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Andrew Reid

Fuji X-T4

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On 5/23/2020 at 5:03 AM, MrSMW said:

The 16-80mm f4 is even better.

...

It's currently my workhorse do it all lens...

Do any of your clients want more “blur” ie, bokeh, in their shots?

Personally I find anything bigger than FF f/2.8 distracting for video. Photos are a different story of course.

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On 5/23/2020 at 12:48 PM, MrSMW said:

I can’t find a better combo.

I would rather the 16-80 was f2.8 but it isn’t.

I would rather the 16-55 had OIS, but it doesn’t.

I wish the Sigma 18-35 had OIS, but that doesn’t either.

I wish the Tamron 45 was a bit smaller and lighter...

Compromise everywhere as there is with all kit, but for my wedding video needs, paired with XT3 (not 4) these I feel are my best options.

I am going to (when work starts back up in 2025) replace my current cheap Gobe variable ND with the Polar Pro, but otherwise the only interesting bit of kit on the radar is Fuji’s own 50mm f1.0. I hope it’s not too big or heavy compared with the Tamron 45, but even if it is, still might consider it if it’s the dogs wotsits for video.

Generally though, I think other than the MK’s (too unwieldy and no AF so not for me) Fuji’s lens options for video is not the best but other stuff with the Fringer works really well.

I own AF+MF lenses in EF mount in the 11-16, 28-75 and 85mm focal lengths in much wider apertures than Fuji lenses and even if I liked the lens OIS in Fuji lenses (I don't - it's sticky, grabby, robotic. Just not good in video), I don't like the Fuji focus rings for those times I do want to focus manually. Oh and the price. I'd rather keep my full frame glass that continues to be adaptable across camera systems. I'm happy with my EF lenses and between the Fringer adapter and Viltrox speedbooster I have good options for using them on my XT4 with much wider constant apertures than Fuji lenses for anything close to the same money. Even my £20 dumb EOS-FX adapter is decent once I use my ND filters.
But anyway. Digressed.

I'm currently trying to look into how easy it might be to hack the Fringer or Viltrox firmware files to do a simple multiplier on the focal length value being reported to the camera. If I can trick the camera into thinking it's got a focal length about 60%-70% of the real value (which of course was also already x0.71 on the Viltrox fx2), I can get IBIS I can really live with AND get all my nice electronic communication too. (as opposed to currently inputting the fake focal length on a dumb adaptor and not getting electronic aperture control/AF/EXIF etc).

If anyone has any ideas let me know! Currently trying to get binwalk to run through python in Windows so I can do something with the Fringer .bin. The Viltrox firmware file isn't a .bin extension but my understanding is it's a similar deal. Seems to be all in Chinese then too though when simply examined in notepad 😢

Edit: another possibility (fingers crossed!) might be some kind of the usual hacky workarounds along the lines of turning on the camera with nothing attached at first, maybe in some cases with some electronic adapters/some electronic lenses you just might still get to choose your own value in the mount adapter setting or something then. Just don't know yet without the adapters to hand to test stuff.

Either that or Fuji just gives us an actual legit option to input whatever 'wrong' focal length translation we wish even with electronic and native lenses. or, god forbid, fix how the IBIS actually performs in video.

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4 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

Do any of your clients want more “blur” ie, bokeh, in their shots?

Personally I find anything bigger than FF f/2.8 distracting for video. Photos are a different story of course.

Ah, a little further elaboration...

I use the 16-80 on one body with tripod, ie, static for ceremony & speeches only.

The Sigma 18-35 is on another body and freestanding monopod for more considered work indoors.

The Tamron 45 takes over outdoors and with both of the latter lenses, mostly shooting wide open ie f1.8.

No client has ever mentioned blur, bokeh or any other technical/visual aspect. If they are ever going to want to talk about something, it will be music choices and can they have their Ed Sheeran first dance inserting somewhere 🤯

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On 5/23/2020 at 1:53 PM, MrSMW said:

Oh and from what I have seen and unless I have said this before, the OIS on the 16-80 seems as good as the IBIS in the XT4

I'm 100% a hobbyist and only have the Samsung NX 16-50mm S to compare with but the Fuji 16-80mm really is good for video work. sed it on my XT3 and have now switched to XT4. Battery grip to give the XT3 a bit more weight combined with OIS on the 16-80mm makes a god hanheld setup. Only thing is the motor on the (my?) lens makes this high pitched noise. You get the same? 

