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Dave Maze

Fuji X-H1. IBIS, Phase Detect 4K beast?

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Nobody said anything about abandoning anything. If you want the greatest dynamic range, you must shoot at base (or native) ISO. As gain is increased, dynamic range drops. Increasing the ISO does not increase sensor exposure. If you are shooting in extremely low light and must shoot at high ISOs, go right ahead. As far as not needing much dynamic range in low light, I'm not so certain about that. It would be best to have as much dynamic range as possible, low light or not, am I wrong? That is the whole idea behind dual ISO. Incidentally, I'm not a pro, but I always bring along LED lights and a reflector on my shoots.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

Tell that to Michael Mann. 

You literally said ETTR means adjusting aperture. And I am saying that it means exposing to the right. All of this talk about sensor exposure, gain, blah blah blah means absolutely nothing if you’re trying to get a shot underneath a street light without any, major additional light... so you open up your lens and push your ISO to an acceptable level and you get the shot.

When you increase ISO, does it change the in camera meter reading?

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That's right, Glenn - when shooting HLG, I set zebras at 90%, Cinelike D 100% and adjust the aperture until the stripes just disappear from the important highlights.  If I'm working in low light and have to raise my ISO, I'm less concerned about ETTR. bLAH, BLAh, blaH. It's not the law, it's a guideline. Do whatever you like. But I always bring along a reflector and LED with me. Maybe that's too difficult to understand.

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47 minutes ago, mercer said:

ETTR means Expose To The Right. We have 3 in camera tools to do that... aperture, shutter speed and ISO. Since most filmmakers follow the 180 Degree rule, we have two ways... aperture and ISO.

Sure in a perfect world, you would keep the ISO as low as possible... or as close to the base ISO as possible and you would use lights or bounce boards to aid in your exposure... But we aren’t professional filmmakers shooting Hollywood films, so to completely abandon ISO as an exposure tool, seems ridiculous to me.

ISO is the digital equivalent of ASA. High speed film was invented for lowlight shooting and always had more grain. Sometimes you need to make sacrifices to get the shot. Obviously, your specific camera will dictate how far you can push your ISO from its base, and the further away from the base ISO, the less dynamic range you will have, but if you need to shoot in lowlight, you usually won’t need as much dynamic range anyway.

"and the further away from the base ISO, the less dynamic range you will have" Well I have no clue how it works, but in video with Log you have the most DR you can get in a camera, and Log stuff is shot at pretty damn high ISO's on average. You have no choice over it. Yeah in Photo mode, hell you are lucky to have 3 DR at high ISO's

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3 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

"and the further away from the base ISO, the less dynamic range you will have" Well I have no clue how it works, but in video with Log you have the most DR you can get in a camera, and Log stuff is shot at pretty damn high ISO's on average. You have no choice over it. Yeah in Photo mode, hell you are lucky to have 3 DR at high ISO's

Actually this is a bit misleading. For instance, with the Sony A7r3 if you shoot sLog2 your minimum iso is iso800 and this should give you max DR. But if you examine the data (see Iliah Borg, Rawdigger) you will find that the A7r3 'actually' shoots the footage at iso100 (rather than iso800). Which explains why you have to shoot 8bit video in sLog - 2 stops overexposed!!

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11 minutes ago, jonpais said:

That's right, Glenn - when shooting HLG, I set zebras at 90%, Cinelike D 100% and adjust the aperture until the stripes just disappear from the important highlights.  If I'm working in low light and have to raise my ISO, I'm less concerned about ETTR. bLAH, BLAh, blaH. It's not the law, it's a guideline. Do whatever you like. But I always bring along a reflector and LED with me. Maybe that's too difficult to understand.

Jon you know what dude... screw you. You are single handedly ruining this site because you can’t have a civilized discussion with people. You do what you want. But don’t act like other people are wrong for bumping up ISO because your Leeming LUT rules tell you otherwise.

There are a lot of impressionable beginners or people that don’t have your disposable income and need to raise their ISO because they don’t have access to whatever lighting kit you’ll spend thousands of dollars on. 

I could give two shits what you set your zebras at... real filmmakers use light meters anyway.

14 minutes ago, Robert Collins said:

Actually this is a bit misleading. For instance, with the Sony A7r3 if you shoot sLog2 your minimum iso is iso800 and this should give you max DR. But if you examine the data (see Iliah Borg, Rawdigger) you will find that the A7r3 'actually' shoots the footage at iso100 (rather than iso800). Which explains why you have to shoot 8bit video in sLog - 2 stops overexposed!!

Good point on sLog2. But there does seem to be a pattern with Log profiles and higher ISOs.

Traditionally DSLR’s and DSLM’s base ISOs were at the lowest setting but once Log profiles were introduced, those base ISOs were bumped up. I assume it has something to do with each individual Log curve and how the information is stretched on the curve? So some curves need the additional brightness of the higher ISO to get a cleaner image?

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A reflector costs as little as $5.00. LEDs have never been more affordable. Check out DSLR Video Shooter on YouTube. For these shots, I just used a reflector that cost less than $9.00. But you're right Glenn, I'm uncivilized.

The first shots are a touch ETTR, the second shots have been slightly corrected in post.

