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Disappointing Panasonic GH5 Mark II specs leak in Japan – Where is the GH6?


Andrew Reid
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1 hour ago, Yannick Willox said:

What if the GH5 still is a viable camera, but due to older parts, difficult to assemble & sell. Hence the GH5 Mk II with a few small improvements ?

Perfectly viable, but a very tough sell.

"Would you like to purchase our mildly updated camera, or the very latest and greatest from someone else?"

These days, very few will pick the former.

I hate Sony. Actually, 'hate' is too strong a word, but to me (and yes, I do own a Sony camera and have had several recent models), they are just soulless tools.

But ultimately, what i need more than anything is something that delivers the results regardless of the badge.

I could make a very good case for Sony. Or Canon. Or Fuji, but there's just enough advantages for me with L Mount...but I know that if I was starting with a clean sheet of paper today, - no bodies, no lenses, no nuffin', it would be very hard for me to make a decision against Sony.

But 'viability'? Viability to who? Panasonic? A minority market? A majority market? It's the latter that will largely determine the success of most things and 'slightly updated when folks were expecting and wanting (much) more' product just isn't going to cut it in 2021.

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This whole topic is pretty much super speculative. The mft format isn’t going anywhere. There’s a whole eco system that’s been built and maintained for too long. As I said earlier, Panasonic isn’t abandoning it. They just released a MFT cinema camera last year with incredible specs. Most of the contributors here are missing that fact. I’m quite sure the GH6 is soon to be announced. This mark ii business is most likely a streamlined version. 

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22 minutes ago, Alt Shoo said:

This whole topic is pretty much super speculative. The mft format isn’t going anywhere.

Complains topic is speculative, full stop. Proceeds to speculate...

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It would be an interesting statistic to see what the figures are for folks buying into 4/3rds vs holding on to 4/3rds vs leaving 4/3rds.

I'd be willing to speculate that the biggest number is those leaving.

I'd also speculate that we would not be talking about pros or even keen enthusiasts, but the every day folks who bought something small and light at their local camera vendor and are now being advised increasingly frequently by the store assistant that full frame is where it's at.

But I'm just speculating.

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I would love a 10bit update for the GX series, with the awesome Super 16 crop mode. Starting to discover, what the system is really about, perfect size of body and lens, plus IBIS. Love the GX85 form factor. Give me the perfect HD, 10bit codecs and Super 16 mode of the GH5, swivel screen, minus the All Intra if you like. Put a price tag of 699 on it and skip the GH5II.

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28 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

But the every day folks who bought something small and light at their local camera vendor and are now being advised increasingly frequently by the store assistant that full frame is where it's at.

I'd speculate that the store assistants see juicier profit margins in something like a Sony A7C and nice incentives from the manufacturer plus good marketing and brand recognition, but that is just a rumour.

Anyway full frame is small these days, and the lenses shrinking too. That's another problem for Micro Four Thirds, one by one all the unique selling points get neutralised by the competition.

I'd speculate that's why we need the all singing all dancing GH6 more than ever, and clear signals of strength, rather than dumb GH5 Mark II leaks that undermine everything and lead us to speculate about speculation.

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1 hour ago, Alt Shoo said:

This whole topic is pretty much super speculative. The mft format isn’t going anywhere. There’s a whole eco system that’s been built and maintained for too long. As I said earlier, Panasonic isn’t abandoning it. They just released a MFT cinema camera last year with incredible specs. Most of the contributors here are missing that fact. I’m quite sure the GH6 is soon to be announced. This mark ii business is most likely a streamlined version. 

You know what would help out a ton? If Panasonic addressed the concerns directly and made concrete efforts to let their M43 user base know that they're committed to the system for the long haul. What we've seen over the last 3 years have been lackluster updates, like the LX100ii and the G95, or cameras no one asked for like the G100 (that I've heard nothing about since the initial release.) Now we're getting a GH5ii, again something none of us asked for, with modest improvements using the same 4 year old sensor. Meanwhile we've gotten very little concrete information on when a GH6 is coming, other than references to it in the rare interviews they'll do. The only thing of note that they've done in years with the M43 system is release that incredible 10-25mm f1.7 lens but it is nearly $2,000 and not a ton of people are going to drop that kind of money on a M43 lens, especially right now. 

That cinema camera? Those incredible specs are virtually identical to the GH5s, a camera released 2 years ago, with a few added bonuses. 

There's no one to blame but Panasonic for the reaction people have on this forum and the Facebook groups I'm in. They've done terrible PR, which seems to be typical for these major camera companies. I can go in the Z-Cam group and ask questions directly of their president but getting some kind of road map for the future of M43 from Panasonic is literally impossible. We can't even get concrete information on a GH6, which they should be getting people excited for! What we do have though are more people saying they don't think a GH6 is coming, while Panasonic twiddles their thumbs! 

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1 minute ago, newfoundmass said:

 

That cinema camera? Those incredible specs are virtually identical to the GH5s, a camera released 2 years ago, with a few added bonuses. 

