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New Nikon D5300 with Expeed 4


Aussie Ash
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Matt, in your previous post you said 12800 was "quite usable" and 6400 was "very good".  You didn't qualify your claims.  When I downloaded the 6400 footage, I was expecting very good footage.  But what I got was nasty.  I'm glad to see you essentially agree, namely, that the 6400 footage is not usable, just possibly better than other unusable 6400 footage available from similarly priced cameras.

 

Dude, this isn't going anywhere. I didn't qualify what I meant by "very good" at 6400 because so far I've been talking to people on this thread who actually understand what DSLR's are currently capable of (see Danyyyel's post above). You have also quoted me completely out of context, which is frankly just boring: I said "I think the D5300 is quite useable at 12800 ISO for certain applications". The key terms here being "I think" (i.e. my personal opinion) and "for certain applications" (e.g. ones where seeing in the dark is more important than geeking out on squeaky clean footage, but not being distracted by great big coloured banding everywhere). It's also pretty juvenile to twist my words to say I agree that the footage is not useable. I do not agree. I am looking forward to "using" a lot of footage I shoot at 6400 ISO on the D5300. I understand that this level of noise will not be to everyone's taste (subjectivity is a wonderful thing), but personally I will be happy to shoot with it for a lot of the stuff I do - whereas I would not have been comfortable shooting at 6400 on, say, my 600D, and don't like shooting that high on my G6.

 

This thread has so far been very constructive and helpful to everyone involved, please don't derail it any further. I respect your right to an opinion but you have now made it known (however dogmatic it was). If you would like to qualify your statements (as you suggested I should) with some examples of why this camera is not "very good" at 6400 ISO that are not ENTIRELY subjective, then I would be genuinely interested. As suggested before, if you would like to show some footage from a camera in this price bracket that does better at high ISOs, please do - that would be great. Or perhaps something other than just declaring that other people are wrong. Otherwise we will just be going around in circles.

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Said it before and I'll say it again, if any of those criticising EOSHD for not lavishing attention on a small incremental update from Nikon can PROVE that the D5300 is a significant step up from the D5200 in terms of the image quality in video mode, I will take a closer look at it. Until then, it's just a tweaked D5200.

For my part I'm not criticising EOSHD, I'm retaining interest in the D5300 because so far it looks like it is worth the premium on the D5200 for my uses. 

 

Have you looked at Gordon Laing's ISO tests Andrew? You can see them all here: vimeo.com/groups/d5300

Your opinion would be appreciated ...

 

Cheers.

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I don't think anyone is criticizing you dude. Some of us are very interested in the D5300 but having trouble finding a reviewer who shares our cinematic aesthetic to put it through the paces.

I became interested in the D5200 first as a result of the impressive work Brandon Li did with it, then secondly after all the shoot out clips YOU did with it. I just wanted a lack of FPN & 60p. Unfortunately, you're not interested in the D5300 enough to verify & so I'm looking for someone who is. That's not a critique on you or EOSHD. If I didn't believe this site was a good resource with a great community of like minds, I wouldn't waste my time visiting or posting here.

The GH3 just dropped in price by $300, the RX10 looks to be a great all rounder, but without an organic cinematic look. The D5300 likely produces a very clean, detailed image at high ISO and may have eliminated all FPN, but nobody seems to know for sure. Trust me, I'm very much tired of looking into it. As soon as I can pick up one from Best Buy where I get 45 days to return, I'll just pick one up myself & be done with trying to find a serious reviewer who cares enough to give it a thorough look.

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So just because I think the D5300 isn't much different to the last model, I don't share your cinematic aesthetic...

 

Bizarro.

 

So you want a clean, detailed image (although to be honest not that detailed) and good at high ISO… D5200 is a great buy. If you also need 60p, get the D5300. I honestly cannot see anything more in this guys...

 

If you want me to validate your purchase by wasting my time on reviewing a cynical yearly update from Nikon barely any different to the last model, you'll be waiting a long time!

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I still haven't seen a single good test or side by side with the D5200, so until then I remain convinced it's virtually the same!

