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Andrew Reid

Panasonic GH5 - all is revealed!

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20 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I've shot with a few Sony cameras ( both consumer and professional ) over the past 10 years, and the Sony IPB encoded footage has never looked as good as the Panasonic equivalent. Which is why I'm not worried about Panasonic 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 footage encoded at 150 Mbps."

Something to think about.

GH5 18 Mpixel 10bit 200Mbs HEVC video has twice the efficiency compared to h.264. So it has 3-4 times more video image data than 4K 10-bit 4:2:2.

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51 minutes ago, Vesku said:

GH5 18 Mpixel 10bit 200Mbs HEVC video has twice the efficiency compared to h.264. So it has 3-4 times more video image data than 4K 10-bit 4:2:2.

Is 6K available at 16:9 aspect?..i think it's for 4:3...

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3 minutes ago, Georgios said:

Is 6K available at 16:9 aspect?..i think it's for 4:3...

It is 1:1, 4:3 or 3:2. I wonder why 16:9 is not possible. 3:2 is good for post stabilization and post cropping.

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3 hours ago, Vesku said:

GH5 18 Mpixel 10bit 200Mbs HEVC video has twice the efficiency compared to h.264. So it has 3-4 times more video image data than 4K 10-bit 4:2:2.

The GH5 doesn't shoot video with HEVC. Only in 6K photo-mode is the HEVC employed.

3 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

 

"Guy McLoughlin rutenrudi • 2 months ago

But the 400 Mbit spec is for an ALL-I format instead of an IPB format. From 10 years of experience shooting with both Panasonic professional and consumer cameras, the ALL-I formats rarely outperform the IPB formats at 1/3 of the data-rate. The only time I've ever seen an improvement is for high speed events where your subject is moving really quickly across the frame, and even then the difference in the finished image is not that big.

IPB encoding is really efficient but it requires a LOT of processing power to produce a finished image that matches the much higher bit-rate ALL-I encoded video.

Try comparing the GH4 50 Mbps IPB encoded 1080p footage with the 200 Mbps ALL-I encoded footage, and you will see that the 50 Mbps footage looks identical and occasionally better than the 200 Mbps footage.

rutenrudi Guy McLoughlin • 2 months ago

The 200mbit implementation of the GH4 is a joke, which is also why I don't feel that Lanny offers the great encoders that you claim.

Obviously it's not only about the Bitrate, but the 80-100mbit of a GH4 in 4K is already too little IMHO. Now you have way more data but not really the space to keep it.
For imagefilms and lowbudget stuff I can see how that's still appealing, for some users this is simply off, it's no help to sugarcoat this, especially when you think about existing formats and how they perform. And Panasonic is meant to rule with 2/3 the bandwidth, sure.

Guy McLoughlin rutenrudi • 2 months ago

But it's an ALL-I format, so there's really not much being done to the image. Each 200 Mbps frame is a separate entity that has nothing to do with the frames that came before it or after it.

IPB frames look at the frames that came before and after it, and only record the difference between the frames. This requires a LOT of processing power to work properly, or you end up with poor looking footage.

Generally when you compare Panasonic IPB footage with ALL-I footage shot at 4 times the data-rate, the IPB footage is pretty much identical, which shows just how good the IPB encoding is.

I've shot with a few Sony cameras ( both consumer and professional ) over the past 10 years, and the Sony IPB encoded footage has never looked as good as the Panasonic equivalent. Which is why I'm not worried about Panasonic 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 footage encoded at 150 Mbps."

Something to think about.

So, ultimately, strictly in terms of quality, IPB 150Mbps is identical, or better, than 400Mbps ALL-I?

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I am not expert at it, but it would seem that it might not really be any better if it truly is ALL-I. I must admit I find it hard to believe that the GH5 can do IPB 400bps internally. If so they are using some pretty serious computer horsepower to do it. That is a Ton of data to move for a "consumer" camera.

But I think I read that the Olympus EM1 mkII is using a separate computer just for focus alone. So nothing saying Panasonic can't do the same for data crunching alone. Just makes it amazing how much a Smartphone has tucked inside such a small body computing wise. Hell 50% of it is battery. We live in an amazing technological time for sure.

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- It's undecided yet whether the anamorphic mode will have the option to desqueeze or not

- The "6K" 24p anamorphic update due in the summer will use the full width and height of the sensor at a resolution of approx. 5000 x 4000 in h265 (although not 400Mbps h265, it will be a lower bitrate)

So, assuming that the h265 implementation is better than 150Mbps h264 IPB and/or 400mbps h264 All-I, this could be a great option for those who want to shoot V-Log internally without chroma smearing artifacts... as long as you're willing to shoot 4:3 and crop top and bottom when using a non-anamorphic lens.

