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Sony a7 III discussion

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6 minutes ago, Robert Collins said:

I wont necessarily disagree with you but I think there is a high chance we are coming from different perspectives. What you say might well hold for 'jpegs' or 'video' but it simply isnt true for RAW.

I really don't know - I don't shoot stills, and without actually and strictly concrete testing between two cameras, I can not claim anything.

I have no prediction about including of raw capability - and I think that I surely,  you maybe, couldn't know what will be the state of quality than respective FF and m43 sensor. That I surely know is - if Panasonic GH5 include via firmware update raw video shooting as option - I'll be rarer in this forum :) Why -

because, actually, I restrain myself to speculate about theory. In my ideal vision of EOSHD or similar (not high-end filmmakers) community, we will help each other to spare money - that's what interesting me the most :) How - simply comparing concrete cameras in relevant variables and provide results of its combination in concrete camera.

In my ideal world, we have to unite powers and time and discipline manufacturer to bring to us just the best :)

As Frederic Rzewski told us with powerful piece of music (on words Sergio Ortega and Quilapayún) - The people united will never be defeated :)

 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
23 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@Robert Collins How can you presume Sony mirrorless cameras will offer RAW video  and at a reasonable price? Are you a Sony engineer? A stockholder? Why perpetuate falsehoods and wild conjecture? 

I dont think that prediction is particularly 'wild'. I know absolutely nothing about electronics but all I am really doing is extending 'Moore's Law' (which has held true for the last 40 years) into the next 10. Moore's Law states at its simplest that pretty much everything in electronics gets 'faster, more powerful and cheaper' by a factor of 30% every year.

As an example my Sony A7r3 is already capable of reading at least 8 x 14bit Raws (equivalent to 604mbytes/sec or 5,000mbits/sec) off its 42 mp sensor at 8 fps. That is enough to read 9 mp 14 bit RAWs at 30fps in 4k. Unfortunately no cards can write that fast but that is changing pretty fast. So I really dont think it is a huge stretch to say that ILCs will be able to write 4k raw video internally at a price point of say US$1500 within 10 years.

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26 minutes ago, Robert Collins said:

I dont think that prediction is particularly 'wild'. I know absolutely nothing about electronics but all I am really doing is extending 'Moore's Law' (which has held true for the last 40 years) into the next 10. Moore's Law states at its simplest that pretty much everything in electronics gets 'faster, more powerful and cheaper' by a factor of 30% every year.

As an example my Sony A7r3 is already capable of reading at least 8 x 14bit Raws (equivalent to 604mbytes/sec or 5,000mbits/sec) off its 42 mp sensor at 8 fps. That is enough to read 9 mp 14 bit RAWs at 30fps in 4k. Unfortunately no cards can write that fast but that is changing pretty fast. So I really dont think it is a huge stretch to say that ILCs will be able to write 4k raw video internally at a price point of say US$1500 within 10 years.

I think you are way off the mark, since you are neither an economist nor an engineer. And what relevance do predictions about what will or will not take place in a decade have to do with the here and now? We’re talking 10-bit, 2018, not holograms and virtual reality in the 22nd century.

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@Young What about Olympus, any clue as far as this issue concerns? I am wondering if this is something related to only Fuji's, PDAF cameras or actually more beyond than only there. I find it very seriously on this example posted from this new Sony camera.

It is rather funny like some usual suspects rest silent on this one... Actually a few of them, as for instance Yuryev, are pretty quick to identify all the sort of shortcomings on other devices (go figure GH5 series or Fuji :D) but when it is a Sony... well LOL :-)

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3 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

I wont necessarily disagree with you but I think there is a high chance we are coming from different perspectives. What you say might well hold for 'jpegs' or 'video' but it simply isnt true for RAW.

As an example here is a photo I took (on an A7ii) a couple of years ago - 'raw unprocessed'5a9924915ae55_raw(2of2).thumb.jpg.cac1170e62ca1b85b6c2237420ae8982.jpg

And here is the Lightroom processed image - you cant do this with M43 (and this was FF 3 years ago.)

