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Panasonic FF L-mount Cine camera coming

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Just now, KnightsFan said:

In the updated newsshooter article, Panasonic reps said they have not yet decided if 4k60 will be cropped or full frame. https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/06/01/panasonic-s1h-full-frame-mirrorless-6k-24p/

Thank you for that. I really hope it's not. 4k60 is less bandwidth than 5.9k/30p (assuming it really is 5.9k and not upscaled) so I don't think it's a sensor issue.

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"I think people are also underestimating the value of a flippy screen. Some vloggers have been using Pana G85's or GH5's almost solely for the flip screen"

Besides "selfies", there is significant utility in monitoring from low/high/side angles...one of the benefits of these small form factor cameras ability to use in tight spaces and unusual angles at a moment's notice...moreso if you have IBIS

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Some thoughts regarding the new body:

1. Cannot be weathersealed with the vent holes.

2. It's looking like there is a fan in there. 

3. No IBIS

One wonders why they kept this form factor? It dosen't really seem to lend itself to hybrid work. 

 

IMG_20190601_123552.jpg

S1H.jpg

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Just now, TheBoogieKnight said:

Thank you for that. I really hope it's not. 4k60 is less bandwidth than 5.9k/30p (assuming it really is 5.9k and not upscaled) so I don't think it's a sensor issue.

It's not about card bandwidth (if that's what you mean), it's a heat and processing issue. A full sensor readout still has to read all the sensor pixels, even if it then downscales to 4k. So it would be reading 5.9k at 60 fps in order to get the full field of view. The camera probably does not have the capability to read the full sensor at 60 frames per second, either because the processor is too slow, or it generates too much heat.

To get a FF look, they'd have to bin or line skip to avoid reading 24MP at 60fps. So it's either keep the FOV and have binning artifacts, or crop and get fewer artifacts in the image.

1 minute ago, DBounce said:

1. Cannot be weathersealed with the vent holes.

2. It's looking like there is a fan in there. 

True. However, it seems like it is still in development to some degree. Maybe they didn't show the vent because it isn't finalized? I mean if they haven't yet decided between FF or APS-C for 4k60, maybe they aren't sure how much heat it could generate as an end product either. Total speculation, really, but I guess we will have to wait for release to know for sure.

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Just now, KnightsFan said:

In the updated newsshooter article, Panasonic reps said they have not yet decided if 4k60 will be cropped or full frame. https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/06/01/panasonic-s1h-full-frame-mirrorless-6k-24p/

Annunciation that they have not yet decided... Price is not decided... IBIS yes or no... HDMI out what who knows... Heat safe but will safely stop if heat become dangerous... Not just confusion and disaster, but more and more looks to me as new margin of desperate shameless testing game.

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1 minute ago, anonim said:

Annunciation that they have not yet decided... Price is not decided... IBIS yes or no... HDMI out what who knows... Heat safe but will safely stop if heat become dangerous... Not just confusion and disaster, but more and more looks to me as new margin of desperate shameless testing game.

Yeah. Maybe they wanted to beat Sony in announcing the A7s3, but wanted to be able to change specs later on in case they get outgunned.

But also, development cycles are getting a lot faster. You see it especially with software. You really have to have betas these days, or the market changes before you can finish a feature.

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6 hours ago, andjo said:

There is one area that favours good AF and that's when covering live events (festivals, sports etc) where you don't have any kind of control over your subject. You have about 1-2 seconds to capture the moment and nailing focus manually within that time frame is quite difficult (atleast for me). In those cases the difference between a average AF and good AF can be a life saver. So I do think that AF provides value to a camera even though maybe a lot of us never have to use it in controlled situations. 

I shoot events with my GH5, which supposedly has unusable auto focus, using single point auto focus with no problem. It's all relative, really. 

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11 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

I shoot events with my GH5, which supposedly has unusable auto focus, using single point auto focus with no problem. It's all relative, really. 

Me too.  I assume you're using the F2.8 panny zooms, which is equivalent to F5.6 DOF even at F2.8 (FF).  Much easier to keep things in focus at F5.6!

I still prefer the FF look and if the A7III had 4K60P I would be using that a lot more (which I use for interviews).  But I have to say the GH5 with the panny zooms has the weight advantage by far, just so easy to use and switch lenses.

