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Andrew Reid

Canon EOS R5 has serious overheating issues – in both 4K and 8K

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1 hour ago, gt3rs said:

You need to disable intel quicksync in the preferences of Resolve at least on Windows. H265 4:2:2 10bit are not HW accelared at the moment by Intel and NVIDIA only 4:2:0 of 4:4:4

On a Mac the only option I could see was for HW accelerated H264 and H265. Tried it off and no difference. This may be an issue for any new cameras footage then in Resolve! I'm guessing they'll need to fix it as presently both Premiere and Final Cut on the same system can import and work with it, even if I have to use proxies. I've sent them feedback anyway.

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52 minutes ago, Paul Cryer said:

On a Mac the only option I could see was for HW accelerated H264 and H265. Tried it off and no difference. This may be an issue for any new cameras footage then in Resolve! I'm guessing they'll need to fix it as presently both Premiere and Final Cut on the same system can import and work with it, even if I have to use proxies. I've sent them feedback anyway.

Did you turn off HW acc for h265 and restart Resolve?

On Windows with QuickSync off I can edit 4k 30,60,120 10bit all-i and ipb perf is not realtime other than 4k 30 ipb (yes ipb is faster than all-i that seems a Resolve issue)

5.5k RAW 30 and 60 on 4k 30 dci timeline is realtime with some basic nodes.... 

Gaming notebook i9 10980HK nvidia 2070 S MaxQ

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18 hours ago, PaulUsher said:

Yeah, I do. Is that ok? 😉

And not every camera ‘looks good on an overcast day...’ - you know there’s more to a picture than DR. There’s one thing being sassy, which I dig, but there’s no need to be silly.

Me enjoying this image doesn’t make your GH5S any worse. Does it make you feel better to know I’m not buying the R5? Doesn’t mean I can’t appreciate this footage.

You can buy whatever you please. It's your money.

And in evaluating a subjective medium, there is bound to be differences of opinions. Stunning isn't a word that would come to my mind, but as you state that DR isn't the only thing to a picture, you fail to list things about this image that make you feel the way you do.

That's not sassy or silly. That's a discussion.

The cameras that I own don't contribute to my statement, and demonstrates how this has devolved into something I wish to no longer take part in.

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It is a good image. I think you would have to be a bit deluded not to think that. That was never gonna be the problem with this camera. With clog 3 it will punch above its weight-class in terms of image and resolution like the s1h. However, file sizes and codec is an issue for all these japanese cameras once we start getting into better quality codecs and higher frame rates. These companies are just too conservative to give us anything of worth or to innovate like braw. So they'll just give you bumps to the specs year on year, which is the name of the game. 

In terms of a pure hybrid camera, nothing beats the r5 at the moment, but the question is whether it is worth it price given it is in effect a 4k 30p camera, which can use other modes on a limited basis. 

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5 hours ago, Lux Shots said:

You can buy whatever you please. It's your money.

And in evaluating a subjective medium, there is bound to be differences of opinions. Stunning isn't a word that would come to my mind, but as you state that DR isn't the only thing to a picture, you fail to list things about this image that make you feel the way you do.

That's not sassy or silly. That's a discussion.

The cameras that I own don't contribute to my statement, and demonstrates how this has devolved into something I wish to no longer take part in.

Some people are impressed by the posted video some not and is absolutely fine and right so.

For me the "stunning" or better very good is the fact that is a 120fps not 60, there are not many cameras on the market that can give you detailed image at 120fps.... let alone with FF look and AF.... only a limited number of cameras can give you 4k 120fps and FF only this one. I was expecting more mushy stuff at 120fps.... Would this video be shoot at 30 or 60 fps maybe it would not be so special (still good imo) but it is at 120fps FF 4k using AF so it demonstrate a unique capability of this camera very well.

For some this feature is a useless one for others is a key aspect even with the overheating limitation. 

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Yeah it looks stunning because 4K120 is simply stunning! Especially at 10-bit 4:2:2.

The only cameras that could achieve that previously were ciné cams. 
 

The FS5 II for example, could shoot 4K120 RAW but only in couple seconds burst mode and externally with expensive flagship recorder only..

 

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7 hours ago, Lux Shots said:

Stunning isn't a word that would come to my mind, but as you state that DR isn't the only thing to a picture, you fail to list things about this image that make you feel the way you do.

Stunning was the word that came to MY mind, which YOU took issue with. I’m glad you now concede that we’re all entitled to our opinions. I’m sorry I had to defend my opinion (I’d rather engage in healthy debate) but you must recognise that you provoked me with your tone, so you have to expect a reaction.

I did also post my grade of the image and named the things I liked about it. Although it’s not the user-friendly camera I’d come to expect from Canon (its modes limited by reliability, questionable IBIS, file size and codec quandaries) I appreciate its end product.

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51 minutes ago, Django said:

Yeah it looks stunning because 4K120 is simply stunning! Especially at 10-bit 4:2:2.

The only cameras that could achieve that previously were ciné cams. 

 

Zcam does it and for $1500. 

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18 hours ago, gt3rs said:

Did you turn off HW acc for h265 and restart Resolve?

On Windows with QuickSync off I can edit 4k 30,60,120 10bit all-i and ipb perf is not realtime other than 4k 30 ipb (yes ipb is faster than all-i that seems a Resolve issue)

5.5k RAW 30 and 60 on 4k 30 dci timeline is realtime with some basic nodes.... 