 

For what it's worth, this is my opinion on what's going on with this thread - which has two sides to it:

 

1) The people who have been most active here haven't owned a D5200, so our enthusiasm for the D5300 also includes enthusiasm for all the benefits of the D5200. This almost certainly explains our excitement versus Andrew's more tempered response. My main interest is in whether it's worth paying the extra for the D5300. Money is an issue for me so I would very happily go out and buy the D5200 tomorrow (in fact I could get it for nothing by PX'ing some old Canon gear). But from the very slim pickings online, I have tentatively concluded that the 5300 is worth the premium. As I believe Andrew said in his initial report (at the start of this thread after looking at it in the shop) it is probably worth it if you don't already own a D5200 and would like the extras (60p, larger screen, etc).

 

However ...

 

2) My main reason for favouring the 5300 over the 5200 is that it looks like the fixed pattern noise has gone. I think this probably does make it a significantly better camera than the D5200. More grading may be possible, and no annoying banding. This tips the boat for me, and is perhaps why I may have appeared to be suggesting that it is worthy of more attention than it is getting. But the lack of FPN definitely isn't a groundbreaking thing on par with more exciting current developments, like RAW, ProRes, 4k, full sensor readout, etc. I can't honestly see an EOSHD article entitled: "D5300 DISPENSES WITH FPN OF PREDECESSOR!". So I totally respect Andrew's decision not to look any further into the camera. 

But for all the amazing advancements in affordable video at the moment, there is very little of this new stuff that actually offers a solid, useable all-round workhorse. The GH3 is obviously the benchmark for that in the price bracket, but it has low-light limitations. I have a speedbooster on my G6 and it's wonderful, but I find the colour fringing a real problem at night, and wide aperture doesn't always replace high ISOs. Nikons no doubt have some annoying characteristics (no aperture control for G lenses, restrictive mount) but the D5300 offers small but very worthwhile improvements on a solid camera, and as far as I can tell that makes it one of the best options out there if you don't want to spend hours messing around with beta-level technology. I'm over the moon with my G6 and if I had to have only one camera I would probably choose it over the D5300 - but I need a second camera and I want something that offers something a little different. When Blackmagic make a Pocket as useable as the GH3, or Panasonic give us ProRes, I'll be first in line, but until then ...

 

I think I'll shut up for a while now (at least until there is some convincing test footage online - or I make it myself). 

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So just because I think the D5300 isn't much different to the last model, I don't share your cinematic aesthetic...

 

Bizarro.

 

So you want a clean, detailed image (although to be honest not that detailed) and good at high ISO… D5200 is a great buy. If you also need 60p, get the D5300. I honestly cannot see anything more in this guys...

 

If you want me to validate your purchase by wasting my time on reviewing a cynical yearly update from Nikon barely any different to the last model, you'll be waiting a long time!

 

Andrew, I'm pretty sure that Skip was saying there aren't many reviewers LIKE YOU out there to look at the 5300 - i.e. -that he likes your aesthetic. It was meant as a compliment! That's why we're here and pestering you rather than anywhere else. Jeez, why are you so bloody confrontational!

 

BTW, yes I would like you to validate my purchase please - an "EOSHD Approved" badge might be an idea. Instead of using stars for the rating, you could have little golden anamorphic lenses, or hacked GH2's …

 

Seriously though - I accept everything you're saying about the 5300 being a minor upgrade on the D5200, I really do. But you haven't really talked about the fixed pattern noise. That's the "something more", if there is anything. It's not big, but it is something more. You did address it in your review of the 5200. Whether it means much to you is of course your choice, and I respect that. You've obviously got more than enough on your plate. However, if you want us to stop talking about it amongst ourselves on your forum, that's different - you should probably say so.

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Andrew, you seem a bit sensitive. You've misinterpreted my post. I DO think you share my aesthetic. You just don't share my particular interest & needs. Nothing wrong with that at all!

