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Andrew Reid

Canon EOS R5 / R6 overheating discussion all in one place

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17 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

Agreed.  Unfortunately it's why I had to write "cared" in that sentence.  Anyways, no need to hijack the thread.  Let's get back to the Japanese screwing up their imaging technology.

Really just Canon ... Panasonic Fuji Sigma have not ....

BTW ... I am full on Canon ... 1DX III ... and if I need more it will be the CIne line.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

Business idea! R5 and R6 re-housing for Cinema/Video makers ;-). I am sure that some smart and gifted people can "unleash" the R5 and R6 video power with a new housing.

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Take all the components out, put it in a PC case with 12 LED fans 😂

Wheel it around on a trolly, some dry ice on bottom shelf just in case!

You could get some really smooth tracking shots with the wheels.

 

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8 minutes ago, TSV said:

Business idea! R5 and R6 re-housing for Cinema/Video makers ;-). I am sure that some smart and gifted people can "unleash" the R5 and R6 video power with a new housing.

I thought about that exact same thing. Take it out of its case and put it into another housing. Who knows? Maybe the fan mod from Tilta will work. I've worked with those semiconductor cooling plates. Really slick. Typically you need a large heat sink to make them work to their fullest potential.

 

 

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BTW, I am curious as to how well the Tilta cooling system will work. In typical applications, the peltier module needs to be heat-sinked to the actual component using a conductive paste. Having it up against the case of the camera will help, but will it completely prevent it from overheating?

 

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1 minute ago, ajay said:

BTW, I am curious as to how well the Tilta cooling system will work. In typical applications, the peltier module needs to be heat-sinked to the actual component using a conductive paste. Having it up against the case of the camera will help, but will it completely prevent it from overheating?

Presumably Tilta have tested it before mass production. The problems I see with it are many. The layer of poorly conducting material between the CPU and copper heat spreader on the back of the Tilta fan. The power draw. The noise. It is 6200rpm! Obviously the onboard mic will be unusable with it attached even for syncing audio with a dual system mic. The fan spinning on set during recording is not what you want. Even with an external shotgun or boom mic. Then there is the ergonomic side. Those with beards who need to look through the EVF will get their hair caught in the blades. I think it's a publicity stunt to be honest. Even if it works to cool the camera, the noise and ergonomics of it are a joke professionally.

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20 minutes ago, TSV said:

Business idea! R5 and R6 re-housing for Cinema/Video makers ;-). I am sure that some smart and gifted people can "unleash" the R5 and R6 video power with a new housing.

 

Or house it to Komodo casing and rename it to Komodo LF 

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Haha.

It wouldn't be cost effective. May as well get an 8K RED and be done with it.

The hardware is a closed box, propriety and closed firmware too. Just rearranging the controls and rewiring them to fit a new chassis would be a complete nightmare.

The closest any third party are going to get to making it usable is to have lots of active cooling going on and holes cut in the back of the case behind the screen, with a copper heatsink mounted directly on the LSI with thermal paste and a big fan... Ruins it ergonomically of course and the fan noise would be unacceptable. Weather sealing would be compromised and depending on the temperature sensor position the firmware might decide it is overheating when it isn't and shut off anyway.

It would certainly be interesting to have a tear-down though and see what crimes against engineering Canon has achieved this time.

DIGIC X is probably not even 7nm silicon.

It is a product recall. Or consumer class action lawsuit awaits them. Sad but true.

There are people at Canon who think like some of their customers. "If you want to shoot video get a video camera blah blah blah!" like the last 10 years never happened. There will be sales reps and store people who will say things like "it only costs $4000 and shoots 8K, do you really expect it to have no compromises" by which they mean "do you really expect it to WORK AS ADVERTISED silly customer!? Shut up and give us your $4k"

This is just my opinion, I don't know what really goes on inside the heads of management at Canon but I think the whole thing is very conspiratorial.

In my opinion the design is purposeful, 100%. There is no mistake. They wanted to compromise the video for pro work, so that those customers would continue to use Cinema EOS products which have an even higher margin.