Gaming notebook i9 10980HK nvidia 2070 S MaxQ

Left it till today to try again. Switching it on and off to troubleshoot haha! No joy though. Must be a Mac / Resolve issue. I've ended up converting it to ProRes.

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44 minutes ago, tweak said:

Zcam does it and for $1500. 

No AF, no FF, more noise and no IBIS

So you need to speedboost and use a gimbal (the video apparently was done half with a gimbal and half handheld) 

Not sure E2 4k 120/160 is 10 bit?

On the plus of E2 no overheating and can go even 160fps..... 

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52 minutes ago, tweak said:

Zcam does it and for $1500. 

Like I said, at the moment only cine cams can do it, no other hybrid and certainly no other FF hybrid (until perhaps the unicorn A7S3).

Zcam is pretty much a sensor in a box. For $1500 you’re only getting the M43 sensor version. You gotta step up to $2500 for the S35 version and that is still not FF. No AF, no IBIS, no EVF etc..

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Super impressed with the footage made available, 120fps looks amazing IMO + IBIS + DPAF, love it. Not cancelling my pre-order yet...

Chris

[Pic replaced below]

 

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The overheating is what it is, and very disappointing.

I suppose we'll have to move on from it at some point and look at what it does offer when it is actually operating!

I am excited for the 4K/120p, although it is pixel binned and Sony A7S III will be full pixel readout. So that might be the better option for 120fps.

I am excited for the 8K RAW for very short bursts or very short shoots. First 8K camera and could be interesting if they fix the compression. 3:1 is not enough in 8K RAW, we need to go further! Phone RED again and buy some more patents! Swap your mount! Even better steal their codec!

As for the 8K oversampled 4K I think it's the most interesting mode in the camera. The pixel binned 4K/24p and 60p are there too when you need the longer recording times or the weather is hot.

It's not a dead loss of a camera.

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46 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

No AF, no FF, more noise and no IBIS

So you need to speedboost and use a gimbal (the video apparently was done half with a gimbal and half handheld) 

Not sure E2 4k 120/160 is 10 bit?

On the plus of E2 no overheating and can go even 160fps..... 

I don't really use AF, Noise is a non-issue for me and I don't need IBIS (I can understand how some people think these are important though).

E2 is 10bit.

Yes, E2 can operate for hours, even in my waterhousing shooting 120fps 4K and it never overheats. The housing is quite hot afterwards, I wonder how the canon would fair? (For the record my GH5 which basically never overheated very often would occasionally overheat in my water housing).

I get how people want a DSLR that does this stuff (I want one that can do this stuff as well!), but I think it's kinda silly to look past the Zcam if you really want those features just because it's a cube and doesn't have an EVF. I use the tool that best suits the job, right now if I want 4K 120fps on my budget that's the Zcam, in the future that could all change.

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4 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

It's not a dead loss of a camera.

I think the important thing is that the heat issue is out there now but also that its present performance should be considered the worst case scenario.

Canon may be able to improve it before launch or may be able to improve it during its life cycle.

Third parties may come up with mitigating options.

User's may find workarounds.

But if none of that happens and this is as good as it gets on the heat issue then it will still be a hell of a camera for an awful lot of people and the decision to buy one or not is now far more informed than it was a week ago.

For everyone else, it is just better to sit and observe what the next few months brings when real buyers are using real models with real finalised firmware on them and uses them in different climates.

Its arguable that no one really needs 8K today so even if you have to wait those few months to see how it pans out then you've not lost anything really.

And will likely save yourself a few quid into the bargain.

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14 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Its arguable that no one really needs 8K today so even if you have to wait those few months to see how it pans out then you've not lost anything really.

Unless you've got a client who wants 8K or if you have a 8K TV, the 8K feature of the R5 will be a curiosity at first, then quickly avoided once people bore of the enormous file sizes for little gain.  Right now it can be hard to watch 4K videos on YouTube without playback issues, and for better 4K, downsamping from 6K is enough.  Its nice we have 8K out there, even if to push technology further, but I don't want video innovation limited to just resolution.  There is a need for better editing codecs, ND internal filters and other professional features.  

The R5 is also let down by a dual card slot that can't be used as a backup, a mini HDMI connector and probably rolling shutter, though not seen too much on this yet.

Eventually other cameras will give us 120fps 4K and even 8K.  The R5 unique selling point won't be unique for long.  I'm in no rush at the moment.  My work won't pick up till next year.  By that time, Nikon, Sony and Blackmagic will have their own new cameras out there to choose from.

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2 hours ago, SteveV4D said:

Unless you've got a client who wants 8K or if you have a 8K TV, the 8K feature of the R5 will be a curiosity at first, then quickly avoided once people bore of the enormous file sizes for little gain. 

Maybe in the short term but in the long run 8K will become the norm, so I think it will be quite the opposite in years to come with regards to R5’s 8K capabilities.

When Canon introduced 4K with the the 1DC in 2012 people also called it overkill and look at us now.

I personally look forward to test out this new tech resolution and take satisfaction in knowing my investment will be future proof for the upcoming decade.

The 4K HQ mode that supersamples from 8K is what I’m most curious about and will surely be the sweet spot for stellar 4K IQ on this camera.

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