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IronFilm

Canon Full Frame Mirrorless is just around the corner?

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Yeah, my memory is faulty, it seems they were 1", APSC and APSH.      I do remember seeing the prices from some of those that seem like a digital box welded to the bottom of a film SLR and thinking you could buy a (lesser) house at the time for the same amount.    It does seem like the 6mp Contax was the first FF.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
41 minutes ago, noone said:

Yeah, my memory is faulty, it seems they were 1", APSC and APSH.      I do remember seeing the prices from some of those that seem like a digital box welded to the bottom of a film SLR and thinking you could buy a (lesser) house at the time for the same amount.    It does seem like the 6mp Contax was the first FF.

I think you are right. The DCS-460 I had cost $26,000.00 new. I paid 6000 bucks for it when I bought it used.  But I made a lot of money shooting it. It was a hell of a camera, but they had Chromatic Abrasions from hell, so you had to use a Hot Mirror on the end of the lens. They cost like 600 bucks a piece for a normal sized one. They had no AA filter on them was the problem.

But back then all digital cameras were pretty much using CCD sensors instead of Bayer. I still think the CCD ones had Way better color than the Bayers. But CCD sensors fell out of favor because they sucked at high ISO. by High I mean like 400 ISO.

Medium Format cameras just changed to Bayer sensors form CCD's in the last few years since Sony started making the new sensors for them. One reason MF camera output was so beautiful. But then they still sucked at thigh ISO's. Not now. They are good up to like 6400 ISO with the Sony sensors in them. I think other than maybe Hasselblad they all use Sony sensors now, up to 100mp on the Phase One cameras.

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Well, my pet D50 has a CCD sensor and is about the same for DR at ISO 400 as the A7s is at ISO 6400 (and the difference is greater beyond that).

Still, the D50 has a flash sync with a dumb flash at 1/2000 and the Sony (or any other camera I have had) can not do that.

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Some of the old cameras were killer. I think the most advanced camera I ever shot with that I enjoyed the most was the T90 Canon film camera. That thing had every trick in the book in it. But they suffered from the top LCD panel that faded as time when on to you could not use it at all. I have had 2 of them. Great camera.

But I Loved the original Canon 5D. Wedding photographers dream at the time. I just sold the one I had for hell 10 plus years beginning of last year. My Nephew bought it from me.

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On 3/29/2018 at 2:46 AM, Brother said:

Agree to disagree!


Cheap large sensor HD video cameras with interchangeable lenses literally did not exist prior to the Nikon D90.

 

On 3/29/2018 at 3:56 AM, Trek of Joy said:

While I agree with your point about Panasonic being more accessible to the masses, that still doesn't make it any less true. This endless bullshit echo chamber about Canon being light years behind everyone else simply is not true. They're certainly innovating, they're just not pushing those innovations into the sub $2000 realm.


They're also not pushing it immediately into the sub $3K, or even sub $4K, or even sub $5K!!

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On 3/30/2018 at 12:47 PM, webrunner5 said:

But back then all digital cameras were pretty much using CCD sensors instead of Bayer. I still think the CCD ones had Way better color than the Bayers. But CCD sensors fell out of favor because they sucked at high ISO. by High I mean like 400 ISO.

My first DSLR was the Nikon D50 which had a CCD sensor,  which made switching over to the D90's CMOS sensor like a breath of fresh air for low light shooting! 

 

On 3/30/2018 at 12:47 PM, webrunner5 said:

I think you are right. The DCS-460 I had cost $26,000.00 new. I paid 6000 bucks for it when I bought it used.  But I made a lot of money shooting it. It was a hell of a camera, but they had Chromatic Abrasions from hell, so you had to use a Hot Mirror on the end of the lens. They cost like 600 bucks a piece for a normal sized one. They had no AA filter on them was the problem.

 
Do you remember what year you purchased the Kodak  DCS-460?

Wikipedia said that new it was US$36K!!
 

Quote

In 1995, the DCS 460 was the highest resolution digital camera available and its list price was US$35,600

 

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5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

My first DSLR was the Nikon D50 which had a CCD sensor,  which made switching over to the D90's CMOS sensor like a breath of fresh air for low light shooting! 

 

 
Do you remember what year you purchased the Kodak  DCS-460?

Wikipedia said that new it was US$36K!!
 