You are excited by new, innovative, cutting edge gear for independent filmmaking & don't mind dealing with a cumbersome raw/prores workflow. You also appear to have more gear, computing, and financial resources than I do.

I'm looking for something low budget that will give me a great low light image without all the extra gear, hassle & expense. My posts are not directed at you, nor do I harbor any wish for you to evaluate the Nikon gear. You've made it clear that you have no interest in the D5300. That's your prerogative.

I posted today asking a specific user who said he ordered the D5300 & expected it on the 27th. And he said he was going to test with the ninja. Instead, someone else derailed the conversation with a bunch of claims about "nasty noise" or something like that.

Is it not acceptable to get honest feedback from other users on your site who share interest in particular cameras even if you don't have any interest in said cameras?

 

FWIW: I've given up on waiting for 3rd party data/reviews on the D5300 and went to buy one today. Unfortunately the shop I want to buy from is still trying to blow out stock of D5200s so I'll have to wait a bit more. The fellow over at Cinema5D appears to be interested in the D5300. Hopefully, he'll get a chance to run it through the paces before I buy. But, if he doesn't, I'll buy one as soon as it's available and report back here what I think of it to those interested. 

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Just buy one from Amazon, return if it you don't like it. I am sure you will love it, judging by this thread so far.


I don't really need it until after the new year, so getting the points and extra easy return time is worth waiting a little more.

And, I had a D5200 for a month so I'm sure I won't "love" the D5300. I found it awkward to shoot with & didn't like getting out of live view to change aperture, or the lack of headphone jack, or the useless AF. But, I did think the image looked amazing, and incredible in low light.

Was hoping the image from the RX10 was better in low light, and didn't look so sterile. I'd seen other clips from it that looked sharp, but not organic or cinematic. Then I watched your footage from it, from a cinematic aesthetic, and although it looks technically good, it still looks like TV news clips. I'm sure amazing work can and will be made with it, but it's image simply doesn't excite me at all.

The most impressive low/mid-end cinematic images I've seen have been from the BMPCC & 5D3. It's just I don't want the extra workflow & storage requirements, etc. I've also paired down my current computing power to a 13in MacBook Pro & thunderbolt monitor which won't even run resolve. I don't want to buy a new computer at the moment.

For my present needs, ie. great image that my current equipment will handle, low storage requirements, good lowlight performance for shooting alone on the road via backpack & no extra light, 60p, and capable of doubling as an excellent stills camera as well (since stills is mostly what I do: http://www.kaleidoscopeofcolor.com/galleria/ + http://skiphunt.carbonmade.com + http://skiphuntphoto.com ) and light weight without the need for a rig. Seems the D5300 meets all of those needs. Though, I really wanted the RX10's all-in-one solution or the massive video flexibility of the GH3 or G6. I just don't think the low light performance or stills resolution of those other options will satisfy.

I'm really not a pixel peeper at all. I know creativity trumps all gear leverage. I've seen amazing cinematic work from an iPhone only. I just think poor low light performance and low DR limits your choice too much. And, although I'm one of those who actually likes a bit of noise in some situations, as long as it mimics film grain and doesn't mush up detail or become distracting.

Given all that, would you still be considering the GH3, G6, RX10 if you were me?
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I think the reason many here expected a review of the D5300 is because you where one of the people that showed the capability of the D5200 to the film community. Until now it is still the reference to show the fantastic low light capability of the Nikon D5200 that rivals the $ 3500 5dmark3 full frame camera which itself is hailed as a very very good low light camera. Now you have told us that you don't want to review it and I respect your opinion because it is your site and your time and you can decide your priorities. I will just tell you why I am interested in this camera, it might just be for the sake of discussion and comprehension. I am not in anyway trying to convince or confront you.

