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I voted for Raw recording on the R


Mattias Burling

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Yeah it's kind of tiring defending why the camera works best for me even if I understand why it doesn't for others. I say it time again different strokes for different folks..

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

It is not internal focus. I have the lens. You don't. If you had even even used one, you'll see (and hear) the grinding, heavy front element moving significantly forth and back as it focuses and you can even feel the weight of the glass shifting forward and backwards as you go about shooting.

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Not only have I used it but I have footage I shot with it right here on my computer and i'm not hearing any 'grinding' ? maybe you got a bad copy?

A quick look on KR's review and it also states: 

Autofocus

USM ultrasonic motor.

Internal focus; no external movement as focused, so no air or dust is sucked in.

Noise and Vibration

It makes the usual quiet sliding sounds as it focuses.

https://kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/lenses/50mm-f12.htm

?

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So you're saying it's good for an extremely limited range of filmmaking then.

I mostly shoot FHD with the camera so RS isn't a problem for me no matter the shooting style..

I'm not into very dynamic action shots anyways but when I do switch to 4K i just make sure I'm extra steady (and avoid trains!).

Anyways, like I said if you are a 4K only shooter this camera probably isn't going to be top of the list (more like bottom). No argument there.

I see it as a great FF stills / FHD video MILC with bonus crippled 4K. Also a good B-cam to a C-line cam.

I'm looking forward to RAW external, especially if they allow FHD Raw as I miss Canon RAW IQ from my 5D3 ML days..

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It's Canon, what you think will happen lol.

I agree that it's not always helpful to get hung up on specs and that ease of use, reliability, feel, ergonomics are more important. Here's my opinion: the EOS R is a dog in this regard. It's not

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50 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Not correct. LOG is available.

It's greyed out in the menus in stills mode. The only way to enable it is to assign a custom movie mode to C3 movie mode and then assign C3 to the record button.

So you cannot shoot in 4K Canon LOG, in the same stills mode you are using for stills, unless it matches what you previously assigned to C3 movie mode.

Do you really think this is ergonomic?

50 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Personally I shoot HD on all stills cameras (Sony, Fuji, etc) because of rolling shutter. The EOS-R has no RS in HD. So it is full frame for me.
(4K on these consumer stills cameras doesn't make any sense for me for other reasons as well like file size, computer power and that no one can see the difference anyway. Not online and not on the big screen. So I dont bother, 4K better be on a real camera or not at all. But if one must have 4K I agree, framing would be difficult if one isn't quick enough.)

There were people who used to shoot 720p in the 1080p era for various reasons (60p for example) and I certainly don't begrudge you your preferences, it's a personal matter... Right tool for your job is clearly 1080.... But you're kinda implying 4K isn't relevant in 2019 which is a bit tin-eared... the vast majority of us are interested in the highest possible cinematic image quality and resolution, and want to take advantage of technology.

50 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

For me there was simply to many upsides. Biggest and most affordable lens line in history, top display, ergonomics, no RS, Full Frame video with C-log, Canon colors, 30mp stills, 8fps Raw continuous AF with a huge buffer, DPAF for stills (loved it since the 6Dmkii), good EVF, and more. All at a competitive price.

No rolling shutter? In 1080p it's still there and in 4K it's amongst worst on the market.

 

8 minutes ago, Django said:

Yeah it's kind of tiring defending why the camera works best for me even if I understand why it doesn't for others. I say it time again different strokes for different folks..

Not only have I used it but I have footage I shot with it right here on my computer and i'm not hearing any 'grinding' ? maybe you got a bad copy?

A quick look on KR's review and it also states: 

Autofocus

USM ultrasonic motor.

Internal focus; no external movement as focused, so no air or dust is sucked in.

Noise and Vibration

It makes the usual quiet sliding sounds as it focuses.

https://kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/lenses/50mm-f12.htm

?

I mostly shoot FHD with the camera so RS isn't a problem for me no matter the shooting style..

Another FHD shooter. Not too demanding on the technology are you?

KR's review can go to hell.

The external movement is on the front element, reassessed in the barrel and exposed to dirt. My lens is brand new from Amazon. It is noisy. It is not internal focus. It is basically dated technology on the mechanical side and just not worth the £2200 it cost me. It's going back.

Just to ensure you don't think I am doing an April fools

Proof enough?

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40 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

It's greyed out in the menus in stills mode. The only way to enable it is to assign a custom movie mode to C3 movie mode and then assign C3 to the record button.

So you cannot shoot in 4K Canon LOG, in the same stills mode you are using for stills, unless it matches what you previously assigned to C3 movie mode.

Do you really think this is ergonomic?

There were people who used to shoot 720p in the 1080p era for various reasons (60p for example) and I certainly don't begrudge you your preferences, it's a personal matter... Right tool for your job is clearly 1080.... But you're kinda implying 4K isn't relevant in 2019 which is a bit tin-eared... the vast majority of us are interested in the highest possible cinematic image quality and resolution, and want to take advantage of technology.