There's no one to blame but Panasonic for the reaction people have on this forum and the Facebook groups I'm in. They've done terrible PR, which seems to be typical for these major camera companies. I can go in the Z-Cam group and ask questions directly of their president but getting some kind of road map for the future is M43 from Panasonic is literally impossible. 

I agree wholeheartedly with a lot of ideas and thoughts in this thread, but is it really a surprise with how Panasonic treats its customers? I do believe that Panasonic needs to get with the times and become more transparent with their customers. That goes for all companies from the old guard.

We can look at a company like Z-Cam to understand the benefits of accessibility through social media with almost instant interactions. This is where I think bigger companies will fail in the future if they don’t integrate this type of communication. Still regarding the GH6, wouldn’t it be downright ridiculous for Panasonic to disregard the demand for this product? They have seen continuous success with the GH series. I can’t believe they will stop producing the line because it’s too profitable. 
 

Yea they have FF cameras, but it’s still a new market for them. In the camera world their bread and butter are the Lumix line and it’s MFT ecosystem. It would be disastrous for them if they neglected this fact. 

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And to emphasize something...

20210512_120012.thumb.jpg.e9c4419398a4d43e8f2005fb3c1cb8f1.jpg

That's my go to multi camera kit. That's a GH5, G85 and a GX85. There's two 12-35mm f2.8 lenses (mark I and II), a 35-100mm f2.8, a 14mm f2.5, 25mm f1.7, a 20mm f1.7 and the XLR audio adapter. Not shown are the 42.5mm f1/7, a Olympus 7-14 f2.8, and the Pana Leica 15mm f1.7. And I had every intention of getting a GH5s before covid-19 hit. It still blows my mind that I can fit all that into one case, and if I really wanted to I could fit the lenses not pictured into a slightly larger case and bring it all with me to every shoot. 

There are people more invested in native M43 gear than I am, but I'm pretty invested. I'm not complaining just to complain. I want M43 to succeed! Do you know how wonderful it is to be able to throw the 35-100mm on the GX85 and get stable footage in 4K with such a small footprint? Concerts, festivals, sporting events, and anywhere else that has restrictions on what kind of cameras you can bring don't bat an eye at a tiny camera with a lense that's about the size of a can of soda! You simply cannot do that with an APS-C or full frame camera with a 70-200mm lens. 

It's a system worth keeping! Panasonic though seems to be moving on. 

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21 minutes ago, Alt Shoo said:

I agree wholeheartedly with a lot of ideas and thoughts in this thread, but is it really a surprise with how Panasonic treats its customers? I do believe that Panasonic needs to get with the times and become more transparent with their customers. That goes for all companies from the old guard.

Yes and no and in yes, it's always a surprise to me every single time, how some if not most companies treat their customers...but also no, it's no surprise, or should be no surprise!

I think it is mostly size, - the bigger they are, the less they are interested in the individual, but it does really irk me when a business large or small does not demonstrate care.

And that I think is the key thing, - demonstrating it as in at least trying to make an effort. 

Obviously, they are not going to give up every single bit of info, but I just do not understand how giving a road map is an issue?

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20210512_123031.thumb.jpg.0d942dee870a90e98199f7f866d53660.jpg

Seriously, give me more of this! Imagine if they figured out how to make it even smaller and more compact? 

14 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Obviously, they are not going to give up every single bit of info, but I just do not understand how giving a road map is an issue?

That's the thing, they don't even give us the bare minimum. Remember how everyone had a road map that covered the next 3 years when they entered the full frame Mirrorless market? There's literally no reason not to do this, unless you've got little to show for it. The times have changed, the camera market is becoming more of a niche. And the remaining customer base expects more transparency. And the thing is, it's easier than ever to do it! 

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5 hours ago, Yannick Willox said:

What if Panasonic are planning the GH6 ? What if the GH5 still is a viable camera, but due to older parts, difficult to assemble & sell. Hence the GH5 Mk II with a few small improvements ?

Then the bulk of this thread is moot.

Highly suspect this is the case.  With all the semiconductor shortages right now my hope is they're finding GH6 spec components are further out that they expect so straight replacing the GH5 doesn't work, meanwhile to be able to manufacture the GH5 it makes sense to switch out some of the innards to parts that are easier to get (maybe overlap with G9 etc).  

I'm in the same boat is many of you, with a selection of high speed M4/3 primes, plus the 8-18, 12-35, 35-100, 100-400 - very few of these are easy to replace in the full frame world even if money was no object.  (I take that back - hadn't realized just how many lenses were out in L mount now, if I sold both my cars I probably could replace them all, would struggle to get around on foot with all that glass though)

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1 hour ago, Alt Shoo said:

Yea they have FF cameras, but it’s still a new market for them. In the camera world their bread and butter are the Lumix line and it’s MFT ecosystem. It would be disastrous for them if they neglected this fact. 

Exactly. The beatings will continue until moral improves — or put another way, we’ll neglect m4/3s till you switch to L-Mount — is hardly a sound strategy. 

