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IronFilm

Canon Full Frame Mirrorless is just around the corner?

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Not really. Canon already outsells Sony with mirrorless cameras and it seems like most Sony users shoot with Canon glass, so as long as they don’t do something stupid like Nikon is doing with their mount, I predict a lot of users will switch over.

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7 hours ago, IronFilm said:


Yet it was Panasonic that was first with 1080 24p, and for the vast majority of people Panasonic was "first" again with 4K (as the 1D C was so prohibitively expensive that most people could just about pretend it doesn't even exist....), ditto 1D X mk2 with 4K 60p as arguably for most people it was the GH5 which was "first" for them personally.

While I agree with your point about Panasonic being more accessible to the masses, that still doesn't make it any less true. This endless bullshit echo chamber about Canon being light years behind everyone else simply is not true. They're certainly innovating, they're just not pushing those innovations into the sub $2000 realm.

This reminds me of a great quote from Bob Lutz - a longtime auto executive that's been near the top of Chrysler and GM back in the day - he basically said its easier to build something with few price restrictions compared to lower cost/high volume items. He's talking about McLaren's and Ferrarri's compared to the Corvette.

1 hour ago, Django said:

say what you want about who started what first.. Sony is still currently the only FF MILC player. it's going to take a very solid first effort from Canon to make a splash..

Absolutely. But Canon being Canon - they will get a lot of ink when they finally do move into FF. 

Chris

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25 minutes ago, OliKMIA said:

 

Huhm, when people think of mirrorless, they think small dslr form factor (or range finder form factor).  This is basically a camcorder just re-branded as mirrorless.  Hell, with this line of thinking, canon could have rebranded their old XL1 as "mirrorless" too, right?

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2 hours ago, mercer said:

Not really. Canon already outsells Sony with mirrorless cameras and it seems like most Sony users shoot with Canon glass, so as long as they don’t do something stupid like Nikon is doing with their mount, I predict a lot of users will switch over.

that's exactly what i'm afraid of: Canon doing something stupid.. at least from us consumer pov.. canon's strong segmentation & cinema line protection seem too strong for them to all sudden give out everything on a MILC (FF, native EF mount, Dual pixel, manageable 4K, IBIS etc..) which is what they'd need to do to make videographers switch imo..

of course i'm hoping i'm wrong and that sony's success in doing both MILC & cine cams with some overlap will enlighten them to do the same. i'll believe it when i see it though..

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3 hours ago, OliKMIA said:
35 minutes ago, Django said:

that's exactly what i'm afraid of: Canon doing something stupid.. at least from us consumer pov.. canon's strong segmentation & cinema line protection seem too strong for them to all sudden give out everything on a MILC (FF, native EF mount,

If Canon does make a full frame hybrid camera, I hope it uses an EF-M mount -- unlike the EF mount on the C700 FF.

 

The FF camera could utilize an EF-M-to-EF adapter with a shape and reinforcements that follow the contour of the camera body.  By designing the adapter in this way, clueless EF lens users would never realize that they were actually mounting their lenses to an adapter.

 

This configuration would not only allow fully functional use of EF lenses, but one would also be able to mount a zillion other lenses, focal reducers, tilt-shift adapters, etc.

 

By the way, the EF-M mount should work with a full frame sensor, as the EF-M throat diameter is 47mm while the required image circle for full frame is 43.3mm.

 

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3 hours ago, Kisaha said:

For £26K I think I'd go for the Hasselblad H6D-100C and get some medium format RAW 4K.

I reckon it probably takes decent stills as well ;)

Now DJI own them, I do wonder how long it'll take to filter down to an Osmo !

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4 hours ago, mercer said:

Not really. Canon already outsells Sony with mirrorless cameras and it seems like most Sony users shoot with Canon glass, so as long as they don’t do something stupid like Nikon is doing with their mount, I predict a lot of users will switch over.

Only in Japan.

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16 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

Canon just one-upped everyone with a 120mp sensor that shoots video.

Actually, this Canon camera still has far to go until it can "one-up" this Forza camera from 2014.

 

The Canon model shoots 120mp at 9.4fps, while the 2014 Forza unit can shoot 200mp at 60fps.