No rolling shutter? In 1080p it's still there and in 4K it's amongst worst on the market.

 

Another FHD shooter. Not too demanding on the technology are you?

KR's review can go to hell.

The external movement is on the front element, reassessed in the barrel and exposed to dirt. My lens is brand new from Amazon. It is noisy. It is not internal focus. It is basically dated technology on the mechanical side and just not worth the £2200 it cost me. It's going back.

Just to ensure you don't think I am doing an April fools

Proof enough?

Ha ha......happy april fools

I did play around for this lens...in fact the lens do have noisy sound during focusing

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34 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Another FHD shooter. Not too demanding on the technology are you?

 

Lol.. talk to my clients (or don't actually!) 4K just hasn't been serious enough of a demand to yet retire my C100 & EOS R.

That combo still delivers excellent results.. although i will surely upgrade to C200 soon (especially if the 10-bit internal codec rumour is true)

Obviously i do shoot commercial projects in 4K with A73/FS7 etc... so no I'm not exactly a full-time "FHD shooter".. but even then it does usually end up in a 1080p timeline anyways.

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Proof enough?

Yup.. guess i didn't pay close attention to that when i tried it (had the sun hood on). 

I passed on that lens anyways.. way too heavy/expensive (35mm 1.8 Macro the only RF on my radar).

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Yeah you don't pay close attention, that much is evident. Big grinding heavy element moving around and you don't notice?!

Customers like you are the reason Canon wins and innovation fails every time.

4 minutes ago, Django said:

I passed on that lens anyways.. way too heavy/expensive (35mm 1.8 Macro the only RF on my radar).

The focus on that one is even worse. It has the cheapest possible moving front element in some kind of plastic that extends very far outwards especially when macro focussing, prone to wobbly and damage. It makes the cheaper Canon EF 35mm F2.0 IS look positively space age. That does have internal focus, whereas Canon didn't think to add it on a mirrorless camera lens where it's most needed.

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FYI i tried out the lens at a busy EOS R launch event 8 months ago..  and lost interest rather quickly. it's not like I was doing a pro review either (unlike Ken Rockwell, shame on him now). If you feel so strongly about it, post a review on the front page, maybe Canon will listen. Me, i vote with my wallet and move on..

 

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22 minutes ago, Django said:

FYI i tried out the lens at a busy EOS R launch event 8 months ago..  and lost interest rather quickly. it's not like I was doing a pro review either (unlike Ken Rockwell, shame on him now). If you feel so strongly about it, post a review on the front page, maybe Canon will listen. Me, i vote with my wallet and move on..

 

As I already own the EF version the R version seemed redundant to me. Noise is not a issue as I alway record external if the audio is important. Internal is just scratch.

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Yeah the price, size & weight is what immediately put me off (vs the EF version). i won't be buying any big expensive RF glass until pro body shows up.

RF 35mm is still on my radar though, despite the moving front element. It's small, light, fast enough & has IS & macro. all for under $500. not bad.

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1 hour ago, Django said:

FYI i tried out the lens at a busy EOS R launch event 8 months ago..  and lost interest rather quickly. it's not like I was doing a pro review either (unlike Ken Rockwell, shame on him now). If you feel so strongly about it, post a review on the front page, maybe Canon will listen. Me, i vote with my wallet and move on..

 

 

1 hour ago, DBounce said:

As I already own the EF version the R version seemed redundant to me. Noise is not a issue as I alway record external if the audio is important. Internal is just scratch.

You were both a big fan of the R until now, bit of a u-turn if you ask me.

Maybe get your facts right in future before advocating for one thing over the other?!

50 minutes ago, Django said:

Yeah the price, size & weight is what immediately put me off (vs the EF version). i won't be buying any big expensive RF glass until pro body shows up.

RF 35mm is still on my radar though, despite the moving front element. It's small, light, fast enough & has IS & macro. all for under $500. not bad.

It is true the 50mm F1.2L has grown in size at every generation.

FD was smallest

EF grew fat

R is just ridiculous.

And funnily enough the FD is my favourite for image quality and sharper than the EF version!

2 hours ago, Jrteh said:

However...it is hard to convince me to purchase this lens.  It is expensive and old design.

On the other hand. I do agreed with andrew.  The design of eos r  is not people-oriented and  ergonomics 

 

That post frame on youtube really does sum it up. Awful cheap de-pad feel and too small. Stupid lack of dual card slots. Weird on/off dial in weird place wasting space on top of camera. And don't get me started on the m'fucking bar or complete lack of mode dial.

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2 hours ago, Jrteh said:

On the other hand. I do agreed with andrew.  The design of eos r  is not people-oriented and  ergonomics 

 

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Let's break it down.. on the plus side he admits:

"the grip is the best i've seen on MILC" "the flip screen is outstanding" "touchscreen / menu system is amazing" "lens control ring is smart, others need to do this".