 

I Think it was either 1998 or 1999? I bought it from a camera store in Cincinnati, Ohio.  The person traded it in for a DCS 560. I traded in my last 2 Hasselblad bodies and lenses for it. My wife and I, on the side, were doing model portfolios and it just seemed like the way to go at the time. And at that time most model agencies wanted prints in B&W, and wow film was Hard to get right at the time consistently, and the DCS 460 had just a beautiful B&W output with the Hot Mirror off. And they only needed 8x10 prints for the model agencies from the models. And the 460 could do that easy, and quick also.

We had a full blown Dark Room at the house, and a photo, video studio, but it was time consuming compared to digital, and really pretty expensive with mistakes, and well trying to get the best results. We might take 50 shots or more , and that is a LOT of developing, printing effort. So the 460 paid for its self pretty quick. Plus we were doing a few weddings yet, not many by then, we wanted  a couple of Weekends off LoL. Plus we were doing video ads for local company's, so we needed as fast of a turnaround as we could get. We jumped on the digital era as fast as we could. I was lucky my wife was as crazy as I was about photography, Video. But she died of cancer like I said before, in 2002, and I just lost my desire to go on with it. She was 50% of the engine that made it happen. I could not have done it if I wanted too. Plus I had 1 young son at home yet. So I gave up all the Photo, Video stuff and just moved on as they say. We were Too busy to be honest. I sort of blame myself to this day that maybe all the stress caused the Cancer with her. Hell I don't know. Hell I had a heart attack myself 4 years earlier from running my Excavation Company. Stress will kill your ass I can tell you that. We were about as busy as you can get. And in our mid 50's. Too old for all that shit on paper.

My advice is to live as simple and debt free as you can. Having Lots of money isn't worth shit if you are gimped up or dead. It really is not worth it. But there are all kinds of people in the world, some can never stop working, and others who would rather not work at all LoL. It is what makes the world interesting. Be happy with a BMPCC or a GH4, A7s, unless you are making a living with Video. And if you are making a living doing it, well then you are going to be in a Never ending race for having to have the next best camera out there to stay on top! Been there done that! Not much to write home to Mother about at the end of the day when you get old and look back at it. Times goes fast as hell, but if you are enjoying what you do fine, but if you aren't, well you are wasting your precious time.

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Rumored specs [CR1]:

Look & Feel: large grip with top LCD, very comfortable to hold; dials are very similar to those we found on the EOS 5D Mark IV.

Side articulating screen

Sensor: Upgraded version of the EOS 5D Mark IV sensor, obviously includes DPAF.

Frame rate: 10FPS

Silent shutter and 1/16000sec shutter speed is available

Focus control is very similar to EOS 5D Mark IV’s 61-pt AF system.

Dual SD card slots

Video Features: C-Log 1/2/3, Focus Guide

Formats available: 60p/30p/24p 4K (both DCI & UHD can be chosen).

FHD 120p

Weight: not very light, but similar to Sony A7 but a bit larger due to the big grip.



http://www.canonrumors.com/here-are-some-claimed-specifications-for-one-of-the-prototype-canon-full-frame-mirrorless-cameras-cr1/#ixzz5BW1eMtww

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On 4/1/2018 at 8:54 AM, IronFilm said:

Which is smart to do!
(so long as they have smooth integration with their original F mount)

A smooth integration means an adapter. For us video guys, we don’t mind adapters so much. But will a professional photographer... (you know the guys and gals these cameras are made for) ...will they want to use an adapter with all of their FX lenses just to have a mirrorless camera? Each lens becomes larger so some of the benefits of the smaller form factor is gone and with every connection there is a slight risk of failure. Nikon has way too rich of a lens history to muck it up IMO. 

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1 hour ago, mercer said:

(you know the guys and gals these cameras are made for)

See this is the type of conservative thinking that makes Canon the way they are....

Video in Canon DSLRs or Mirrorless... will always be an after thought.

2 hours ago, Django said:

Rumored specs [CR1]:

Look & Feel: large grip with top LCD, very comfortable to hold; dials are very similar to those we found on the EOS 5D Mark IV.

Side articulating screen

Sensor: Upgraded version of the EOS 5D Mark IV sensor, obviously includes DPAF.

Frame rate: 10FPS

Silent shutter and 1/16000sec shutter speed is available

Focus control is very similar to EOS 5D Mark IV’s 61-pt AF system.

Dual SD card slots

Video Features: C-Log 1/2/3, Focus Guide

Formats available: 60p/30p/24p 4K (both DCI & UHD can be chosen).

FHD 120p

Weight: not very light, but similar to Sony A7 but a bit larger due to the big grip.



http://www.canonrumors.com/here-are-some-claimed-specifications-for-one-of-the-prototype-canon-full-frame-mirrorless-cameras-cr1/#ixzz5BW1eMtww

Its a CR1... and if its going to be a 30MP sensor as the 5D4 then expect the same 1.75 Crop.

