Should I get the Sony FX3?

[Django]

2 hours ago, A_Urquhart said:

Of you watch the behind the scenes video I linked to above, you can see that most of the shots are actually done with a fairly minimal rig. P&S technik lenses and most surprisingly for me, a Tilta Nucleus M follow focus system! I have that system as a backup to my Teradek RT kit and really don’t know why anyone would choose it unless there were very strict budget constraints which this film wouldn’t have had. 

Those P+S Technik lenses are $25K a pop and I see some crane shots using GFM gear (also $25K a pop):

https://www.pstechnik.de/lenses/technovision-lenses

https://www.gripfactory.com/gf-mod-jib

Not exactly minimal or budget equipment. The handheld shots may be but that's not exceptional aside from Tilta which is obviously low-end lol.

I also imagine everything was shot using 4.2K RAW external recording. And there is clearly tons of VFX going on.

At that point there is little to no doubt you can shoot a feature on a mirrorless. Still impressive it was actually done.

Mirrorless has certainly gone a long ways!

The FX30 is definitely almost a bargain at its price point. Other advantages over the FX3 is it uses an oversampled from 6K image and S35 means you can speedboost FF lenses. FX3 can't do S35 unless you use clear image zoom hack but you're then getting sub 4K image. The FX3 still wins in low-light which is probably why it was mainly chosen for The Creator which has a lot of night scenes it seems.

[A_Urquhart]

29 minutes ago, Django said:

Those P+S Technik lenses are $25K a pop and I see some crane shots using GFM gear (also $25K a pop):

https://www.pstechnik.de/lenses/technovision-lenses

https://www.gripfactory.com/gf-mod-jib

Not exactly minimal or budget equipment. The handheld shots may be but that's not exceptional aside from Tilta which is obviously low-end lol.

I also imagine everything was shot using 4.2K RAW external recording. And there is clearly tons of VFX going on.

At that point there is little to no doubt you can shoot a feature on a mirrorless. Still impressive it was actually done.

Mirrorless has certainly gone a long ways!

The FX30 is definitely almost a bargain at its price point. Other advantages over the FX3 is it uses an oversampled from 6K image and S35 means you can speedboost FF lenses. FX3 can't do S35 unless you use clear image zoom hack but you're then getting sub 4K image. The FX3 still wins in low-light which is probably why it was mainly chosen for The Creator which has a lot of night scenes it seems.

Yeah, if the FX3 had a good crop mode Id probably chose it as a second camera as I do sometimes need a B/C Cam when working with the FX6 and FX9 so having a FF sensor makes sense but while I can’t shoot S35 on FX3 I CAN shoot full frame on FX30 with the Metabones speed booster so to me, the FX30 is the more versatile choice.
Also, when I’m B or C cam-ing to the FX6 or 9 it’s almost always with cine  lenses so the lack of AF with the speed booster is a non issue.  
I’m also a big fan of the over sample the Fx30 sensor does. Looks great and makes the clear image zoom super usable. As an example, I used it today on a small shoot with my Sigma 18-35. 
Clear image zoom gives me an 18-52mm 1.8 internal zoom lens with amazing AF if I need it and an image that rivals many primes. So versatile!

[bjohn]

34 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

while I can’t shoot S35 on FX3 I CAN shoot full frame on FX30 with the Metabones speed booster so to me, the FX30 is the more versatile choice

Does the speed booster also improve low-light performance, in the sense that you won't need as high an ISO as you might otherwise? If so, I think I may consider the FX30. I normally use older Blackmagic cameras but have started to get more requests to film under low-light conditions and those cameras are pretty much useless for that; I used my A7iii for the last shoot and it did fine but I'd prefer to have a dedicated video camera (I use the A7iii mainly for photography). I don't need fullframe necessarily, but I need decent low-light performance and the FX3 or A7siii are a bit expensive for my budget.

[newfoundmass]

1 hour ago, bjohn said:

Does the speed booster also improve low-light performance, in the sense that you won't need as high an ISO as you might otherwise? If so, I think I may consider the FX30. I normally use older Blackmagic cameras but have started to get more requests to film under low-light conditions and those cameras are pretty much useless for that; I used my A7iii for the last shoot and it did fine but I'd prefer to have a dedicated video camera (I use the A7iii mainly for photography). I don't need fullframe necessarily, but I need decent low-light performance and the FX3 or A7siii are a bit expensive for my budget.

Yes, a speedbooster will improve low light performance. I think the argument that the FX3 is better in low light is overblown. It's always nice to have, but 99% of the time you'll never need to film at those higher ISOs. And the FX30 is no lightweight when it comes to low light anyway, especially if you're using fast lenses, which you can buy with the money you save not buying the FX3.

[MrSMW]

I think…actually I know, that if I had not already been invested in L Mount when the S5ii came out, I would have gone with a pair of FX30’s with probably the A7iv for primarily stills but occasional hybrid use.

If Lumix (or Leica or Sigma) don’t have something like an S2R available by end of March, in stock, then it’s fairly inevitable for me it will be throwing my lot in 100% with Sony.

Pair of FX30’s and a single A7RV which will allows me to do away with the 70-200 and crop instead because you know, megapixels.

I would rather NOT switch primarily from a cost point of view because buying one single body and selling maybe one lens (the 70-200) if any ‘S2R’ has around 60mp, is a MUCH better option than trading 3 bodies and 7 lenses for a new system!

So we will see.

I think if making a decision from scratch re. a system for my specific needs at any point this year, it would be as above.

Nikon a close second and Fuji third.

Or maybe I’ll just trade the S1H and get another S1R which are uber-cheap on the used market now…

Cheap, but 60mp vs 47mp allows a bit more cropping latitude for my stills work if I want to shift the 70-200 and I’d rather have PDAF even though for stills it’s less of an issue.

