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Canon Cinema EOS C70 - Ah that explains it then!


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16 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

What? Speedboosters effect DOF as well. 

Tom. You got DP in your name but the only depth of field that's affected is in your game.

Focal reducers do not affect DOF. They reduce focal length and boost speed. Thus the descriptive names. They are not called depth-of-field reducers for reasons that have clearly been explained on the metabones website and of course, mathematically. If you check the DOF formula, the boosted f-stop is cancelled out by the reduction in focal length. Of course, this is also obvious in practice.

You seem so sure of yourself...have you actually used them? If so, so why don't you put a 50 1.4 on your full frame camera and compare it with a speedboosted S35. The enhanced cropped sensor will display a similar field of view and depth of field, but the image will be exposed a stop brighter (f1.0). 

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12 hours ago, Mmmbeats said:

It's the same thing.  In both cases, all you are doing is seeing a wider portion of the same imaging circle, so naturally the depth of field does not change.

Yes exactly. 

 

20 hours ago, IronFilm said:

How did Canon gimp the C70's AF?

Many have pointed out its not as good as the R5 or the 1DX MK3. The biggest issue is it doesn't focus well on darker skinned people. Racist focusing system lol. But yeah it seems to be behind for some reason. 

image.png

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7 hours ago, independent said:

Tom. You got DP in your name but the only depth of field that's affected is in your game.

Focal reducers do not affect DOF. They reduce focal length and boost speed. Thus the descriptive names. They are not called depth-of-field reducers for reasons that have clearly been explained on the metabones website and of course, mathematically. If you check the DOF formula, the boosted f-stop is cancelled out by the reduction in focal length. Of course, this is also obvious in practice.

You seem so sure of yourself...have you actually used them? If so, so why don't you put a 50 1.4 on your full frame camera and compare it with a speedboosted S35. The enhanced cropped sensor will display a similar field of view and depth of field, but the image will be exposed a stop brighter (f1.0). 

Yes I've used them on every non full frame camera I have owned. I thought you were trying to say two cameras one being a S35 speedboosted and the other full frame with the same lens and F stop would not have the same amount of bokeh. 

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1 hour ago, TomTheDP said:

Yes exactly. 

 

Many have pointed out its not as good as the R5 or the 1DX MK3. The biggest issue is it doesn't focus well on darker skinned people. Racist focusing system lol. But yeah it seems to be behind for some reason. 

image.png

Lol, Please don't bring race into this.. even if you're joking, let's stay factual: according to tests Eye-AF on C70 is disabled on HFR, period. Under 60FPS, DPAF is proven superior to Sony AF (i.e. no pulsing).

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1 hour ago, Django said:

Lol, Please don't bring race into this.. even if you're joking, let's stay factual: according to tests Eye-AF on C70 is disabled on HFR, period. Under 60FPS, DPAF is proven superior to Sony AF (i.e. no pulsing).

I am sorry if that was insenstive. I am not joking about it not focusing well on darker skinned people though. It's pretty well documented in reviews. Could just be underexposure I guess but the 1DXMK3 and R5 don't have that issue. I can pull up the reviews if you like. 

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11 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

I am sorry if that was insenstive. I am not joking about it not focusing well on darker skinned people though. It's pretty well documented in reviews. Could just be underexposure I guess but the 1DXMK3 and R5 don't have that issue. I can pull up the reviews if you like. 

Sure point me to some reviews. the Brandon Washington one I linked earlier is by a black dude, he does an AF test on another black dude and his conclusion is that C70 struggles in low-light VS FX6 that is FF. 1DX3/R5 are also FF and have DPAF2.

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Sorry to plonk this here but as the FX6 keeps getting mentioned in comparison and I couldn't actually find a FX6 thread (surely there must be one somewhere it's proving very popular camera?)

Anyway a bit too much slow mo for my tastes but some lovely footage never the less and a little Alexa comparison at the end

 

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5 hours ago, Django said:

Sure point me to some reviews. the Brandon Washington one I linked earlier is by a black dude, he does an AF test on another black dude and his conclusion is that C70 struggles in low-light VS FX6 that is FF. 1DX3/R5 are also FF and have DPAF2.