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14 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

Yeah. Maybe they wanted to beat Sony in announcing the A7s3, but wanted to be able to change specs later on in case they get outgunned.

But also, development cycles are getting a lot faster. You see it especially with software. You really have to have betas these days, or the market changes before you can finish a feature.

Yeah, new epoch... What seemed to me as BM's bizarre 9 months beforehand annunciation, now look extremely honorable in comparison with this mode of misty agony of uncertainty оf what to creep, how to charge, with firstly roadmap of paid upgrades now suddenly free (but just somewhere, so making selection between areas) because of obvious disaster of selling.

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6 minutes ago, Eric Calabros said:

It was an odd announcement.. many things are not clear at all. They're definitely afraid of A7S3. 

Or Sony is deadly afraid of Panasonic.

Now that a $2500 Panasonic S1 offer free MC-21 and free VLOG update with internal 4K30/25 10 bit, 4K60 10 bit external. How will A7SIII exceed it for much higher price especially they got push back due to heat issues? Panasonic S1 will even cheaper when A7SIII is released. Panasonic is able to do this with a bigger body, can Sony do it for unlimited recording and similiar features?

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Just now, PrometheusDM said:

Or Sony is deadly afraid of Panasonic.

Now that a $2500 Panasonic S1 offer free MC-21 and free VLOG update with internal 4K30/25 10 bit, 4K60 10 bit external. How will A7SIII exceed it for much higher price especially they got push back due to heat issues? Panasonic S1 will even cheaper when A7SIII is released. Panasonic is able to do this with a bigger body, can Sony do it for unlimited recording and similiar features?

What I'm proud for is reaction of user base, including this forum. Passion and seriousness, in spite of different angles and voices, I think that make serious corrective impact. It seems that S1 price now is mostly in the acceptable and balanced frame for those who, whatever the reason be, need FF - all of that exclusively due to corrective force of market.

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38 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

True. However, it seems like it is still in development to some degree. Maybe they didn't show the vent because it isn't finalized? I mean if they haven't yet decided between FF or APS-C for 4k60, maybe they aren't sure how much heat it could generate as an end product either. Total speculation, really, but I guess we will have to wait for release to know for sure.

It would be great to see a larger rear LCD. I feel sometimes it's difficult to judge critical focus on these tiny screens. Also on larger screens noise can be shown. I doubt they'll do it, but it would be wonderful to see. I don't think Panasonic... or any of the manufactures for that matter should pigeon hole themselves to these older design ideologies. 

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10 hours ago, Amazeballs said:

I am defently not going to invest in Canon. This is the most user unfriendly company who's only purpose is to milk the existing user base and brand wankers. So fuck Canon. 

 

If you don't need afc and ready to shell out for expensive lenses I guess so. You will be banking on L-mount survival though. It might just fail with current tempo. So it's a risky investment imo. I don't argue that S1 has some cool features and panasonic ergonomics is one of the best. I am very sceptical in L-mount as a system and its future. 

ALL native lenses are expensive investments. Right? 

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13 minutes ago, anonim said:

What I'm proud for is reaction of user base, including this forum. Passion and seriousness, in spite of different angles and voices, I think that make serious corrective impact. It seems that S1 price now is mostly in the acceptable and balanced frame for those who, whatever the reason be, need FF - all of that exclusively due to corrective force of market.

One of the reason why I'm active in this forum more is there are so many knowledgeable people. Most people stay objective unlike some toxic website that cater to a particular brand.

Competition is good for everyone. Whether you don't like  for its size, ergonomic, price, it's good that they are pushing the industry forward and should be commended - best EVF, best IBIS, 4K30 internal vlog with XlR audio all for $2000 I paid for it, -6EV, and great sensor.

If you consider what the S1 bring for $2000 that's crazy value compared to 1DXII or 5DIV days. I had a budget of $3500 for a new camera, and I got S1 for $2000.

There are some improvement I wish Panasonic do which is AF and eyeAF similiar to Canon & Sony. They also need better MC-21 EF-L to support AF-C. They also need to make the camera about 15% smaller. Otherwise I'm pretty happy I got the camera for $2000. It's the best purchase I made in the last 10 years. I sold my 5D IV for $2000. 