[bjohn]

2 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

And the FX30 is no lightweight when it comes to low light anyway, especially if you're using fast lenses, which you can buy with the money you save not buying the FX3.

Thanks, this does make it interesting; the rolling shutter is an issue but for the kind of video I do it probably won't matter much. I use an A7iii and A7s for photography and have plenty of fast lenses, although only one is e-mount; the rest are adapted (Leica M, LTM, Minolta SR, Nikon). So I'd have to put adapters on the speedbooster, which would make for a bulkier package, or I could spring for one fast native e-mount lens.

[IronFilm]

9 hours ago, Django said:

Those P+S Technik lenses are $25K a pop

For professional cine lenses, that's low/mid range. It wouldn't have hurt the budget at all to rent them for the production. 

 

7 hours ago, bjohn said:

Does the speed booster also improve low-light performance, in the sense that you won't need as high an ISO as you might otherwise?

It gathers twice as much light. (but then you're back with the same disadvantage a larger sensor has... if you want to shoot at a given DoF, you are forced to stop down to match with a S35 sensor)

[MurtlandPhoto]

9 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

I think the argument that the FX3 is better in low light is overblown. It's always nice to have, but 99% of the time you'll never need to film at those higher ISOs.

Hmm yes and no. A lot of FX3 shooters, including myself, only film at the base ISOs to maximize image quality. Very often I'll need to shoot at ISO 12,800 and ND down to get the right exposure indoors. I'm also surprised how often I've found a good excuse to shoot at a super high ISO now that I have the option, too. 

[ntblowz]

You can't get FF view in 4k120p with FX30, so that one thing to consider, beside the extra 2 stop penalty in that mode.

[insch]

Thanks for everyone's advice. I bought the FX3 in the end and so far so good. Now spending a small fortune on SD cards, spare batteries, Metabones adapter and new SSDs for my Atomos Ninja so I can work in ProRes Raw. I've been looking into file formats for recording on the FX3 and considering XAVC S-I 4K or XAVC S-I DCI 4K but it seems that DCI is locked to 24P. Am I right? I will probably work mainly in 25P or 50P with some 120P shooting. Thank you.

[BTM_Pix]

I'm not sure who's more excited about this really.

You for receiving your new camera or the rest of this forum that a new member started a thread asking for camera buying advice and then didn't disappear never to be heard from again.

Well done on both fronts !

[PannySVHS]

Whereas others keep buying and buying stuff without ever asking anyone of their forum friends.😂

7 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I'm not sure who's more excited about this really. You for receiving your new camera or the rest of this forum that a new member started a thread asking for camera buying advice and then didn't disappear never to be heard from again.

Well done on both fronts !

 

[MrSMW]

3 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I'm not sure who's more excited about this really.

You for receiving your new camera or the rest of this forum that a new member started a thread asking for camera buying advice and then didn't disappear never to be heard from again.

Well done on both fronts !

One of your pet peeves also?

I have a new rule in that if they don't pop back into the conversation several times, I don't join the thread and expound my great opinion until such time as they do.

Wankers, the lot of them.

4 hours ago, insch said:

Thanks for everyone's advice. I bought the FX3 in the end and so far so good.

Good for you. Always fancied a bit of FX3 action myself but as a fully paid up member (at this time) of the L Mount Alliance and no hands on or rental opportunities where I live, only been able to live my FX3 fantasies vicariously.

I could of course have bought one off Amazon, played with it and sent it back for full refund. But I'm not a complete twat.

I did do that with an XH2 and before that, an OM-1, but in both cases I genuinely intended to keep each unit at that time. 

But anyway, enjoy your FX3.

[kye]

6 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I have a new rule in that if they don't pop back into the conversation several times, I don't join the thread and expound my great opinion until such time as they do.

Wankers, the lot of them.

I continue to participate in those discussions because I figure that there are enough people lurking who have the same question that it's worth answering it anyway.

In terms of them being wankers, I think one thing that we often forget is how completely overwhelming video can be.  I came to video from stills, and I'm a technical person who reads a lot, but even I completely underestimated the sheer number of topics involved and the depth of each topic.

Also, cameras are so compromised when it comes to video that simple questions like "what camera should I buy" involve considering literally dozens of trade-offs per camera, and that's before you talk about the wider ecosystem like lenses and accessories etc.  I can't think of any other product that is as complicated to buy as a video camera, where the tiny details make so much of an impact on real-world use.

I think a lot of those people asked a simple question and are simply overwhelmed by the replies they get.

[BTM_Pix]

6 hours ago, kye said:

I can't think of any other product that is as complicated to buy as a video camera, where the tiny details make so much of an impact on real-world use.

Go motorhome/camper shopping with my wife.

The layout deliberations makes my pre-purchase machinations over cameras (where they are almost always superseded before I finish my deliberations) look like impulse purchases.

I'm hoping that we reach a conclusion about which one to buy before I am too decrepit to actually drive the thing.

7 hours ago, kye said:

I think a lot of those people asked a simple question and are simply overwhelmed by the replies they get.

I think it might be a bit more prosaic and related to the authorisation period where their first post won't appear until they've been approved which can take a couple of days.

So they are likely just too impatient in this attention span of a goldfish with a markedly short attention span even for a goldfish era.

As well as being wankers.

[MrSMW]

4 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Go motorhome/camper shopping with my wife

That one was easy for me. She said, “it’s your thing really so you choose”. So I did.

Since March, 20,000km and more than 60 nights in it.

Typing from it right now on Day 16/32 on a 7 wedding road trip 😉