The second two videos mention the focusing on darker skinned people issue. Looks like you already saw the Brandon Washington video though. I guess with auto focus I just want something reliable. Sony seems to have gotten there as well as certain Canon cameras. Its too bad the C70 doesn't have the same AF abilities as the 1DXMK3.

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watched all three videos. the guy in the first one doesn't even mention what his problem with the af was, second video actually praises the face-only feature on the C70 vs 1DX3, third mentions the camera had trouble focusing darker skinned people in low light conditions but not in daylight. So yeah I guess you could conclude the C70's AF isn't stellar, it is still probably ahead most other cine cams. 

Sony cams have issues as well by the way: 

 

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7 hours ago, Django said:

watched all three videos. the guy in the first one doesn't even mention what his problem with the af was, second video actually praises the face-only feature on the C70 vs 1DX3, third mentions the camera had trouble focusing darker skinned people in low light conditions but not in daylight. So yeah I guess you could conclude the C70's AF isn't stellar, it is still probably ahead most other cine cams. 

Sony cams have issues as well by the way: 

 

The Second video Griffin Conway mentions the AF on dark skin issue. I've seen it in a couple other videos too but I'd have to dig around more. The issues with the A7S3 are concerning though lens corrections could be turned off to avoid the one and I don't think I'd blame focus breathing on the AF system. Pulsing is problematic though maybe not as much as losing focus altogether, still problematic. 

Its a bummer the 1DKMK3 doesn't have EYE AF, there is always some gimp. The R5 seems to have it all. 

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8 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

The Second video Griffin Conway mentions the AF on dark skin issue. I've seen it in a couple other videos too but I'd have to dig around more. The issues with the A7S3 are concerning though lens corrections could be turned off to avoid the one and I don't think I'd blame focus breathing on the AF system. Pulsing is problematic though maybe not as much as losing focus altogether, still problematic. 

Its a bummer the 1DKMK3 doesn't have EYE AF, there is always some gimp. The R5 seems to have it all. 

I guess it depends what you're shooting. My experience with Canon's DPAF system is it can lose focus on very low contrast subjects in low-light conditions. Depending on the sensor YMMV. In less extreme conditions it remains imo the best, most natural & reliable AF system. It gets even better with (1DX3, R5, R6) DPAF2. 1DX3 does drop AF features in HFR modes where R5/R6 doesn't. C200/C300MK3/C70 have the handy Face-Only feature that doesn't refocus the background when subject leaves frame.

Other neat Canon AF features are the various zone, point, face, track modes you can easily toggle via assignable button. DPAF isn't magical though and in use there are times when you'll want to disable it. Even just for a quick second or two during panning. I absolutely love that you can also assign any button to toggle on/off the AF.

The DPAF assisted manual focus 'focus guide' feature is also pretty cool for accurate focus racking.

That said latest gen Sony's (FX/A7S3) have come a long way it seems. I still see some micro-hunting in some of the footage and those weird breathing issues so I'm not quite sure its 100% reliable yet.

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  • 1 month later...

This showed up Friday.  Of course, it was supposed to show up Wed and I had a job Friday I wanted to use it on. Oh well. Probably best to get some more time than that to get familiar with it before using it as an A cam on a job. Maybe I'll use it as a b-cam on a shoot this coming week

 that's lower stakes than what I was shooting Friday.

DSCF3923.thumb.JPG.5c106a5bc2aaf0a9ff34c905065f21ea.JPG

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14 hours ago, IronFilm said:

@ntblowz, not tempted at all by the FX6 instead?

Na, as we are already locked into Canon eco system so not really, my other friend just ordered FX6 to replace his Usra mini Pro G2 though, probably could do a quick compare once his FX6 arrive.

 

1 hour ago, EphraimP said:

This showed up Friday.  Of course, it was supposed to show up Wed and I had a job Friday I wanted to use it on. Oh well. Probably best to get some more time than that to get familiar with it before using it as an A cam on a job. Maybe I'll use it as a b-cam on a shoot this coming week

 that's lower stakes than what I was shooting Friday.

Nice! We got TVC and a MV shoot at end of this month so I got lots of days to familiar myself with C70.

 

 

9 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

How are you liking the image?

Dont have chance for a shoot yet, I did quick test in the office and quit impressed with DR on clog3... more cleaner than c200 we have.

 

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