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Canon EOS R6


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16 hours ago, androidlad said:

R5 will have Canon's fastest on-chip ADC from 1DX III with readout speed at 174Kp/s @ 12bit, compared to Sony's current gen of 180Kp/s.

With this data, the 45MP sensor can scan DCI 8K at 40fps so rolling shutter will be around 25ms.

 

Not good. So similar to the A7III. But slightly better than the EOS R and 1DX III’s awful 30ms.

I think 20ms is the upper limit at which one wouldn’t notice it too much. The pocket 6K was generally fine.

16ms seems like the standard number at which rolling shutter is fairly controlled. But most of those cameras at that number are not full frame and obviously not 8K. 

I hope the R6 does better. 

 

 

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10-bit 422 internally is a must from now on for any higher end mirrorless body. I’d much rather have that than 5.5k raw.     

Nice to know what is coming out, but it does put a lot of potential upgrades on freeze knowing the R5, R6, and Komodo are on the horizon. Those three cameras alone (not to mention a Cinema EOS camera

Only until the S1 mk2 / Z6 mk2 gets released a few months later....

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On 4/25/2020 at 5:10 PM, independent said:

Not good. So similar to the A7III. But slightly better than the EOS R and 1DX III’s awful 30ms.

I think 20ms is the upper limit at which one wouldn’t notice it too much. The pocket 6K was generally fine.

16ms seems like the standard number at which rolling shutter is fairly controlled. But most of those cameras at that number are not full frame and obviously not 8K. 

I hope the R6 does better. 

 

 

Not good?! It's phenomenal silicon. I have no idea how Canon is even contemplating that much data... 45 megapixel at 40fps is astounding. And all that has to be compressed to complex H.265 at up to 30fps as well. So not only is the sensor readout bandwidth extreme, the image processor behind it is a massive step up for Canon.

Where is Sony's 8K in an A7?

A7 III chips are older than yesterday's reheated oven chips.

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Agreed, but I meant specifically the rolling shutter. If the R5 readout is 25ms, it isn't terrible, but it's no C500ii at 15ms (cinema5d). 

Perhaps the 6K or 4K modes will have less skew. 

I'm a bit confused about the math. How can the R5 @45MP can have better rolling shutter numbers than the 1DX III @21MP, given they share the same ADC? @androidlad ?

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43 minutes ago, independent said:

Agreed, but I meant specifically the rolling shutter. If the R5 readout is 25ms, it isn't terrible, but it's no C500ii at 15ms (cinema5d). 

Perhaps the 6K or 4K modes will have less skew. 

I'm a bit confused about the math. How can the R5 @45MP can have better rolling shutter numbers than the 1DX III @21MP, given they share the same ADC? @androidlad ?

1Dx iii FF 5.5 at 50 and 60 has a rolling shutter < 16.6ms not sure why at 24,25,30 is higher maybe due to dpaf or whatever reason. 

The rolling shutter in any crop mode 24,25,30,50,60 and FF  50,60 fps is the same or very similar and quite good (ca 16ms). FF 24,25 and 30 is very noticeable. Did not measure it but just went through all of them doing quick swipe pans.

 

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1D X Mark III sensor readout is at a lower resolution, and higher frame rate. Each sweep of the sensor will be quicker, as there's half the lines of resolution to read out compared to the R5.

You don't need to look at any maths. Just look at the logic.

If the R5 is going to be 25ms (it hasn't actually been tested yet), this is still a very good result for the resolution (8K / 4320p), compared to 4K with just 2190 lines.

So the R5 sensor is extremely fast.

Comparisons to the C500 II are moot as that is $15,000 and designed to do only 4K... It's a much lower res chip.

If we are comparing rolling shutter it should be in 4K/120p mode to other 4K cameras of the same class, type and price.

I think the rolling shutter in 4K on the R5 is likely to be sub 10ms.

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2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

1D X Mark III sensor readout is at a lower resolution, and higher frame rate. Each sweep of the sensor will be quicker, as there's half the lines of resolution to read out compared to the R5.

You don't need to look at any maths. Just look at the logic.