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Not noticed it myself.

Otherwise, I'm not actually much of a fan of IBIS or OIS for video as I don't personally care for the handheld look. I will use it at a pinch, but only trying to be a human tripod and then using warp stabiliser.

But in some handheld tests, I thought the 16-80 was pretty damned decent.

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I know Andrew doesn’t want the forum to turn in to another way to browse YouTube content but here is a fairly throughly video that shows some problems with X-T4 IBIS. Hopefully it’s fixable in firmware.

There is a lot to like about the Fuji system. I’ll personally wait for a future XH1 style camera before I would consider investing, especially if it’s video focused. If they want it to stand apart from the XT series that would be a great way to do it. Make it a mini mirrorless documentary camera with video bells and whistles and Fuji colors. 

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On 6/1/2020 at 2:18 PM, Video Hummus said:

I know Andrew doesn’t want the forum to turn in to another way to browse YouTube content but here is a fairly throughly video that shows some problems with X-T4 IBIS. Hopefully it’s fixable in firmware.

There is a lot to like about the Fuji system. I’ll personally wait for a future XH1 style camera before I would consider investing, especially if it’s video focused. If they want it to stand apart from the XT series that would be a great way to do it. Make it a mini mirrorless documentary camera with video bells and whistles and Fuji colors. 

Yeah, I could tell pretty quickly this camera's IBIS wasn't performing as good as my GH5, which again probably gets outperformed slightly by the Olympus. It's a shame, really had me considering returning my XT4 but compared to the GH5, the slightly neater form factor and usable autofocus is just something game-changing for me in terms of casually bringing the camera with me way more places. I used to NEVER want to bring my GH5 anywhere for some reason.

I've since come to realise how great the image quality is too, beating my old GH5 easily at anything higher than 1600 ISO and seeming to have (in part due to ISO performance I guess) cleaner slowmotion 1080 etc all the way up to 200fps (240fps just pushes it a bit too far and most clips don't look good enough, but this is how it goes with cameras' absolute max VFR FPS, I know). I appreciate other little XT4 victories that were limitations on GH5, such as way beefier codecs when you consider you get HEVC h.265 10-bit even in the high frame rate 1080 modes. I used to hate knowing that mixing the 10bit with 8bit(VFR) on my GH5 maybe meant not being able to grade them quite as hard with the 8-bit mixed in. In 4K (up to 30p) the HEVC 400MBPS codec is fantastic to have, and 200MBPS h265 up to 60p is always gonna be enough for me too, given the extra % visible image info saved in h.265 for a given bitrate vs h.264 (40% or something apparently?) Oh, and HLG availabe in all the recording modes. I never got my hands on v-Log with the GH5 and was always bummed I suddenly couldn't use HLG in the high framerate slow mo modes.

I was really, really thinking of downgrading to an XH1 or XT3 but I'm pretty hsppy and trying to just let it go, hope for a firmware improvement.

If an XH2 comes along with something like 4K in higher framerate and better IBIS, I just might be trying to jump ship then.

Again I've found that the XT4 IBIS actually plays a bit nicer - when using a manual lens setup that lets you enter the focal length setting yourself - if you enter a shorter focal length than the real one. There's still plenty of stabilisation on offer to filter out real hand shakiness, but the camera thinking it's at a shorter focal length (say x0.7) seems to mean the grabby 'catch-up' jitters of the sensor are mitigated a lot. It just works better for me. I'm still afraid to try anything longer than about 35mm on this camera handheld for video though. The IBIS just gets defeated and exasperated by anything Tele.