 

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Screen Shot 2018-03-29 at 12.55.11 PM.png

Screen Shot 2018-03-29 at 12.59.15 PM.png

Screen Shot 2018-03-29 at 12.59.32 PM.png

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As far as I'm concerned, you're still alright in my book, Glenn. I'm not commanding anyone to shoot ETTR. In fact, the boxing clips by Bernard Bertrand were shot exactly how he wanted them to look in the the final cut, with only tiny adjustments in post. But again, he was shooting at high ISO in very low light, so ETTR was out of the question. Whatever works for you. I don't understand why you think I'm insisting people shoot ETTR. I could very well have given less exposure in the shots above and had less work in post, but the shadows would have been noisier and shallow depth of field would have suffered a bit.

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41 minutes ago, mercer said:

Traditionally DSLR’s and DSLM’s base ISOs were at the lowest setting but once Log profiles were introduced, those base ISOs were bumped up. I assume it has something to do with each individual Log curve and how the information is stretched on the curve? So some curves need the additional brightness of the higher ISO to get a cleaner image?

Honestly, all I really know is these conversations get horribly complicated, incredibly quickly. High isos provide benefits in low light by reducing read noise especially in low bit and dual isos can provide benefits in terms of cleaner images at high isos.

When it gets to the stage of adding 6 stop NDs to reduce light on a sensor, so you can shoot at high isos (like 3200) when an iso is effectively an electronic gain of existing light (which is bound to increase noise), it all begins to sound like nonsense!!

I also think it is unnecessary (for say my camera to say it is at iso800 when it is at iso100 internally). We are not supposed to be electrical engineers...

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47 minutes ago, Robert Collins said:

When it gets to the stage of adding 6 stop NDs to reduce light on a sensor, so you can shoot at high isos (like 3200) when an iso is effectively an electronic gain of existing light (which is bound to increase noise), it all begins to sound like nonsense!!

 

Yeah but that camera at 3200 ISO looks like most cameras at 400 ISO. So it is really not a big deal noise wise. Yeah pain in the butt ND filters wise in daylight.

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23 minutes ago, Django said:

..and welcome to ETTR class today folks in the Fuji X-H1 thread! ;) 

just another wholly unnecessary nonconstructive comment. welcome to bashing time. You've already made it clear nobody can grade properly and now the principles of correct exposure are not a topic for discussion. I would think that anything that helps readers get the best results from their X-H1 would be useful.

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11 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

It certainly enjoys consuming batteries when its in boost mode thats for sure.

The good thing about the grip though is being able to power it externally if needs be.

They make the AF pretty tuneable so hopefully they might do the same with the IBIS but there is a danger with that much tweakability you can end up in a bigger mess so I could understand why they wouldn't. 

I'm debating whether to get the grip. Does it run off 3 batteries in total with the grip attached? So one is in the camera, and two in the grip. I believe battery life to be quite a bit above average (when not in boost mode), for a mirrorless camera. Although for stills, vs a Nikon D5, obviously it isn't going to run as long on a single battery. 900+ shots on the grip though, I believe?

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3 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I'm debating whether to get the grip. Does it run off 3 batteries in total with the grip attached? So one is in the camera, and two in the grip. I believe battery life to be quite a bit above average (when not in boost mode), for a mirrorless camera. Although for stills, vs a Nikon D5, obviously it isn't going to run as long on a single battery. 900+ shots on the grip though, I believe?

I would have advised, to get the grip as a bundle, since Fuji gives you another 2 batteries with it for free. So the kit comes with a total of 3 batteries. If you buy it separately, you don't get extra batteries. If you don't own the grip yet get it if the recording time is limiting or you want the headphone jack. If not, I'd keep the camera small. But that's just a personal preference. 

Oh, and the discussion about ETTR is really funny :grin:

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19 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I'm debating whether to get the grip. Does it run off 3 batteries in total with the grip attached? So one is in the camera, and two in the grip. I believe battery life to be quite a bit above average (when not in boost mode), for a mirrorless camera. Although for stills, vs a Nikon D5, obviously it isn't going to run as long on a single battery. 900+ shots on the grip though, I believe?

Keep in mind that it can't switch batteries when recording, which means recording will stop when a battery runs dry, so you have to plan accordingly.

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6 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I'm debating whether to get the grip. Does it run off 3 batteries in total with the grip attached? So one is in the camera, and two in the grip. I believe battery life to be quite a bit above average (when not in boost mode), for a mirrorless camera. Although for stills, vs a Nikon D5, obviously it isn't going to run as long on a single battery. 900+ shots on the grip though, I believe?

Yes, its 3.

I've had a few times with the X-T2 where it doesn't run them down in a sensible fashion where the internal one drops before the other two which means I have to take the grip off to get to it for swapping out which is a pain in the arse.

It can run without the internal one and just uses the ones in the grip so thats often a better solution as you can leave the grip on permanently then.

The problem I have with the battery life with my work is that I have to leave the camera on as it needs to be grabbed and be ready for work instantly like a DSLR would be and I found it a bit too docile in waking up again if I had the power management on. Added to the fact that I have to be in boost mode as well doesn't help so whilst it won't chew through all 3 in a game, it can, depending on how busy I've been with it, need one swapping.

What doesn't help with the X-T2 as well is that the power switch is extremely easy to move to the On position when its being transported in a bag so I had a few times of arriving at a stadium and unpacking a very warm camera that had ate 3 batteries so now I make sure its got none in when its travelling !

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1 hour ago, Attila Bakos said:

Keep in mind that it can't switch batteries when recording, which means recording will stop when a battery runs dry, so you have to plan accordingly.

If I film for so long then I hang it on the net ... then I need no battery at all :-)

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