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On 3/27/2018 at 2:10 PM, Brother said:

What video market? 1980s ENG market? Surveillance video camera market? Or do you mean the hybrid large sensor video market that Canon started?

Actually The first full-frame DSLR cameras were developed in Japan from around 2000 to 2002: the MZ-D by Pentax.

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The Pentax was announced in September 2000, demonstrated in Jan 2001 and cancelled in Oct 2001.

Contax announced the FF N digital in July 2000 and it was a camera that existed and sold.

If I remember rightly there were even earlier FF DSLRs.      I think there were a couple of Kodak contraptions that used both Canon and Nikon and at least one was FF?? my memory could be faulty though.

I am pretty sure that Canon's IDs which was ANOUNCED in Sep 2002 was in existence before that I don't think any of these companies copied the other but were all working on them at similar times.

EDIT The first Kodak contraptions all seem to have been either 1 inch, APSH (1.3x) or APSC sensors (could have sworn they had a FF one to of about 2mp for upwards of $50,000).

Kodak did have FF cameras in both Canon and Nikon flavours from around 2002.

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On 3/27/2018 at 2:10 PM, Brother said:

What video market? 1980s ENG market? Surveillance video camera market? Or do you mean the hybrid large sensor video market that Canon started?

Canon didn't start anything, hell there were Medium Format backs in the 1990's. Canon and Nikon were late to the party as they say.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodak_DCS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_camera_back

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Actually, the whole sentence from Wikipedia is

"The first full-frame DSLR cameras were developed in Japan from around 2000 to 2002: the MZ-D by Pentax,[25] the N Digital by Contax's Japanese R6D team,[26] and the EOS-1Ds by Canon.[27]"

Another one,

"In early 2008, Nikon released the D90, the first DSLR to feature video recording. Since then all major companies offer cameras with this functionality."

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The Contax N digital Wiki page says it was the first FF (again, I could have sworn there were earlier ones).     Though (also again), I am sure they were all being developed at the same time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contax_N_Digital

'The Contax N Digital was a six-megapixel digital SLR camera produced by Contax in Japan. The camera was announced in late 2000, and began to be sold in spring 2002, after several delays. The camera received mixed reviews from the press,[1] and was withdrawn from the market within a year of its introduction.

It was noteworthy for being the first full-frame digital SLR, with an imaging chip the full size of a 135 film frame. All previous digital SLRs had a smaller sensor, giving a cropped view (see magnification factor). The imaging sensor was a Philips FTF3020-C, which had previously been used in the Jenoptik Eyelike medium format digital back.[2] Pentax also planned to use the sensor in a full-frame digital SLR, the Pentax MZ-D,[3] but abandoned work on the prototype in late 2001. The sensor featured ISO settings as low as ISO 25, but the reviews noted that it had a relatively high noise level above ISO 100.[4] The next full-frame digital SLRs were the Canon EOS-1Ds of late 2002, followed by Kodak's DCS Pro 14n in 2003. Nikon and Sony introduced full-frame models in 2007 and 2008 re'

 

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31 minutes ago, noone said:

The Pentax was announced in September 2000, demonstrated in Jan 2001 and cancelled in Oct 2001.

Contax announced the FF N digital in July 2000 and it was a camera that existed and sold.

If I remember rightly there were even earlier FF DSLRs.      I think there were a couple of Kodak contraptions that used both Canon and Nikon and at least one was FF?? my memory could be faulty though.

I am pretty sure that Canon's IDs which was ANOUNCED in Sep 2002 was in existence before that I don't think any of these companies copied the other but were all working on them at similar times.

EDIT The first Kodak contraptions all seem to have been either 1 inch, APSH (1.3x) or APSC sensors (could have sworn they had a FF one to of about 2mp for upwards of $50,000).

Kodak did have FF cameras in both Canon and Nikon flavours from around 2002.

I have owned several used DCS Kodak's. The top end ones were in FF Nikon F4, F5, Canon  EOS 1 Bodies. Nikon's first. But they were not FF sensors in them. They were APS-H sized. 1.3 crop factor. Same sized sensor as the later Canon 1D series cameras had.

The best one I had was the DCS-460. It was 6mp. It was based on the EOS1 body. I bought it because I was using the EOS 1n at the time so it had basically the same exact body.

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