. Many Canon/Nikon users I know would never even write on these places. They don’t care about tech. 

Sony is exciting. Sony is FRESH NEW TECH. Prepare to get excited!

Sony of course know the buyers of their products and they know which buyers they target. Hence the labels, hence the heavy focus on specifications that look great on paper while ignoring ergonomics, colour, durability and so on. The targeted consumer is a male tech geek. These nerds are typically, in my experience, incredibly entitled to the TRUTH. Which makes them entitled and arrogant. They know they have God, sorry I mean paper-specs, on their side. It’s the same dudes that were insufferable know it alls in college. 

Yet these dudes don’t understand why most successful photographers are using other brands. So there’s the insecurity again. Better read over my FULL FRAME sticker ten times, calm myself with the 4K label, and then go online and write about all other cameras being shit. 

I can’t imagine anything less attractive than a man-boy who feels good about themselves by affirming themselves with the latest teddybear, sorry I mean spec.

I can’t imagine anything less hot than a man-boy who instead of gifting a beautiful photograph or video to the world, goes online to preach about the importance of AF speed.

I struggle to understand what a gigantic turn off it is to relate to camera brands as if they were football clubs. 

I fail to comprehend the sexiness of going online to shout ‚Äúmine is faster than yours‚ÄĚ as if six year old boys.¬†

I would never ever, even if somebody paid me two grand, be seen with an A7. Someone might spot the ‚ÄúFULL FRAME‚ÄĚ and with that, the writing is quite literally on the wall what kind of man I am.¬†

 

PS. Before you hang me please understand that this was written with intention of humour and not without cheerful self-deprecation. Have a nice day. 

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15 minutes ago, Castorp said:

Alright, I need to rant. Slightly tongue in cheek so apologies in advance to toes I might be stepping on. Ok,¬†who with any kind of self respect uses a camera that has¬†‚ÄúFULL FRAME‚ÄĚ written on¬†the outside?¬†Yes let‚Äôs use a somewhat problematic term and paint it on the outside of the camera together with BIONZ INSIDE or whatever else crap is on there. I think there‚Äôs a f****g¬†‚Äú4K‚ÄĚ sticker on there too.¬†These labels, besides being reminiscent of labels on cheap hifi from the 90‚Äôs, is designed to re-assure the insecure gadget consumer that they indeed bought the FULL FRAME camera.

That’s how I view these Sony-trolls that pester forums online. And no, users of Canon or Nikon or Pentax et c are not as aggressive. Many Canon/Nikon users I know would never even write on these places. They don’t care about tech. 

Sony is exciting. Sony is FRESH NEW TECH. Prepare to get excited!

Sony of course know the buyers of their products and they know which buyers they target. Hence the labels, hence the heavy focus on specifications that look great on paper while ignoring ergonomics, colour, durability and so on. The targeted consumer is a male tech geek. These nerds are typically, in my experience, incredibly entitled to the TRUTH. Which makes them entitled and arrogant. They know they have God, sorry I mean paper-specs, on their side. It’s the same dudes that were insufferable know it alls in college. 

Yet these dudes don’t understand why most successful photographers are using other brands. So there’s the insecurity again. Better read over my FULL FRAME sticker ten times, calm myself with the 4K label, and then go online and write about all other cameras being shit. 

I can’t imagine anything less attractive than a man-boy who feels good about themselves by affirming themselves with the latest teddybear, sorry I mean spec.

I can’t imagine anything less hot than a man-boy who instead of gifting a beautiful photograph or video to the world, goes online to preach about the importance of AF speed.

I struggle to understand what a gigantic turn off it is to relate to camera brands as if they were football clubs. 

I fail to comprehend the sexiness of going online to shout ‚Äúmine is faster than yours‚ÄĚ as if six year old boys.¬†

I would never ever, even if somebody paid me two grand, be seen with an A7. Someone might spot the ‚ÄúFULL FRAME‚ÄĚ and with that, the writing is quite literally on the wall what kind of man I am.¬†

 

PS. Before you hang me please understand that this was written with intention of humour and not without cheerful self-deprecation. Have a nice day. 

I once saw a guy in a suit that had a small tommy hilfiger logo on it; that let us know he spent less than us on his suit. 

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I do think it takes two to tango. There are a couple of aggravating factors. First most Sony users are recent ex-Canon or ex-Nikon users and some tend to have the irritating habit of going back to their old stomping grounds (Canikon forums) and telling people how ‚Äėfab‚Äô there new camera is.

Second, there has historically been the whole dslr v mirrorless debate which has tended to lead to dslr users being anti-Sony which is the perfect recipe to clash with Sony fan-boyism. I mean I once saw someone post that he/she would never ever be seen with a Sony A7 even if someone paid two grand...

