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Mattias Burling

I voted for Raw recording on the R

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

I still think the two voting options make this tweet interesting and possibly telling. I think it’s possible that they’re related and Canon is either licensing Canon RawLite to one of the external recorder companies, or Canon is releasing a recorder that offers Canon RawLite. I mean... why make a big stink anout a Raw profile in a camera that’s been out for two years?

Or maybe they’re trying to gauge if people are more interested in internal or external Raw.

Either way, as a Canon fan and customer, I’m intrigued. 

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Another crazy rumor: https://www.canonrumors.com/feature-update-announcements-coming-to-the-canon-eos-r-and-canon-cinema-eos-c200-ahead-of-nab/ - C200 with 422 in 4K (and possibly the elusive 10-bit 4K codec?!).

If Canon puts 422 10-bit in the C200 (or a heavier compression ofCanon raw lite, like 8:1 or 12:1) and adds external raw recording to the EOS R, that would be a huge step for them. Need to get that EOS R crop down to at least a Super35 crop.

Hoping Panasonic gets us an EVA-2 and raw on the S1 soon. That would be my preferred setup, but I do love the C200. 

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1 hour ago, currensheldon said:

Another crazy rumor: https://www.canonrumors.com/feature-update-announcements-coming-to-the-canon-eos-r-and-canon-cinema-eos-c200-ahead-of-nab/ - C200 with 422 in 4K (and possibly the elusive 10-bit 4K codec?!).

If Canon puts 422 10-bit in the C200 (or a heavier compression ofCanon raw lite, like 8:1 or 12:1) and adds external raw recording to the EOS R, that would be a huge step for them. Need to get that EOS R crop down to at least a Super35 crop.

Hoping Panasonic gets us an EVA-2 and raw on the S1 soon. That would be my preferred setup, but I do love the C200. 

Would love to see these features added to this pair. It would boost sales hugely. 

I’m not sure what, if anything can be done for the crop in the R, but if it could be addressed many would jump on board.

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7 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

It's Canon, what you think will happen lol.

it will be lossy raw only ,720p cropped , 8 bit raw. and if you put a ef-s lens then it will be limited to 5 minutes max recording time and no audio ;)  (there will be a paying firmware upgrade next june to get the audio back, it will be called "magic candle" )

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6 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Still external, still crap ergonomics with a recorder, still a wobbly HDMI cable.

I want INTERNAL raw recording.

I'm glad to see you rediscover yourself Andrew and return to the ethos of EOSHD!

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2 minutes ago, nickname said:

i dont think canon will give anybody fullframe raw with dual pixel af for 2400€ even if its only 1080.

tweet was a typo, now they fixed it.

Idk, if Nikon hadn’t announced external Raw, I would probably agree with you... but since they did... I think this could be likely. 

If true, I wonder if the Ninja V will have a Canon RawLite option or if it will be ProRes Raw. 

Like Andrew Reid, I’d rather have internal Raw, but this is still pretty interesting.

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i dont think canon cares what nikon does. nikon did it because they have nothing to loose. canon care more about their eos line.

also raw is not that of a big deal for most. a good compressed codec, fast turnaround, thats what most want. and thats what canon is good at.

but i was wrong on panasonic going fullframe, so maybe i just lack imagination...

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11 minutes ago, mercer said:

Idk, if Nikon hadn’t announced external Raw, I would probably agree with you... but since they did... I think this could be likely. 

This is what makes me think it has legs.

Canon may appear to not seem to care too much about what other manufacturers come out with but I think they make more of a concession when its Nikon.

The only thing against that though is that I would have imagined Nikon would have had a period of exclusivity with Atomos but I suppose that would have been determined by which party needed it more. It may well have been Nikon in this case.

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4 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

This is what makes me think it has legs.

Canon may appear to not seem to care too much about what other manufacturers come out with but I think they make more of a concession when its Nikon.

The only thing against that though is that I would have imagined Nikon would have had a period of exclusivity with Atomos but I suppose that would have been determined by which party needed it more. It may well have been Nikon in this case.

You’d think so, but if Atomos is licensing ProRes Raw from Apple, they probably can’t afford to give exclusivity rights to anyone...

