John Matthews Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Finally, I will personally hold Panasonic responsible for effing up millions of hours of footage with Realtime LUTs. You're asking people (often beginners) to judge their footage on a 3 inch screen. What could go wrong. I'm watching footage from these youtubers that looks awful IMO! There's got to be a reason you don't do this in camera. IronFilm and PannySVHS 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 15 minutes ago, John Matthews said: Finally, I will personally hold Panasonic responsible for effing up millions of hours of footage with Realtime LUTs. You're asking people (often beginners) to judge their footage on a 3 inch screen. What could go wrong. I'm watching footage from these youtubers that looks awful IMO! There's got to be a reason you don't do this in camera. It's kind of fascinating how popular bad looking videos are. Lots of people take videos on phones, add snapchat filters on their 5" screen in direct sunlight, post, and people like it. IronFilm and John Matthews 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninpo33 Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Anyone saying this camera is underwhelming is hilarious to me. I just sold my 6 year old GX85 for $750 last week and this upgrade to FF for my little street photo/C camera is amazing. For really close to the same form factor I get new PD autofocus, full frame, 4k/60, open gate, VLOG, audio input…. AND ANAMORPHIC….!!! I understand that this might not be the camera for you but there’s no way this thing is anything but amazing for its size, features and price. I have an S1H for A cam doc/travel work and then an S5iix for B-Cam/gimbal. This S9 will live in my bag as a a back up, quick grab camera for unexpected shots or minimal low key stuff. Great action cam, mounted for interior car shots or just pocketable street stuff. To me this camera is a great sign that the tech from the older S-series cameras is making it’s way to a camera like this and that means the newer cameras coming soon will have some great new features. O crop (4k/60) looks like they’re trying to go after the Fuji X100V crowd with the custom LUTs etc… OK, not sure about the marketing and yes, always late to the party but what a fun party it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRV1981 Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Best update is the LUT features. The actual camera seems like a dud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Matthews Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 3 minutes ago, KnightsFan said: It's kind of fascinating how popular bad looking videos are. Lots of people take videos on phones, add snapchat filters on their 5" screen in direct sunlight, post, and people like it. The problem is when you look at the footage 2-30 years down the line or even after just a few hours in some cases. Some of that stuff will be impossible to fix. Hell, how long did it take Sony to come up with OK color science? They had engineers, colorist, and programmers figuring it out. Now, Panasonic wants Joe Blow to figure it out in unlimited lighting situations on a 3 inch screen. It doesn't sound like it's going to end well. Maybe I'm taking this way too seriously; after all, it supposed to be a fun camera. I can only imagine the dad/daughter conversation 30 years from now. Why do the videos look so weird, Dad? Was I ill? No, I put on this super cool blockbuster theme. I was going for the Micheal Bay look. Sorry. IronFilm and PannySVHS 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 1 hour ago, John Matthews said: The problem is when you look at the footage 2-30 years down the line or even after just a few hours in some cases. Some of that stuff will be impossible to fix. I guess my point is that, for whatever reason, these people don't consider it in need of "fixing," it's already how they like it. Maybe the real takeaway is that you and I are just old curmudgeons now lol. John Matthews, IronFilm, PannySVHS and 1 other 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted May 22 Super Members Share Posted May 22 Interesting to see how relatively lukewarm the YouTube videos have been about it. Particularly considering that an all expenses paid trip to Japan and an indefinite loan of a camera usually engenders a certain degree of "goodwill" from the "reviewers". For me, that means its either really, really average or they've all suddenly got religion. Which one is your money on ? sanveer and PannySVHS 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yannick Willox Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Here is an interesting take on the s9 and luts btw I really like the shots and color she gets out of any camera. tldr she raves about the high yield of jpeg soc and zero postpro. IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatstoomuchjam Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 3 hours ago, BTM_Pix said: that means its either really, really average It's absolutely really, really