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Actually, I think many are STILL users of Canon, Nikon and other systems using Sony alongside (Canon especially since there were AF adapters for E mount before the A7 series cameras came along).

Since they use those systems or did recently, should they still be entitled to post in those forums?      If they see something posted by an ANTI-Sony poster that is contrary to what their experience is, should they not respond if they disagree?

A lot of this seems to based on people thinking it is ok to knock a brand in a forum for a different brand without being called out.

ALL systems have their strengths and weaknesses.     Why is it ok to disparage Sony but not the others?   (I don't make negative posts about stuff I don't use, at most I would say why it isn't for me).      In plenty of forums, there are posters for and against Sony that if I see a topic and a posters name in the thread, I pretty much know if it will be a negative post or a positive one (about various brands I use) and there are far more that I KNOW will be anti-Sony than pro and often it will be just another opportunity to post something negative that might be completely off that topic

I  still see posts about Sony and root kit issues!            Just as easy to post negative stuff about lots of brands (if I was anti Samsung, I could be posting about Samsung gear causing houses to burn down!).        I have a cheap Samsung camera sitting next to me by the way alongside THREE Canons (one I don't use).

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4 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

I do think it takes two to tango. There are a couple of aggravating factors. First most Sony users are recent ex-Canon or ex-Nikon users and some tend to have the irritating habit of going back to their old stomping grounds (Canikon forums) and telling people how ‚Äėfab‚Äô there new camera is.

Second, there has historically been the whole dslr v mirrorless debate which has tended to lead to dslr users being anti-Sony which is the perfect recipe to clash with Sony fan-boyism. I mean I once saw someone post that he/she would never ever be seen with a Sony A7 even if someone paid two grand...

i'm trying real hard to be a bm fanboy but there's this issue of no camera to go on about, but for two grand i'd lower my standards enough to be seen¬† up with a sony ūüėČ

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There is this sony fanboy in a finnish facebook forum (man I hate this modern facebook crap) who has been spouting the gospel of Sony for about six years. That's a long ass time. I remember his posts from the times of the Sony Nex-7. Now he is strongly on the A7 bandwagon. The thing is though... he doesn't really shoot anything that looks that great. Neither do I but there is a disconnect when I see postings where somebody gushes about a camera but never shows anything he has shot with it and when he does, it looks like shit. This isn't a Sony thing necessarily but that guy was.

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42 minutes ago, hmcindie said:

There is this sony fanboy in a finnish facebook forum (man I hate this modern facebook crap) who has been spouting the gospel of Sony for about six years. That's a long ass time. I remember his posts from the times of the Sony Nex-7. Now he is strongly on the A7 bandwagon. The thing is though... he doesn't really shoot anything that looks that great. Neither do I but there is a disconnect when I see postings where somebody gushes about a camera but never shows anything he has shot with it and when he does, it looks like shit. This isn't a Sony thing necessarily but that guy was.

That reminds me of a time I saw someone on the forums, that had no freaking idea what he was doing and bought around $20,000 in cinema gear. He just shot 8 bit handheld in auto modes and threw a horrible free orange and teal lut on his footage. Then posted every day asking how to improve. I believe he had no intention to do it professionally and was not extremely wealthy, so it was a head scratcher for me. I hope someone pointed him to resources to study up on, but if I remember right, he was too lazy to do it. I had never seen footage from that camera look so bad. 

There seem to be many people who come from the cell phone spec fetish realm, that get into video & they just shoot stuff on auto. I can't stand most of the youtube reviews on products, I know it's probably shot at 30p, 1/6000th shutter, F11 with +20 sharpening and a free lut added + template whip transitions. Like you say, it does a disservice to the product. 

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2 hours ago, Snowbro said:

 I can't stand most of the youtube reviews on products, I know it's probably shot at 30p, 1/6000th shutter, F11 with +20 sharpening and a free lut added + template whip transitions. Like you say, it does a disservice to the product. 

This comment actually made me mad irl. Those people need to be stopped.

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It's probably cos they're sold on specs, and spec arguments attract that kinda crowd.

Same with Red. Most high-end is still shot on Arri no matter how many pixels Red chuck in, but that doesn't stop the red fanboys going postal on threads all over the shop.

I actually owned a Red for a while and it was good, but a bit heavy-duty for the kind of stuff we use in-house cameras for.

I always sold Sonys after finding them hard to use in post, but hopefully the next batch will have nicer colour.

Tools are always part of a working process, but for some people they'll always be the real obsession.

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