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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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24 minutes ago, jonpais said:

BMD is a small player, they're probably not even on Panasonic's radar.

How it could be so - of course, speaking not about all Panasonic products branches, but prosumer camera sector ? This is (or will be) the most direct impact on the same camera territory and mostly - although not identical - to the same user base. But it is hard to believe that Panasonic has not answer in its hand... I think that it is just matter of (sooner) time that Panasonic will react - with firmware or with announcing of new model.

(I'm far of any visionary of prediction, but 2-3 months ago pure logic said to me that GH5s with its price would probably be financial fiasco... Actually, I even claimed in Neuman's thread that it wouldn't be long time that Panasonic will be forced to account on including prores and even raw in its GH* offer - and than I strictly pointed at Blackmagic as cause.)

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52 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Just for the record, the GH5 does not shoot garbage plastic looking footage. And while the Pocket 4K is probably awesome, it does not suddenly make shooting Panasonic Log obsolete. 

 

I don't think they are mutually exclusive either.

Its more the GH5s that has the problem as far as I can see.

Prices of a used GH5 are currently dipping below £1.2k and will be further deflated by the time the Pocket 4K  actually arrives to be more or less a flat £1k.

If you add in the value of the full version of Resolve then that means you could have a GH5 AND the Pocket 4K with Resolve for pretty much the same price as the GH5s and Resolve.

In that scenario, where I could have the best of both worlds in terms of a highly featured and capable all rounder AND a cinema oriented one for the same total price (especially as they share a common lens system) then I'd really struggle to choose the GH5s over that.

 

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9 minutes ago, anonim said:

How it could be so - of course, speaking not about all Panasonic products branches, but prosumer camera sector ? This is (or will be) the most direct impact on the same camera territory and mostly - although not identical - to the same user base. But it is hard to believe that Panasonic has not answer in its hand... I think that it is just matter of (sooner) time that Panasonic will react - with firmware or with announcing of new model.

(I'm far of any visionary of prediction, but 2-3 months ago pure logic said to me that GH5s with its price would probably be financial fiasco... Actually, I even claimed in Neuman's thread that it wouldn't be long time that Panasonic will be forced to account on including prores and even raw in its GH* offer - and than I strictly pointed at Blackmagic as cause.)

Just look around you - everyone is shooting Canon, Sony, Fuji and maybe Panasonic (not here in VN). Not a single BMD camera in sight. Ever. Maybe things are different in your neck of the woods.

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21 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Panasonic also tends to be an innovator leader these utmost announcements put to rest or they risk to at least.

Totally agree. Maybe above all specs, new Pocket is, I think, challenge of similar market profile-character or, in another word, of signature to Panasonic.

Gap between them is now - at least on the paper - very narrow. Rest of the bigger difference may be - on the BM lack-side: not so great reliability, i.e. history of plenty of bugs; on Panny side: protecting its own upper line by sparing in specs. But convergency - and profit on the side of users - is, I think, obvious.

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Let me be perfectly clear - I have no interest in how large a company is or sales figures. The Pocket 4K looks sensational. We can hope it will spur Panasonic on to offer RAW, but... remember when everyone was saying Sony would have to offer 10-bit and 4K 60p because of the GH5? Just sayin'...

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15 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Just look around you - everyone is shooting Canon, Sony, Fuji and maybe Panasonic (not here in VN). Not a single BMD camera in sight. Ever. Maybe things are different in your neck of the woods.

I don't think that it is too valid argument - simply because I think that GH* and Pocket don't at all reckon of "everyone" as targeted user. GH* line is near strictly indie film maker tool - and yes, around me there are many (of that user profile) that use it, actually more than Canon etc. (In fact, I don't know anybody that use Fuji or Sony A7* line for such purpose.) BMD side vise - there are Cinema, Pocket and Micropocket users - but actually here question is, I think, not what is state of the facts now, but what will be with new Pocket as offer.

6 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Let me be perfectly clear - I have no interest in how large a company is or sales figures. The Pocket 4K looks sensational. We can hope it will spur Panasonic on to offer RAW, but... remember when everyone was saying Sony would have to offer 10-bit and 4K 60p because of the GH5? Just sayin'...

I think you know it better than me - Sony as example is not comparable, simply (aside of sensor-maker luxury ) because of one trump that always exists in Sony's sleeve: mantra of full frame.

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I'm not sure why you posted those links. One seller has only 21 reviews, I'd never buy from them. But if the price of the GH5 and GH5s drop, that's cool by me. 

I realize the focus is on Panasonic, but theoretically, this should also affect Sony, Canon, Olympus, Fuji and the rest. All this speculation about the demise of Panasonic is hurting my poor brain.

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5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Well Jon is right, this camera is not right for the vast majority of people. It has too complex of a Codec for the average person for one reason. And I really doubt AF will be great, not that the GH5 is special either, and no IBIS is a bummer for a lot of people now. I must admit it would have been nice to have it. I am a tripod guy so in reality you have to turn it off on one, so no biggy to me it's not there.