 

With the Fuji electronic lens protocol being opened up to third parties more lately I'm hopeful about the future in terms of competitive lenses and adaptors too (definitely going to get the Viltrox speedbooster at some point, it was a godsend on my GH5. Fringer sounds great too, I'm torn, I'm not fully all-in on needing usable AF or anything so may go Viltrrox 'booster route)

Another cool thing I noticed: with the XT4 I seemed to able to record 400mpbs clips for several minutes at a time to a Sandisk card that's only really around <V30. No idea why this is. My GH5 would always see the same SanDisk card lose the recording in under a minute.

Oh, and stills! I'm not really a stills guy at all yet but obviously this is the camera for a hybrid shooter, I like what I see from it so far and look forward to snapping more and more with it. Again, nothing since my Panasonic GX8 all the way through models up to GH5 really gave me that feeling (well, except for when I owned an XH1 briefly, which seemed very good), the stills just always felt like a struggle, mediocre results.

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another interesting test from my favorite Korean youtuber

Actual comment at 03:50: "I did 3 tests. What survived the harsh test was only the NX1 that was shooting these cameras."

I would like to see Fuji give as something more video orientated. I am not sure why they haven't yet but I believe it is coming.

 

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1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

I would like to see Fuji give as something more video orientated. I am not sure why they haven't yet but I believe it is coming.

If anything they have been pushing video quite hard since XT-3.

I really do think, since they added IBIS to the XT series, that the XH series will lean in to video. They’ve already said they want it to do something different, and the XT4 has obviously slotted into what the XH1 offered.

A potential XH2 could have a bigger, chunkier body which adds to ergonomics for video. Add in IBIS, beefy codec, new ASPC sensor, mini XLR, maybe SDI, Fuji colors and Flog. Better AF. Maybe high resolution tilt screen instead of a flip screen. An external monitor is better for sit down head shots or YouTube anyway. You wouldn’t vlog with it. That’s what an XT4 is for now.

Could be a real competitor to C100 or C200 for the hipsters 😏

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9 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

If anything they have been pushing video quite hard since XT-3.

I really do think, since they added IBIS to the XT series, that the XH series will lean in to video. They’ve already said they want it to do something different, and the XT4 has obviously slotted into what the XH1 offered.

It has a bigger, chunkier body which adds to ergonomics first video. Add in IBIS, beefy codec, new ASPC sensor, mini XLR, maybe SDI, Fuji colors and log. Better AF. Could be a real competitor to C100 or C200 for the hipsters 😏

hiprster,  or us, or we are the hipsters?!

That's what I am thinking, I believe they will go a different route. XT cameras have gone a long way to be as competitive as they are right now. Now we need a new (or the X-H) line completely video orientated. It doesn't have to be exactly a hybrid camera, we are full of those!

Fuji makes small but steady steps, they seem to be dedicated to their end goal, which is survival, I guess! 

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2 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

hiprster,  or us, or we are the hipsters?!

It was tongue and cheek. In broad terms, up-and-coming filmmakers that don’t mind experimenting with using newer gear and aren’t locked into Canon C cameras or RED.

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24 minutes ago, Stathman said:

Did anyone try ibis with the new firmware? 

Is the stepping issue solved? 

I have. Improved a lot. Panning is very smooth now, but at the start, if the camera is not moving, there is a small delay were the camera first tries to keep the composition. But transition to panning is now pretty good. I'd say for video shooters this is a big one, IBIS is now extremely good. 

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51 minutes ago, frontfocus said:

I have. Improved a lot. Panning is very smooth now, but at the start, if the camera is not moving, there is a small delay were the camera first tries to keep the composition. But transition to panning is now pretty good. I'd say for video shooters this is a big one, IBIS is now extremely good. 

Nice!

Let's hope they will fix it for X-H1 also.

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1 hour ago, Stathman said:

Nice!

Let's hope they will fix it for X-H1 also.

I don't think that any X-series cameras with last gen hardware will get big firmware updates. The GFX 50 cameras are getting love, as they are much more expansive, but I think that only X-cameras with X processor 4 are getting big firmware updates 

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Indeed, very likely to happen, it's the last generation to gather their attention for sure : ) As far as my own experience with business practices and manufacturers building personal relationships directly with their camera staff and PR contacts before firmware updates were even used in this industry yet (I'd say earlier mid-90s since 1992 or so : -)

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17 hours ago, Stathman said:

Did anyone try ibis with the new firmware? 