If the R5 is going to be 25ms (it hasn't actually been tested yet), this is still a very good result for the resolution (8K / 4320p), compared to 4K with just 2190 lines.

So the R5 sensor is extremely fast.

Comparisons to the C500 II are moot as that is $15,000 and designed to do only 4K... It's a much lower res chip.

If we are comparing rolling shutter it should be in 4K/120p mode to other 4K cameras of the same class, type and price.

I think the rolling shutter in 4K on the R5 is likely to be sub 10ms.

Do you think it'll be using a quad Bayer sensor so no skipping/binning?

 

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I'm curious about any of these projected calculations of rolling shutter, because I've understood it as a spec that's released by the company or measured by various individuals and websites. Is there some formula for rolling shutter I'm missing? 

Speaking of logic, if the R5 and 1DX III share the same ADC (via androidlad above), shouldn't the R5's rolling shutter should be worse than the 1DX III's? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the quoted readout numbers are 30ms for 5.5K (1DXiii) versus 25ms for 8K (R5). All things being equal, isn't that illogical?

I can accept the notion that there are more variables to account for (e.g., the R5 has a different, more advanced sensor and processor than any existing camera, including the 1DX iii), and that people are just projecting and extrapolating. I just want to know how people are coming up with numbers.

 

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Meh.... feels kind of underwhelming...

https://www.canonrumors.com/the-canon-eos-r6-has-shown-up-for-certification/

Is this really what you want? Feels like a repackaged 1DX mark 2.

Whatever, there is probably a market for "good enough" afterall.

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1DX II was actually pretty dope for video except for useability, saw lots of nice footage people posted using that cam.

But it had 3? minute recording limit and the file sizes were huge, and the crop in 60fps.  If they don't cripple it and fix those issues (time limit, codecs, crop) it would be a great cam.

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2 hours ago, mkabi said:

Meh.... feels kind of underwhelming...

https://www.canonrumors.com/the-canon-eos-r6-has-shown-up-for-certification/

Is this really what you want? Feels like a repackaged 1DX mark 2.

Whatever, there is probably a market for "good enough" afterall.

Not everyone can spend $4k on new camera each time

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5 hours ago, mkabi said:

Meh.... feels kind of underwhelming...

https://www.canonrumors.com/the-canon-eos-r6-has-shown-up-for-certification/

Is this really what you want? Feels like a repackaged 1DX mark 2.

Whatever, there is probably a market for "good enough" afterall.

I wouldn't mind that.
It would allow me to retire my Canon 5DIII and have a B roll video body in the same package. I'm all about reducing my kit and a body like this would help me do that. Right now I need GH5+5Diii in my bag.

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5 hours ago, scotchtape said:

1DX II was actually pretty dope for video except for useability, saw lots of nice footage people posted using that cam.

But it had 3? minute recording limit and the file sizes were huge, and the crop in 60fps.  If they don't cripple it and fix those issues (time limit, codecs, crop) it would be a great cam.

The huge files myth:

4k dci mjpg 8 bit 30 fps 500 Mbits

4k dci h265 All-i 10 bit 30 fps 470 Mbits

other than the obvious 8 vs 10 bit is that h265 10bit needs around 2.5x the compute power to processed them.... if mjpg would be 10 bit I would take this any day vs 265.....

Also the crop in the 1Dx II is there at all frame rates in 4k not only at 60fps.

But yes it produces a very nice video

 

 

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5 hours ago, mkabi said:

Meh.... feels kind of underwhelming...

https://www.canonrumors.com/the-canon-eos-r6-has-shown-up-for-certification/

Is this really what you want? Feels like a repackaged 1DX mark 2.

Whatever, there is probably a market for "good enough" afterall.

Hard to judge from the rumors....

4k 60 is it FF or not is 10 bit and or RAW with or without DPAF?

If it is FF 4k 60 supersampled 10bit with DPAF then imo is not underwhelming at all.

 

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22 minutes ago, David Bowgett said:

Even if it does turn out to have cropped video, on a 20MP sensor it would work out to the equivalent of an APS-C crop. Certainly not ideal by a long shot, but it'd be leagues better than the crops on the R and RP.

It will be the same as 1Dx II so ca 1.34

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