 

The first thing is that I am a pro Nikon photographer that is always interested in Cinema. Contrary to those pseudo pure photographers that can't photo their shoes I am a big fan of the hybrid concept. So for the last 5 years I have bought a Canon 7d and a panasonic gh2 for video because Nikon was behind. Then I bought the D800 for my photography and it was much better than the 7D and previous Nikon  but still kept my gh2, the moire/aliasing of the D800 (much better than the 7d) was still a little annoying for me. http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?286855-Sharpness-test-between-Nikon-D800-Panasonic-GH2-and-Canon-7D

 

Then came the D5200!!! What is that thing a $ 800 Nikon camera that had no moire/aliasing with fantastic lowlight and about 12 stop of DR and you could even record in high bitrate 422 with an external recorder. Further test showed that it had one downfall and it was the FPN. There was a solution with neat-image but it was a bit cumbersome if you pushed into the shadows for some shots. In the end I bought its sensor brother in the D7100 as a second body to my D800. It took me some time because the logical choice was the D600 but I wanted so much the better video image. There was report that the D7100 image in video was sharper than the d5200 and I did test against the gh2 as you can see it was blind test and most did not commit and some got in wrong, so close they where that I sold my gh2. I can also confirm the the hdmi output give an even more detailed and sharper image. http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?310503-Nikon-D7100-vs-Panasonic-gh2-sharpness

 

During those time I had to chose at first between the D7100 and the BMC camera (I already had my D300 as backup for my D800) and then when between the Ninja and the BMCC. For some it is like heresy but everybody would have drooled on an APSC size sensor camera with gh2 resolution, about 12 stop of DR, low light of the 5dmark3 and 220 mbits prores image with a Ninja 1.5 years ago. the only prayer for me would be 10 bit output for now until raw can become mainstream. I also have to think in terms of production environment if I want to do film that I have to have reliable cameras (at least 2) and reduce the maximum number of point of failure with native set of lens, no adapter that can fail etc. etc. To have cameras where I don't even know how much space is left on the disk etc. or moire/aliasing and in the end things like lighting will make so much more difference than any raw.

 

To come back to the D5300, why I am interested to get the d5300 is because the FPN is annoying, I can live with it but an FPN free image would be much more than a simple upgrade. I like to get in those deep deep shadows that the Nikons have to get the most out of the DR of the camera. The second thing is the 60p, for filming my fashion shoot it will be huge. even if for now until we get external recorders that do 60fps 1080p out of the hdmi. But I think next year we will see in next atomos ninja with the number of 60p camera with uncompressed hdmi coming out. So in the end we might be getting very close to Canon Cinema EOS line of image quality for $ 800 and even getting 60p.

 

The last thing I will talk about the industry in general. What many video/slr website don't take into account is the vast vast vast Nikon world. Contrary to what many on here were talking about the demise of Nikon, they have survived 6 long years to Canon dominance between 2000 to 2007 until the Nikon D300 and D3. One of the big reason is the lens and ecosystem. I can mount 50 year old lens on my camera if I want or if I buy a lens tomorrow I know that I will be able to but it on a camera for decades. This market won't just disappear even if tomorrow cell phone kills the low end. The enthusiast semi pro and pro are not going to cell phone any-time soon and both Canon and Nikon will still be billion dollar company in 5 years. They might adapt but they won't just disappear overnight.

 

So what about this huge Nikon slr market, if only 1 out of 5 Nikon users cares about video it might be more than lumix users. That is why you will more and more Nikon users because they will start to push the video button and the image will be so good that they won't be interested to buy other equipment, but will search for Nikon related test and info on the video capability of their camera. The one who understand that will get part of this cake.

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Whether the image is usable or not is one thing but I can say that Neat Video easily removes the noise. The image does not appear to lose any significant amount of details.

 

@Danyyyel, have you ever considered opening a thread for Nikon shooters which could provide a platform to share all the tricks and suggestions. I would really benefit from such a thread. 

A good place to start is here or on Dvxuser nikon forum. I have posted some test there for the D800 and mostly d7100 now. The lack of info is just terrible for such good camera as the latest Nikon.

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A good place to start is here or on Dvxuser nikon forum. I have posted some test there for the D800 and mostly d7100 now. The lack of info is just terrible for such good camera as the latest Nikon.