5a992477b4e64_raw(1of2).thumb.jpg.2ea01491d3d7ce973c8946bac204c16f.jpg

Now, of course, I cant shoot raw video with my FF Sony (or 12/14 bit) but this will eventually come to video (and I would guess at a very reasonable price) and at that point M43 will be at a major disadvantage.

Funny. I find the above example much more interesting for the subject matter there in that picture than this whole hole this new high sensitivity offers. Not every tech aspect will really help this art and craft. Just thinking out loud here, not directly addressed to any side on discussion :-)

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Actually, https://www.technologyreview.com/s/601441/moores-law-is-dead-now-what/ 

That is an MIT analysis (no, I do not have a PhD from there, I do have one in Multimedia computing and programming though)

There are millions of articles on the web, the paper was written in 1965 and predicted "chip performance would double every 18 months". In 1975 he revised the forecast "doubling every two years", which held relatively steady until 2012. In 2015 Intel stated that "our cadence today is closer to two and a half years than two" and  Gordon Moore (of the "Moore's law" fame) stated "I see Moore's law dying here in the next decade or so".

P.S who the hell is Gordon Zernich?! That "Down vote button" seems very aggressive to me. I haven't used it, and I will never. You can disagree with other people, in words, or without up voting, the down vote thing is one step before actual (fictional - actual!) violence. 

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APSC strikes the best balance for image quality, size, weight and cost. I used 135 format in the past but the difference in cost and weight of respective lens systems was eye opening.

If hyper short depth of field is important I can see why 135 makes more sense but otherwise I don’t see it. 

Made prints that were over a meter wide for exhibition from my X-Pro and I’m certain nobody would be able to tell the difference.

Canon and Nikon don’t make good enough APSC lens systems - it’s implied that one should “upgrade” to 135. My guess is that most people don’t even make A2 sized prints. 

Look at this from around 11:30.

 

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3 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Will the a7 III cannibalize sales of the a7r III?

Yes! Does anyone knows the exact differences between them (except the obvious smaller mega pixel count)?

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I decided to go with the a7rIII instead of the A7III. 

Other than the availability & megapixels, in video specifically, the main differences were that A7III has worse rolling shutter but is better in low light and has better resolution in FF. That's all I could find really. 

I am going to wait until the A7sIII is announced as well (around the time that the A7III would be available anyways) and I might sell the A7rIII for it. 

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3 hours ago, Don Kotlos said:

I decided to go with the a7rIII instead of the A7III. 

Other than the availability & megapixels, in video specifically, the main differences were that A7III has worse rolling shutter but is better in low light and has better resolution in FF. That's all I could find really. 

I am going to wait until the A7sIII is announced as well (around the time that the A7III would be available anyways) and I might sell the A7rIII for it. 

Need to see figures, but assuming that S35 mode on the A7III will have 1:1 pixel readout for 4K, which could be significantly faster than the 6K downsample from the whole sensor. So if you want minimum rolling shutter, and extra reach for action, then crop mode might be a good option.

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Some of the physical differences.

a7riii/a9 has better evf 

a7riii/a9 has a better screen. A7iii 920 000 dots / a7riii has  1440 000 dots

This is probably the reason battery lasts longer on A7III

a7iii has a plastic back plate on the camera and not magnesium like a7riii/a9. This may have an effect on heat. 

Lesser memory in the the a7iii and maybe different cpu but this is not confirmed.

apprantly a7iii is rated for 200k actuations and 500k on a7riii. But I have not found a reliable source of info on that. 

They could be using an older shutter and maybe this is why there is no pixel shift feature.

I did not see any claims one ibis either? 

 

 

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I want this camera so badly, but I’ve already got $7,000 tied up in my Fuji X-T2 system and it looks like I’ll be getting the Veydra X-mounts next week after all. So now it’s just on my dream list.

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And he said the same thing about another Sony which turned out to be less true for some people. Im always a bit aware about the earliest reviews done in a day or a week.

I like to wait until people like Marten or PB have used it for at least a month or so.

But I agree , he does a good job and Ive followed him since the NX1.

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