But I still think that Atomos may offer Canon RawLite for the EOS-R.

19 minutes ago, nickname said:

i dont think canon cares what nikon does. nikon did it because they have nothing to loose. canon care more about their eos line.

also raw is not that of a big deal for most. a good compressed codec, fast turnaround, thats what most want. and thats what canon is good at.

but i was wrong on panasonic going fullframe, so maybe i just lack imagination...

Historically, Canon and Nikon react to each other, so this would follow suit. We’ve also heard that Canon is supposedly going to take video more seriously going forward. And finally, if Canon offers external Raw to the EOS-R, they now have a B Camera for the C200, or they have a gateway camera that may cause EOS-R owners to buy a C200 for internal Raw.

But these are just rumors, so who knows... 

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3 minutes ago, mercer said:

You’d think so, but if Atomos is licensing ProRes Raw from Apple, they probably can’t afford to give exclusivity rights to anyone...

But I still think that Atomos may offer Canon RawLite for the EOS-R.

They're having to license some aspect of it from RED so they will certainly want to maximise who gets on board with it.

Yeah, RawLite might be it though.

I'm thinking about that picture of the Canon 8K prototype testing from a few ago that had all of those Atomos recoders hanging off it so maybe there has been some development cooperation there between them.

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34 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

They're having to license some aspect of it from RED so they will certainly want to maximise who gets on board with it.

Yeah, RawLite might be it though.

I'm thinking about that picture of the Canon 8K prototype testing from a few ago that had all of those Atomos recoders hanging off it so maybe there has been some development cooperation there between them.

Wait... Red? Why? 

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External raw would be great on the EOS R, but I'm wondering if Canon will update their Cinema Raw Lite to add different compression ratios - 8:1 and 12:1. That would make the whole "C200 needs 10-bit codecs!!!" argument moot, since 8:1 is about the same size as ProRes 422 and 12:1 is quite a bit smaller than the usual h264 10-bit codecs on the GH5/EVA-1/C300II.

Perhaps Canon will now that ProRes Raw and BM Raw are out and about. That would be HUGE for me, as C200 Raw is still massive file sizes. 

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Canon EOS-R raw over HDMI?  Oh boy!...this has Jeremy Young's (Atomos CEO) fingerprints ALL over it!  He has been talking with all the camera companies about engineering their data pipeline to allow for the HDMI data bus to tap into raw sensor readout. He said last year;  "If you want Canon to do something, have Nikon do it first. If you want Sony to do something, have Panasonic do it first"

This is the exact order we have:

#1 Nikon, #2 Canon, #3 Panny, #4 Sony.

Lol....this one guy is pushing them all into his raw sensor data over HDMI trick! I friggin LOVE this guy!

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I always wanted 1.8x crop raw on a $800 extra (with battery) that adds an extra pound with (as Andrew says) wobbly hdmi cable. The 70ms RS is the icing on the cake! I know some of you say that you only care to shoot 1080p, that's great, in 2012-2018 maybe, but it's 2019! I can see a big difference even on my phone, when it recorded in 4k and playing in 1440p. TV's are also much bigger, not to mention 4K UST projectors are getting quite cheap and I have seen many people set those up now (120" + screen at 7" from wall). 

I can see the appeal of raw, but I personally would rather just have 10-bit internal 4k with low RS and low to no crop. I would take that anyday over external raw on what I mentioned above. It will come in time and we might even see an R body within a year, that lacks the drawbacks. Raw on the eos r would be much more attractive, with low RS and crop. Thats why I feel they might actually do it, that addition won't threaten their segmentation of the C line; I can see them omitting 1080p from the raw, just like they did with the current 10-bit external to protect the c100 lol. 

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6 hours ago, mercer said:

Wait... Red? Why? 

RED started a lawsuit against Atomos that was recently dropped when a licensing deal was struck.