Is the stepping issue solved? 

I've been obsessed with the IBIS problems since it came out.

I did a quick test today on the new firmware. The long and short of it:

- It no longer does that "One Giant Leap" thing when slowly panning/tilting etc
Which seemed like it was caused by the sensor movement sort of being stabilised/smooth at the beginning of your movement but then hitting a wall and having to 'catch up' position to your panning. Now, the beginning of each pan or tilt almost immediately = quick responsive movement in the frame. I even found this a little jarring at first as if it had got more robotic, but I think I can just get used to it and initiate my movements gently. I was probably already conditioned to do my movements tailored to the old firmware IBIS or something. There's way less loose floaty feeling to the movement now, they just made it all feel ever so slightly tighter.

- There's still a bunch of very Small Steps For Man. I think.
Or, just still something I don't quite like about it. I think they've sort of broken down the stabilisation efforts into smaller chunks - there's STILL a small quantized, 'stepping' appearance when you look closely - it can be more obvious than normal in Slow-motion modes which almost (partially) defeats my purposes for slowmo, and I think it's there MORE of the time now, but to a less severe degree if you get my meaning, i.e. it never does the one Giant step in IBIS catch-up. But, man, it's still a bunch of v small steps. (maybe if you kneel and keep your arm strong you can mitigate the appearance in the result ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )

I just feel like Fuji's whole approach to IBIS seems to have some fundamentally, inherently 'quantizey' stepping nature to it at the smallest level, compared to like Pana or Olympus.
For anyone who hasn't got a sense of it yet, the really poor performance happens  was happening when:
A. tilting slowly while also moving on the up/down vertical (Z?) axis~
B. panning slowly while also strafing side to side on the horizontal (X?) axis
C. probably other combinations of 2 types of movement

I do feel like the update finally makes it possible for me to try to use, for video, an actual medium length Fuji lens that electronically communicates the focal length. Up to now to get smooth video I was always throwing a manual dumb adapted EF lens (wider the better) and setting a smaller 'fake' focal length on the mount adaptor setting, and this toned down the IBIS jumps. In 4k regular FPS modes I think it seems like I might even be able to give x1.1 DIS another shot now and see if it's usable. I was shunning the DIS completely til now. 4k60p with nice OIS+DIS would be great.

My tests so far haven't been at all rigourous or scientific, I was too eager to bother setting up any direct A/B comparison shoot before throwing on the new firmware, so, y'know. I really hope in real world practice I start to feel like the IBIS is cool now and then this really will be my perfect camera.

Other good news is I've had really good results anyway stabilising the XT4 footage in Resolve, needing really minimal extra crop factor and almost no artefacts when doing so. I think the strong rolling shutter performance of the camera might help avoid the warpy jelly shit when you have to stabilise. Compared to what I remember with my GH5 anyway. Or maybe my newer version of Resolve these days just does it better. Either way I feel okay about a little stabilising in Post with the XT4.

If anyone comes across any compelling footage of testing out the new firmware, comparisons etc, let me know!

 

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Somewhat related, here's some of what I have been able to do so far with my XT4. Made this video for my ex who adopted our dog together with me and hasn't seen him in months. Just run & gun while out on a literal run with my dog in the morning.
Excuse the overuse of VFR slowmo, I just haven't been able to bring myself to endure the lack of stabilisation in regular FPS with this camera yet and I chose this day as my shoot to just stick to that one setting.
It's all 1080 10-bit h.265 200mbps upscaled to 4k just so youtube wouldn't shit on my mp4 file (too much more).

All of these clips were with a dumb EF adaptor and a Tamron 28-75 wide open using vari ND. I haven't been able to decide on what electronic comm EF adaptor to get yet to have no iris control for now.
Nearly all the clips were just IBIS only and whatever focal length I had zoomed to, I was quickly going into the setting of mount adaptor and setting a fake focal length of about x0.7 to mitigate IBIS jumps on the old firmware.
F-log, just freestyled the grading (No LUT) to something I thought was kinda nice.

LOTS of clips were stabilised to a small degree in Resolve (translation mode).
 

 

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