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3 hours ago, Django said:

Rumored specs [CR1]:

Look & Feel: large grip with top LCD, very comfortable to hold; dials are very similar to those we found on the EOS 5D Mark IV.

Side articulating screen

Sensor: Upgraded version of the EOS 5D Mark IV sensor, obviously includes DPAF.

Frame rate: 10FPS

Silent shutter and 1/16000sec shutter speed is available

Focus control is very similar to EOS 5D Mark IV’s 61-pt AF system.

Dual SD card slots

Video Features: C-Log 1/2/3, Focus Guide

Formats available: 60p/30p/24p 4K (both DCI & UHD can be chosen).

FHD 120p

Weight: not very light, but similar to Sony A7 but a bit larger due to the big grip.



http://www.canonrumors.com/here-are-some-claimed-specifications-for-one-of-the-prototype-canon-full-frame-mirrorless-cameras-cr1/#ixzz5BW1eMtww

I don't believe this because I can't see canon putting clog 2&3 in a 8bit camera. I might be wrong but im sure clog 2&3 were built for 10bit+

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20 minutes ago, mercer said:

@mkabi well like it or not, video users represent... what... 5% of the market for these cameras. You can call it conservative but I consider it being realistic.

Really? Either that 5% is a lot (from the larger subset) or nothing.... but I wonder what the GH5s is aimed at? Surely 10MP goes a long way with photographers. Its not even that much of a difference from the GH5....

Also, that 5% spawned the whole cinema line...

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3 hours ago, Django said:

Rumored specs [CR1]:

Look & Feel: large grip with top LCD, very comfortable to hold; dials are very similar to those we found on the EOS 5D Mark IV.

Side articulating screen

Sensor: Upgraded version of the EOS 5D Mark IV sensor, obviously includes DPAF.

Frame rate: 10FPS

Silent shutter and 1/16000sec shutter speed is available

Focus control is very similar to EOS 5D Mark IV’s 61-pt AF system.

Dual SD card slots

Video Features: C-Log 1/2/3, Focus Guide

Formats available: 60p/30p/24p 4K (both DCI & UHD can be chosen).

FHD 120p

Weight: not very light, but similar to Sony A7 but a bit larger due to the big grip.



http://www.canonrumors.com/here-are-some-claimed-specifications-for-one-of-the-prototype-canon-full-frame-mirrorless-cameras-cr1/#ixzz5BW1eMtww

That sounds more like @mercer wish list more than reality LoL.  :grin:

 

I mean I hope like hell it is true with no big crop in 4k. Canon could Own the prosumer market if they just came out with a camera that is as good as the Sony A7 mk III. It doesn't have to be super groundbreaking, it just has to have 4k in it and not cost 3400 damn dollars. How the hell hard would that be to do. Shit easy as hell. Panasonic has been doing it for years on the cheap. Jesus just make it so. Hell I would buy one tomorrow just for the Colors Science and DPAF. Who the hell wouldn't.

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40 minutes ago, mkabi said:

Really? Either that 5% is a lot (from the larger subset) or nothing.... but I wonder what the GH5s is aimed at? Surely 10MP goes a long way with photographers. Its not even that much of a difference from the GH5....

Also, that 5% spawned the whole cinema line...

Well it’s still a big market so 5% is a lot of people but it would be pretty nuts for Canon or Nikon to abandon what their professional photographers would want in a professional FF mirrorless. 

Obviously, the GH5s is geared toward the videographer but it is a niche product for a niche market... it’s also questionable if Panasonic will make a huge profit off the GH5s. On the day of release, anybody could have walked into BH and bought one off the shelf... so it may not be as hot of a seller as Panasonic hoped it would be. But it’s also a great bridge between the GH5 and the EVA1... so even at a loss it could prove to be a success in the long run  

As far as the Canon Cine line... are there numbers out there that confirm the lion share of C100 or C300s came from a DSLR background? Or did pro camcorder users move over from the XH line into the C line?

Obviously, I want as much video features as possible in all of these cameras but there seems to be this neverending idea on this forum that video users are the bulk of users for these cameras and that Canon and Nikon should be introducing features solely for us. And it just isn’t correct.

If Canon releases a professional FF mirrorless that doesn’t have an EF Mount, it would be the dumbest move of the year. And I personally think that Nikon is making a mistake as well introducing a new mount.

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