Since we’re all speculating here, here’s mine: much of Panasonic’s apparent disdain for m4/3 and attraction to ‘full frame’ is driven by one of the classic business motivators. No, not profit, don’t be silly. Ego. I swear the execs were at some industry conference and heard the Canon and Nikon guys snickering about ‘half-frame’ and felt inadequate. Now we’ve got the gargantuan S series bodies and lenses. Nothing unmanly about those!

As a corollary, that’s why stupid terms lead to stupid thinking. There’s nothing special about 135 format, either in size or aspect ratio, that lead to it being placed on a pedestal. At most it’s the largest format that tends to be on the latest sensor tech. Plus Canon and Nikon had a lot of legacy lenses in that format they’d prefer you to keep using, at least till you upgrade to their latest version. 

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On 5/11/2021 at 3:39 PM, John Matthews said:

I confess to not being a pro, but I still love the system. I tried FF, but just didn't see the value in it for me. If people want to sell their M43 stuff, I'm game. Slowly but surely, I'll be grabbing up all the "reject" M43 stuff until I have the best kit possible in the system. I'm loving all the talk of people moving away from it in hopes the prices will tank, but I doubt it will.

I moved to Fuji, but if the prices tank, will get back some stuff.

Will keep my GH2 and E-P1, since they value almost nothing, and were the cameras that ignited photo and video with me. My Oly 45mm have some external marks (caused by a loose step up ring in the same bag compartiment...) and probably will stay too. One of the Panny zooms, the 12-32 or the 14-42, probably will stay also.

But I will buy a E-M5 MK III in a hearbeat if the used price goes down.

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2 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

Do you know how wonderful it is to be able to throw the 35-100mm on the GX85 and get stable footage in 4K with such a small footprint? Concerts, festivals, sporting events, and anywhere else that has restrictions on what kind of cameras you can bring don't bat an eye at a tiny camera with a lense that's about the size of a can of soda! You simply cannot do that with an APS-C or full frame camera with a 70-200mm lens. 

It's a system worth keeping! Panasonic though seems to be moving on. 

It is exactly me. 🙂 Have zero problems gone into concerts with GX7 / GX85 / G9 / E-M5 / E-M10. Most of the time security thinks that they are film cameras (it is the cause that I prefer rangefinder style cameras with silver color...).

And since I moved to Fuji, the X-E4 not having IBIS was a huge dissapointment. Will have to see how the X-S10 will look to the security - it is small, hope that they thing is a point&shoot...

Lenses wise, Fuji could come close for concerts. The 55-200 is f/3.5-4.8 - considering a 1 stop gain in light gathering by the APS-C sensor, the 35-100 f/2.8 would be a f/4 constant, the Fuji would be a little darked in the tele end.

 

https://j.mp/2SPAsuN

Size wise, very close. Weight wise, not so much. But both MUCH smaller and lighter than a FF.

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9 hours ago, Yannick Willox said:

What if Panasonic are planning the GH6 ? What if the GH5 still is a viable camera, but due to older parts, difficult to assemble & sell. Hence the GH5 Mk II with a few small improvements ?

Then the bulk of this thread is moot.

What if there is a shock discovery that our GH5 and MFT gear doesn't all stop working after a certain date?  What if my 14mm f2.5 pancake lens isn't watching the Panasonic website and gradually counting down to oblivion?  What if I could keep using the 5K 4:3 anamorphic de-squeezing, downsampled 4K60, high-bitrate 10-bit ALL-I, IBIS, reliable, long-battery life, ergonomic, battle-tested camera that I already own?

Well....  that would mean, in that crazy reality, if we even dare to contemplate, the other half of this thread is moot.

Now excuse me while I go complain on the cutlery forums that I'm about to starve to death because my spoons haven't been upgraded in 1000 years and still don't automatically extend to 'focus' on my food and I still have to do it manually!

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10 hours ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

I moved to Fuji, but if the prices tank, will get back some stuff.

Will keep my GH2 and E-P1, since they value almost nothing, and were the cameras that ignited photo and video with me. My Oly 45mm have some external marks (caused by a loose step up ring in the same bag compartiment...) and probably will stay too. One of the Panny zooms, the 12-32 or the 14-42, probably will stay also.

But I will buy a E-M5 MK III in a hearbeat if the used price goes down.

Cool. I'd also like that e-m5 iii, but it was just way too expensive when it came out. Really, that camera encompasses M43. I also have a GH2 that's exclusively used for live streaming... works great. Got it with a kit lens that is somehow worth more alone than the camera and the kit lens together. Go figure. A kit lens, Oly 45, and a Gh2 can accomplish a lot.

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13 hours ago, Origami101 said:

Plus Canon and Nikon had a lot of legacy lenses in that format they’d prefer you to keep using, at least till you upgrade to their latest version. 

They very much wouldn't like you to keep using them. They'd like you to get out there and replace them with new stuff, preferably on a monthly basis!

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