average. I'm not sure that even Panasonic would object to that characterization. I'm not sure if the S5 II sensor was new when that camera was released, but even that model is about 1.5 years old. So this is a budget version of a camera that could hardly be considered cutting edge. Almost everything about the S9 screams that a couple of years ago, someone in Panasonic management asked "People really seem to love that X100 V, what's our answer to it?" And there's nothing wrong with any of that. It's kind of fantastic that there's now a $1,500 full-frame camera capable of 6K (including open gate) which includes PDAF. It could be pretty great with Leica M lenses for now. I'm admittedly not super familiar with the options out there for L mount, but one really hopes that it inspires a bunch of decent small f/2 or f/2.8 FF lenses for the system - and not just a kind of shit 26mm f/8 which will probably be a reminder of the Olympus body cap lenses for M4/3 (and not in a good way). PannySVHS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 It's not a release that entices me at all but props to Panasonic for putting recording limits so people at least know how long they can record for. If you're absolutely deadset on releasing a camera that has overheating issues (ugh) the least you can do is be honest about it. Now if only other camera manufacturers did that.... I really don't know what to say about that lense, though. I guess it'll appeal to Street shooters? IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Matthews Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 (Re)updated list: Pros for S9 258g lighter Smaller body $300 cheaper than S5ii LUT mayhem if you're into that Cold shoe Pros for S5ii EVF Mechanical shutter Dual card slots Headphone jack True unlimited recording with a fan Way more buttons and customization in the body Proxy recording 14bit Raw files Better grip Weather sealed body Hot shoe for flash photography and XLR adapter Full-sized HDMI Clearly, if anything, the S9 is a true testament to how good the S5ii is in terms of engineering and size. For the form factor and l mount, would you prefer the almost 5 year old Sigma FP or the brand new Panasonic S9? The Sigma is 64g lighter and has a fan, but no IBIS or decent AF. IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 14 minutes ago, John Matthews said: For the form factor and l mount, would you prefer the almost 5 year old Sigma FP or the brand new Panasonic S9? The Sigma is 64g lighter and has a fan, but no IBIS or decent AF. I was thinking that over when I saw the S9. For me it's a toss up. I wouldn't use either one as a primary video camera, but fwiw I vastly prefer my travel/photo camera to have 10 bit compressed vs full raw, IBIS is quite useful for photography, and the rotating screen is great when you need it. On the other hand, I don't know if I could live without an EVF, and the Sigma at least has one as an accessory. And then there's the S5, which I got used at a fraction of the price of either one of them, and does basically everything I want but in a slightly larger package. It will certainly be a new sensor generation before I change anything. eatstoomuchjam, John Matthews and PannySVHS 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 Initial reaction, Panasonic dropped a dud with this release. Quite a few folks were interested in an L Mount rangefinderesque PannaLeica along the lines of Nikon’s Zf and Leica’s Q3, a true ‘vintage inspired’ but ultra capable hybrid. This is not it. Without the grip, this thing for any extended use is going to get frustrating fast. Not that you would want to use it for any extended time because for video you are capped to prevent it from having a meltdown and for photo, it’s pretty limited. So that leaves the ‘Content Creators’ (but seriously who would pick this over say a Sony EV Z1?) and willful photographers or videographers who enjoy trying to wrestle with less than appropriate bits of kit when better options exist. An ‘updated’ Sigma FP for 2024 this is not. Disappointing, especially with no sign yet of a replacement S1 line… PannySVHS, John Matthews and 92F 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Matthews Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 1 hour ago, MrSMW said: Initial reaction, Panasonic dropped a dud with this release. There should be more stuff coming out- fingers crossed! :-) They really went all-out again with the social media crowd with the S9. However, comments have been turned off on the release video (they were up for some time but I think everything went sideways). The $200 body cap is going to go down in history as the coolest looking thing that no one wants to use. Did all the good Panasonic engineers get replaced with disgruntled Pentax ones? Is that too harsh? Where's that Z6iii? Are there problems with parts? eatstoomuchjam and PannySVHS 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PannySVHS Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 The orange S9 will effect second market prizes for my GM5 to either go up or sink into pennies lane. Either way it might be time to sell it.