And I think they wanted to compromise it in such a way as to avoid the specs sheet looking rubbish. With just pixel binned 4K 30p, the perception would have been that Canon's technology was still behind the times compared to Sony, Fuji and Panasonic. So they have gone all out to change that perception and found another way to make sure professional videographers don't use it.

To Canon it is a stills camera that does pixel binned 4K.

To everyone else, I could have sworn it did 8K RAW and 4K/120p, and 4K oversampled from 8K too. Sure they mentioned something like that in the press release. Ah well.

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In a Canon patent an EF lens adapter cooler with active fan and radiator was suggested.

It was probably not released alongside the camera, in my opinion because it would reduce sales of native RF lenses.

The shape of the camera in the patent clearly resembles the EOS R5.

It remains to be seen if we'll see this adapter on sale, ever.

Venting heat through the lens mount from the sensor probably doesn't do much for the LSI anyway, as that's on the other side.

Unless the heat problem is actually with the sensor?

Screenshot-2020-07-27-at-02.23.48.jpg

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are these people straight up lying? I am a proud owner of the S1H so I have nothing at stake here, but this is all very interesting to me. This dude is pushing this camera super hard. What is going on here lol

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7 minutes ago, jonathangrijalva810 said:

 

are these people straight up lying? I am a proud owner of the S1H so I have nothing at stake here, but this is all very interesting to me. This dude is pushing this camera super hard. What is going on here lol

It is quite dishonest, but he'll address the overheating issues in a future video to maximize hits / ad revenue. It's why he included BTS footage of them using a LEAF BLOWER to try and cool the camera down. 

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Not to mention he made an earlier video mocking all the people that were concerned about the overheating problem and down playing it say it’s being overblown...

Then he goes on to make a Cinematic camera test that is half the length of his normal videos and shows BTS of using a leaf blower...yeah...lost respect for this dude. 

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The thought of bringing a leaf blower to a shoot is ridiculous. I don't think clients would react well to powering the camera off to cool it down with a leaf blower between takes. Obviously for personal or passion projects there may be a lot someone may be willing to put with but when you have a paying client they could quickly become nervous or upset.

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It would appear the crux of the problem with the R5 and R6 has to do with sensors that float and are not heat-sinked. They have to float for in-body IS.

(Notice how professional cinema-style cameras do not have IS built into the camera? The FX9 has a gyroscope for post-stabilization. No floating sensor. Makes sense if you want a professional cinema camera that won't overheat.

In a nutshell it appears these camera manufacturers trying to produce high quality FF video/stills camera hybrid have to decide on a path to take:

  • Forfeit in-body IS to prevent overheating
  • Have a built-in active cooling system such as a fan and possibly retain in-body IS
  • Provide in-body IS with no active cooling and allow the camera to overheat and consider it a mainly stills camera with some limited video capabilities.

The crux of the problem is floating sensors with no way of adequately keeping them cool.

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Just now, ajay said:

It would appear the crux of the problem with the R5 and R6 has to do with sensors that float and are not heat-sinked. They have to float for in-body IS.

(Notice how professional cinema-style cameras do not have IS built into the camera? The FX9 has a gyroscope for post-stabilization. No floating sensor. Makes sense if you want a professional cinema camera that won't overheat.

In a nutshell it appears these camera manufacturers trying to produce high quality FF video/stills camera hybrid have to decide on a path to take:

  • Forfeit in-body IS to prevent overheating
  • Have a built-in active cooling system such as a fan and possibly retain in-body IS
  • Provide in-body IS with no active cooling and allow the camera to overheat and consider it a mainly stills camera with some limited video capabilities.

The S1H? 

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1 minute ago, newfoundmass said:

The S1H? 

Has an active cooling system for the in-body IS sensor.

 

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This very well explains why the GH5S never had in-body IS. The data rate off the sensor is too high to prevent overheating with an in-body IS sensor. It doesn't overheat because the sensor is heat-sinked. All these manufacturers are doing juggling acts to keep their camera sensors from overheating due to high data rates.

Black Magic and Z Cam use the same sensor and also no in-body IS.

 

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