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26 minutes ago, Eric Calabros said:

It was an odd announcement.. many things are not clear at all. They're definitely afraid of A7S3. 

No one is afraid of the ghost A7SIII that doesn't exist.

Panasonic wanted to get the specs out in some form and let people know what's coming. Other companies have done this its just we don't all have butt love for Sony like others do.

1 minute ago, PrometheusDM said:

One of the reason why I'm active in this forum more is there are so many knowledgeable people. Most people stay objective unlike some toxic website that cater to a particular brand.

Competition is good for everyone. Whether you don't like  for its size, ergonomic, price, it's good that they are pushing the industry forward and should be commended - best EVF, best IBIS, 4K30 internal vlog with XlR audio all for $2000 I paid for it, -6EV, and great sensor.

If you consider what the S1 bring for $2000 that's crazy value compared to 1DXII or 5DIV days. I had a budget of $3500 for a new camera, and I got S1 for $2000.

There are some improvement I wish Panasonic do which is AF and eyeAF similiar to Canon & Sony. They also need better MC-21 EF-L to support AF-C. They also need to make the camera about 15% smaller. Otherwise I'm pretty happy I got the camera for $2000. It's the best purchase I made in the last 10 years. I sold my 5D IV for $2000. 

The Lumix S1 is $2,497 just to be clear. You said $2,000 and that's not correct ( the firmware upgrade might be $2,000).......... No it's not all rainbow and lollypops on the EOS with false info. Carry on.

10 minutes ago, DBounce said:

It would be great to see a larger rear LCD. I feel sometimes it's difficult to judge critical focus on these tiny screens. Also on larger screens noise can be shown. I doubt they'll do it, but it would be wonderful to see. I don't think Panasonic... or any of the manufactures for that matter should pigeon hole themselves to these older design ideologies. 

We get better upgraded technology on the S1H and all you do is complain.....smh

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2 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

No one is afraid of the ghost A7SIII that doesn't exist.

Panasonic wanted to get the specs out in some form and let people know what's coming. Other companies have done this its just we don't all have butt love for Sony like others do.

The Lumix S1 is $2,497 just to be clear. You said $2,000 and that's not correct ( the firmware upgrade might be $2,000).......... No it's not all rainbow and lollypops on the EOS with false info. Carry on.

FW is $199. It's free for existing user until Sept 30. Google if you don't trust me. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1455066-REG/panasonic_dc_s1body_lumix_dc_s1_mirrorless_digital.html

I bought the S1 for $2250 with free battery and grip ($435 value), free 3 year warranty, free FW update. I sold the grip and keep the battery for $250. Net price is $2000. 

If you look up greentoe, it was $2250. I'm sure you can haggle them for less without the free battery and grip. They now offer free MC-21 adapter and free FW update. 

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4 minutes ago, PrometheusDM said:

One of the reason why I'm active in this forum more is there are so many knowledgeable people. Most people stay objective unlike some toxic website that cater to a particular brand.

Competition is good for everyone. Whether you like Panasonic size, ergonomic, price, it's good that they are pushing the industry forward and should be commended - best EVF, best IBIS, 4K30 internal vlog with XlR audio all for $2000 I paid for it, -6EV, and great sensor.

If you consider what the S1 bring for $2000 that's crazy value compared to 1DXII or 5DIV days. I had a budget of $3500 for a new camera, and I got S1 for $2000.

There are some improvement I wish Panasonic do which is AF and eyeAF similiar to Canon & Sony. They also need better MC-21 EF-L to support AF-C. They also need to make the camera about 15% smaller. Otherwise I'm pretty happy I got the camera for $2000. It's the best purchase I made in the last 10 years. I sold my 5D IV for $2000. 

I'm glad and agree... just I'm little bit sad (and don't like at all) that buyers in USA have privileged price and offers in comparison with rest of the world. Also, I just can't quite understand voices that are in hurry to affirm any starting lust-price decision as "normal" or adequate, using endless argument of fan battles. In my mind, we all are cooperative and corrective force. As it can be seen, few months after S1 reached shops, price and offers are significantly changed... What than is the feeling of those who talked about appropriate initial price as they are owed to be manufacturer's ambassadors...

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