😄 MP Lite is kinda interesting, 4k open gate video in 3840 x 2560, 10 bit 420. Combine that with an evf, internal flash / hot shoe and mechanical shutter plus headphone jack it's a winner. A MP Lite variante in 422 would be a great feature for future firmware updates and cameras. John Matthews 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Matthews Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 15 minutes ago, PannySVHS said: The orange S9 will effect second market prizes for my GM5 to either go up or sink into pennies lane. Either way it might be time to sell it.😄 The GM5 will never go out of fashion. I've been watching it on the used market and it's been going up and up. Soon, it'll surpass the brand-new discounted prices of 8 years ago- crazy!!! Why isn't Panasonic listening? Oh wait, they were and they came out with the S9. 17 minutes ago, PannySVHS said: A MP Lite variante in 422 would be a great feature for future firmware updates and cameras. I agree that this is cool. I like that and I'd assume that feature would make its way into the S5ii as well. Actually, I wish it were one of the proxy settings. There are also the 3x digital zoom feature which is fantastic; no more having to switch into pixel to pixel mode to get closer. The 20-60mm now goes out to 180mm equivalent field of view seamlessly without too much loss in quality in good light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Matthews Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 As always, Gordon has a decent review: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Calabros Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 If you wanna do LUTs in camera, you better do it with the help of AI, which changes the way it applies the LUT in different exposure and white balance scenarios while keeping skin tones in control. And only chips you find in modern smartphones can handle that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ac6000cw Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 51 minutes ago, John Matthews said: There are also the 3x digital zoom feature which is fantastic; no more having to switch into pixel to pixel mode to get closer. The 20-60mm now goes out to 180mm equivalent field of view seamlessly without too much loss in quality in good light. When I saw that in one of the videos, I had a sense of déjà vu - some of the old G-series m43 cameras from 10+ years ago had a combined optical plus variable sensor crop zoom system for stills operated by a zoom lever on the body. It was actually quite a nice feature, especially with a power-zoom lens. It was never available for video though. I wonder if the digital zoom feature will be added to the S5ii/iix in a firmware update at some point? As the S9 has no headphone jack, but does have Bluetooth 5.0, why not add basic Bluetooth headphone support to provide some sort of audio monitoring capability? I know there can be latency issues with Bluetooth audio, but it would be a lot better than nothing at all... Personally the lack of a mechanical shutter and the short record times don't bother me, and the variable zoom feature is quite appealing, so I could be tempted when the price drops - I think it's a bit high in comparison with the competition at the moment. BTW the full specs are on the Panasonic website e.g. the UK version - https://www.panasonic.com/uk/consumer/cameras-camcorders/lumix-mirrorless-cameras/lumix-s-full-frame-cameras/dc-s9.html - and most of the standard picture profiles seem to be there (Standard / Vivid / Natural / L. Classic Neo / Flat / Landscape / Portrait / Monochrome / L. Monochrome / L. Monochrome D / L. Monochrome S / LEICA Monochrome / Cinelike D2 / Cinelike V2 / Like709 / V-Log / REAL TIME LUT / Like2100 (HLG) / Like2100 (HLG) Full Range*) so I assume you don't need to mess about with LUTs to get them. John Matthews 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRV1981 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 4 hours ago, MrSMW said: Initial reaction, Panasonic dropped a dud with this release. Quite a few folks were interested in an L Mount rangefinderesque PannaLeica along the lines of Nikon’s Zf and Leica’s Q3, a true ‘vintage inspired’ but ultra capable hybrid. This is not it. Without the grip, this thing for any extended use is going to get frustrating fast. Not that you would want to use it for any extended time because for video you are capped to prevent it from having a meltdown and for photo, it’s pretty limited. So that leaves the ‘Content Creators’ (but seriously who would pick this over say a Sony EV Z1?) and willful photographers or videographers who enjoy trying to wrestle with less than appropriate bits of kit when better options exist. An ‘updated’ Sigma FP for 2024 this is not. Disappointing, especially with no sign yet of a replacement S1 line… Evz1 got me 😂 John Matthews 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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