But this Run n Gun trying to get Stabilization and AF right all the time I think is a bridge too far. Not a big fan of the Flying look and wonky looking AF that can happen when you push it too far. Now I don't want to see motion like crazy either. But different strokes for different folks. I mean I will probably buy a stabilizer for mine if I get one. There are times it works no doubt.

I remember a few short years ago all the "pros" made fun of us hobbyists for even talking about autofocus.  Now we have a 4k pocket with a decent screen a ton of modern connections, and a bigger sensor and we are now being told lack of AF and IBIS is some fatal flaw!

For $1300 with DaVinci Resolve I have no complaints.  A tripod or monopod for such a light camera is not a massive inconvenience.  And I use IS on my Canon lenses via a speedbooster.  It is no substitute for IBIS + IS lenses but it does help a lot with micro jitters.

Nontrolls should start a Blackmagic Pocket 4k alternative thread.  I would love to see people's analysis on using other cameras.  If you exclude the price of DaVinci resolve the GH5 is DOUBLE the price.

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I posted selling links because I think it may be useful to someone. I bought several items from uk base eglobal and can confirm its reliability. (Month ago they sold GH5s for about 1550 pounds.) Granted, I didn't look of the profile of amazon seller - but also I had no any bad experience with amazon sellers - actually I think you (Jon) also reckon on them when suggesting price of veydras lenses for 800 $.

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56 minutes ago, jonpais said:

BMD is a small player, they're probably not even on Panasonic's radar. If anyone is interested in RAW HDMI out, they should keep requesting it in the forums and on YT channels that review Panasonic products.

They should be on everyonce radar, they are doing a great job.

I am not saying, that the GH5s looses all it's advantages. It still has the most capabilities for a combined machine, doing both stills and video. 
Especially the combination of GH5 and GH5s is interesting. Similar color science and easy to match. And of course, the GH5s has to be viewed as a whole. It probably does stills better than the BMPCC and has a lot of features for stills photographers, that the BM won't offer.

But if you compare the GH5s and the BMPCC 4K purely for their video specs, the BM looks to be a bargain. 

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If Veydras drop to $500 and the GH5 to $1,000, I'm all in. But I resent people calling me a troll when I have practically nothing but good things to say about the Pocket, and only get edgy when people feel it necessary to trash my own camera, many of whom have never even shot with it. Is it sacrilege to suggest that if someone needs autofocus, they should look elsewhere? Or if they want to vlog? Or shoot underwater without a special housing? Of course not! And why pick on Panasonic? Why not look at how the Pocket will affect Sony, Canon and Fuji instead? Where does this hostility come from? It's completely unnecessary to trash one company to boost another. We get it already.

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I think this is a perfect camera to replace my old and well served GH4 and it will also get a perfectly tailored gimbal. The only thing where GH4 maybe is better is the weather shielding, that has been handy for few times.

IMG_6679.jpg

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5 minutes ago, jonpais said:

#1. Resolve LIte is free and is plenty for me.

No noise reduction and can't use as high a resolution as full resolve... to just name two issues.  There is a full list on the Blackmagic site.  I am happy Lite works for you but I had my eye on full Resolve for some time now.

6 minutes ago, jonpais said:

#2. I'm not seeing any trolls here. Care to name them?

No.  Not really.  I meant I would be interested in hearing people's genuine reasons for using other cameras not just internet fight nonsense.  The BMPCC 4k seems like such a no brainer I wonder what I am missing.  This is the camera everyone has been asking for six years.  If lack of full time autofocus and lack of IBIS are the main complaints then I'm all in.

Of course we have to see footage and in depth hands on reviews.  But if their claims are true I really don't see any competition for this camera.  A C200 can do things this camera can't.  A GH5 can do things this camera can't.  But those things cost way more.

2 minutes ago, Garug said:

I think this is a perfect camera to replace my old and well served GH4 and it will also get a perfectly tailored gimbal. The only thing where GH4 maybe is better is the weather shielding, that has been handy for few times.

IMG_6679.jpg

Do NOT do that with a Blackmagic Pocket.  The build quality on this new camera looks a lot better but I think you will have many tears if you use it in a situation like that.

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6 minutes ago, jonpais said:

#2. I'm not seeing any trolls here. Care to name them?

Yes. I'd beg everybody not to a priori think about someone's critical observations as fan's comments. In fact, I personally think it is most helpful attitude - what is good we likely could see in PR presentation, but for what is not so good we need help.

I'd be personally feeling stupid and even unworthy to repeat how new Pocket looks innovative and even redefining. But it is also true, I think, that reliability is the most important trait in the field. I feel some sort of silly owe to BM - but it doesn't prevent me to point at its less or more unreliable character in comparison with, especially, Panasonic solidness.

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