The Panasonic rep in that interview knows his stuff. It's a pity the blogger isn't a little bit more up to speed on the Cinema5D controversy as this would have been a great opportunity to get an insight into Panasonic's take on the issue.

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@Neumann Films I don't recall anyone who's shot with the GH5 sharing  a great deal of information about the new exposure aids, the vector scope and waveform monitor. Did you find yourself relying on them much during your shooting? If so, could you share any thoughts on your experience with them?

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10 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@Neumann Films I don't recall anyone who's shot with the GH5 sharing  a great deal of information about the new exposure aids, the vector scope and waveform monitor. Did you find yourself relying on them much during your shooting? If so, could you share any thoughts on your experience with them?

The waveform was a little weird and it took up too much screen space for my liking so I just set Zebras to 95 and went from there.  

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3 hours ago, Chrad said:

Why don't Panasonic release an h.265 option for encoding 10 bit 4K? 200-400mbps. Problem solved.

I don't see why it should be exclusive to 6K anamorphic 8 bit.

And on that note, why not 400mbps h.264 IPB?

Why don't Sony, Olympus, and Panasonic release h.265? Because it's not widely adopted yet, and they'll be inundated with calls to their help center. 

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6 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Why don't Sony, Olympus, and Panasonic release h.265? Because it's not widely adopted yet, and they'll be inundated with calls to their help center. 

Sure, but they are including h.265 recording for the '6K' anamorphic update. Why not add it as an option for internal 10 bit 4K as well? It would solve some big issues.

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1 hour ago, Chrad said:

Sure, but they are including h.265 recording for the '6K' anamorphic update. Why not add it as an option for internal 10 bit 4K as well? It would solve some big issues.

Maybe because the masses who buy this camera will film everything - and I mean everything - at 4K60p for the first six months until the novelty wears off and the views die down. They will not care for bit rates or efficient codecs. Those who buy the GH5 as a production workhorse are in the tiniest of minorities and will likely only use its showcase feature very sparingly.

Just as the YouTube viewing market was swamped with rats scurrying about at 4am in deserted cities when the a7s first came out, it will shortly be swamped with slow motion skateboard gimbal videos from the end of this month onwards. None of them will care for h.265, let alone Anna Morphic or whatever her name is.

Panasonic need to make money and they do that via the masses and not the serious filmmakers, just as every company does that sells prosumer gear.

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30 minutes ago, Davey said:

Maybe because the masses who buy this camera will film everything - and I mean everything - at 4K60p for the first six months until the novelty wears off and the views die down. They will not care for bit rates or efficient codecs. Those who buy the GH5 as a production workhorse are in the tiniest of minorities and will likely only use its showcase feature very sparingly.

Just as the YouTube viewing market was swamped with rats scurrying about at 4am in deserted cities when the a7s first came out, it will shortly be swamped with slow motion skateboard gimbal videos from the end of this month onwards. None of them will care for h.265, let alone Anna Morphic or whatever her name is.

Panasonic need to make money and they do that via the masses and not the serious filmmakers, just as every company does that sells prosumer gear.

I wish I could like that post a few more times. Panasonic crams this device with more features than ever thought possible, thousands asking for even more. Sat through an hour and-a-half long video with one of Panasonic's representatives, super patient and good-humored, just fielding questions about why Panasonic doesn't do this, why don't they do that. Said it before, I'll say it again, Panasonic has given this community more than it probably deserves. And since Davey brings up skateboard gimbal videos, one newbie, who happens to only shoot BMX in extremely poor lighting conditions and is all worked up on saving for the GH5, I say he'd be better off buying a Sony a6XXX and he blows me off like I have no idea what I'm talking about. 

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22 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

The Panasonic rep in that interview knows his stuff. It's a pity the blogger isn't a little bit more up to speed on the Cinema5D controversy as this would have been a great opportunity to get an insight into Panasonic's take on the issue.

Yes pity he can't time travel a month into the future to answer flawed test outcomes, which blame 10bit for compression artefacts. Must work harder Panasonic ;) And give us 960fps 8K in a firmware update whilst you're at it.

By the way my GH5 is pre-ordered and should arrive on the 20th March in the UK.

So expect some decent coverage finally :)

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