It hasn't been officially confirmed which particular RED patent lawsuit was related to but it was filed within weeks of Atomos announcing ProResRAW recording at last year's NAB so, you know....

https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/01/24/atomos-and-red-announce-a-royalty-based-license-agreement/

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2 hours ago, Snowbro said:

I always wanted 1.8x crop raw on a $800 extra (with battery) that adds an extra pound with (as Andrew says) wobbly hdmi cable. The 70ms RS is the icing on the cake! I know some of you say that you only care to shoot 1080p, that's great, in 2012-2018 maybe, but it's 2019! I can see a big difference even on my phone, when it recorded in 4k and playing in 1440p. TV's are also much bigger, not to mention 4K UST projectors are getting quite cheap and I have seen many people set those up now (120" + screen at 7" from wall). 

I can see the appeal of raw, but I personally would rather just have 10-bit internal 4k with low RS and low to no crop. I would take that anyday over external raw on what I mentioned above. It will come in time and we might even see an R body within a year, that lacks the drawbacks. Raw on the eos r would be much more attractive, with low RS and crop. Thats why I feel they might actually do it, that addition won't threaten their segmentation of the C line; I can see them omitting 1080p from the raw, just like they did with the current 10-bit external to protect the c100 lol. 

Moaning is always the easiest thing. That rolling shutter is probably measured for FF stills, it is around 30ms for 4k, quite close to the 1DC which is of course quite severe, but if I search around for 1DC footage, I don't see it looking like crap, the opposite. And it uses 8-bit 4:2:2 MJPEG, which is very far from Prores RAW (which is what the 1DXII also uses without Log btw, can't wait to see someone doing a dynamic range comparison on that)

This is not destined to be an A-cam, it has its limitations but it's looking like an even better B-cam for the C200 now. Yes, they will release a much better video-stills camera with probably a similar sensor to the 1DXIII (I guess around 24MP and 1.5x 4k60p crop, I would forget about FF but we'll see), but it will be bloody expensive.

It well and truly buries 4k ML raw in the 5D III for good, that's really not bad at all for around 1500$ grey market plus the cost of the recorder (after reselling the kit lens, which is also rather decent).

Personally, I just use the 1.8x(1.9x with IS) cropped 1080p internal recording on the R (sometimes in FF, but the crop is downsampled, so not really degraded with electronic IS), and for now, it is perfectly fine for my needs, and I don't move the camera around like crazy.

I liked how the 6D Mark II looked in comparison to the A7s, but it was very soft, and now I am fine with cropping in (and with more rs, similar to the A7s) for fixing that, but still have pleasant looking 1080p footage (with AF, although I think I still like MF better, after using it for long).

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1 hour ago, padam said:

Moaning is always the easiest thing. That rolling shutter is probably measured for FF stills, it is around 30ms for 4k, quite close to the 1DC which is of course quite severe, but if I search around for 1DC footage, I don't see it looking like crap, the opposite. And it uses 8-bit 4:2:2 MJPEG, which is very far from Prores RAW (which is what the 1DXII also uses without Log btw, can't wait to see someone doing a dynamic range comparison on that)

This is not destined to be an A-cam, it has its limitations but it's looking like an even better B-cam for the C200 now. Yes, they will release a much better video-stills camera with probably a similar sensor to the 1DXIII (I guess around 24MP and 1.5x 4k60p crop, I would forget about FF but we'll see), but it will be bloody expensive.

It well and truly buries 4k ML raw in the 5D III for good, that's really not bad at all for around 1500$ grey market plus the cost of the recorder (after reselling the kit lens, which is also rather decent).

Personally, I just use the 1.8x(1.9x with IS) cropped 1080p internal recording on the R (sometimes in FF, but the crop is downsampled, so not really degraded with electronic IS), and for now, it is perfectly fine for my needs, and I don't move the camera around like crazy.

I liked how the 6D Mark II looked in comparison to the A7s, but it was very soft, and now I am fine with cropping in (and with more rs, similar to the A7s) for fixing that, but still have pleasant looking 1080p footage (with AF, although I think I still like MF better, after using it for long).

No, it has extremely bad rolling shutter in video. You really want to go all the way back to 2012? ?. Anyway, it sounds like you probably shouldn't stop at a 1.8x crop, hopefully canon will release a locked 8x crop for you one day! Btw, I owned the 1dx ii and eos r; I think the 1080p in the eos r looks very good, just not in 60p, it looks terrible in 60. 

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