Actually, I have been following your posts closely and I also own a D7100. As an amateur, I have a lot to learn and in regards to the suggestion of separate topic similar to the one on Dvxuser, I thought that having a topic about how to shoot with Nikon cameras would be useful. May be we could use this thread.

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Actually, I have been following your posts closely and I also own a D7100. As an amateur, I have a lot to learn and in regards to the suggestion of separate topic similar to the one on Dvxuser, I thought that having a topic about how to shoot with Nikon cameras would be useful. May be we could use this thread.

 

Such a topic would be great, although I'd suggest starting a separate thread for it. I've been shooting with D800 for quite a while, and there really isn't many online discussing issues/solutions etc.

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Actually, I have been following your posts closely and I also own a D7100. As an amateur, I have a lot to learn and in regards to the suggestion of separate topic similar to the one on Dvxuser, I thought that having a topic about how to shoot with Nikon cameras would be useful. May be we could use this thread.

 

I'd be up for this too, though I'd really rather it was a new thread.

And if we do it on this forum we may need to dodge the odd bullet every now and again. *Ahem*

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Maybe we should create something fresh on vimeo instead? Or, perhaps there's already one? Or, rename the D5300 vimeo group that Matt already created to be for general Nikon video? That way, we won't have to worry about troubling those uninterested on this site with our Nikon-centric dialogue.

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Just to make the life of us Nikonians a little more difficult, but please watch this film by Johnnie from Cinema5D, the 70D

 

 

Although you get no Nikon-stills, and probably moire, aliasing and mushy codec... but I really like the organic/cinematic quality of this handheld shooting, although he probably filmed it during the Golden Hour, but... AF seems a big step upward, considering you don't especially need a rig or follow focus for runandgun shoots anymore...

 

I really was thinking about getting a D5200 or 5300, but then I need new lenses and I'm tempted to buy the Ninja 2 as well (if you got clean HDMI out, you might as well use it, although no more small signature shooting then)... but since I already have a Canon 24-105/f4 L lens as well as a Sigma 30mm prime, wouldn't be the 70D a better choice? Anyone seen a similar great looking D7100/D5300 film yet?

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Maybe we should create something fresh on vimeo instead? Or, perhaps there's already one? Or, rename the D5300 vimeo group that Matt already created to be for general Nikon video? That way, we won't have to worry about troubling those uninterested on this site with our Nikon-centric dialogue.

I've started a thread in the forum of the vimeo D5300 group: vimeo.com/groups/d5300/forum/topic:261256

 

You may have to join the group first: vimeo.com/groups/d5300

 

(sorry no hyperlinks because it tries to display a video)  :angry:

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Correction to my post of 24th November."The D5300 user manual is 84 pages and whilst is adequate for stills photography there is only two pages
on recording movies !! Nikon should get their act together they are leaving purchasers in the dark about the settings available for high quality video."
 
This evening I had a look at the CD that came with the camera, there is D5300 Reference manual on it as a pdf  280 pages including
index.This goes in to far more depth than the printed booklet.
 
  I am very happy with the camera though shooting video on it is taking some getting used to coming from a camcorder background.
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JBraddock

Actually, I have been following your posts closely and I also own a D7100. As an amateur, I have a lot to learn and in regards to the suggestion of separate topic similar to the one on Dvxuser, I thought that having a topic about how to shoot with Nikon cameras would be useful. May be we could use this thread.

dahlfors
Such a topic would be great, although I'd suggest starting a separate thread for it. I've been shooting with D800 for quite a while, and there really isn't many online discussing issues/solutions etc.
Matt James Smith
I'd be up for this too, though I'd really rather it was a new thread.
And if we do it on this forum we may need to dodge the odd bullet every now and again. *Ahem*
 
There is a "Nikon HDSR International User Group" on vimeo -about 30 members. Although the movies posted
are getting comments there seems to be very little in the forum.
I think a Nikon video group is a great idea but would prefer to see it at this forum as for some reason
posters here are very willing to contribute and discuss.
 
Nikon USA are slowly waking up to the potential of video which is good to see
 
 
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