Those four alone are really important for ergonomics IMO. 

The rest is subjective towards your way of shooting. Personally, I hate mode dials. Much rather have the 3 custom still modes + 3 custom movie modes only possible with EOS R paradigm.

His issues with the top dials could be dealt with the game-changing FV mode (no more Mf-N presses needed).

Touch AF point selection? I'm left-eye dominant as he is, i don't understand what his problem is with using your left thumb? this frees up my right thumb for other things like BBF.

The missing thumb wheel. Touché, I miss that one too.

He then compares it to the Z.. great interface there as well no doubt.. but one thing he doesn't touch upon, is the optional vertical grip which is mandatory for my style of shooting.

Nikon dropped the ball hard here with no bottom contacts allowing vertical grip shoot. This was actually a pretty big deal breaker for me personally.

25 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

 

You were both a big fan of the R until now, bit of a u-turn if you ask me.

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...what u-turn? I'm still a fan of the R (I just don't own any RF glass). it's kind of sad being attacked for that.

 I was wrong about the front moving element on the 50RF, i fessed up to it. let's move on..

 

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1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

 

You were both a big fan of the R until now, bit of a u-turn if you ask me.

Maybe get your facts right in future before advocating for one thing over the other?!

Not sure where you are reading that I have somehow flip flopped on the R. It’s an easy to use body that puts out a great image. 

I don’t own every Canon lens. And have no plans to get everything they produce. I own what works for me. 

The new R super wide 15-35mm F2.8 will be in my collection once available. But outside of that I do not feel drawn to anything else at the moment.

I rather like the EF ND adapter. It has given new life to my EF glass. None of this is a knock on the R.

Is it perfect? No! But what is? I will say this, if you believe all it’s good for is static shots then you need to re-examine your shooting technique. Because there are many examples of it being used successfully in non-static scenes.

Oh noooosss... the rolling shutter?

 

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6 hours ago, Django said:

Let's break it down.. on the plus side he admits:

"the grip is the best i've seen on MILC" "the flip screen is outstanding" "touchscreen / menu system is amazing" "lens control ring is smart, others need to do this".

 

Hype, much? It's a grip, and quite a normal one. Nothing outstanding. Other mirrorless cameras have more comfortable or larger ones, and sometimes both at the same time. Nothing about the EOS R grip is special or amazing. Flip screen outstanding? What's different about it vs the GH5's screen?

Lens control ring is useless fly by wire setting roulette / wheel of fortune and totally out of place on professional lenses.

6 hours ago, Django said:

Those four alone are really important for ergonomics IMO.

There's only three. Screen / menus / control ring. Have we forgotten something more important... Hmm, let's see.... Full frame no crop 4K perhaps. How about a sensor that is this year's technology not 2014's.... Maybe an IBIS system of some sort like all the competition has already... X-H1 (Fuji), Z6 (Nikon), A7 III (Sony), GH5 (Panasonic), E-M1 II / X (Olympus) but oh no, not Canon! Because they are unique and special and wonderful all on their own island (Hawaii)

6 hours ago, Django said:

The rest is subjective towards your way of shooting. Personally, I hate mode dials. Much rather have the 3 custom still modes + 3 custom movie modes only possible with EOS R paradigm.

Says hates mode dials... Says how much like modes.

6 hours ago, Django said:

His issues with the top dials could be dealt with the game-changing FV mode (no more Mf-N presses needed).

Touch AF point selection? I'm left-eye dominant as he is, i don't understand what his problem is with using your left thumb? this frees up my right thumb for other things like BBF.

The missing thumb wheel. Touché, I miss that one too.

Not only no thumb wheel but no jog wheel either. 2009's 5D Mark II is laughing at you.

6 hours ago, Django said:

He then compares it to the Z.. great interface there as well no doubt.. but one thing he doesn't touch upon, is the optional vertical grip which is mandatory for my style of shooting.

Nikon dropped the ball hard here with no bottom contacts allowing vertical grip shoot. This was actually a pretty big deal breaker for me personally.

...what u-turn? I'm still a fan of the R (I just don't own any RF glass). it's kind of sad being attacked for that.

 I was wrong about the front moving element on the 50RF, i fessed up to it. let's move on..

Ah the vertical grip for portrait aspect ratio shoots, always a useful filmmaking tool!

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I tried to stay out of this conversation this time but it just amazes me of how much effort Canon sympathizers have to put to make a lesser - and very expensive - camera seem like an amazing top choice when clearly is not.

When the arguments are like:

It doesnt have this but i do not need it

It has the worst rolling shutter, but i do not shoot trains

This lens is super quite and blah blah, when obviously isn't.

Then logic is completely thrown out of the window, from a moving train.

This is a fight one can't win, if Canon doesn't have it - it is not important.

If it does have it, it must be best in business. 

Seems in 2019 they have run out of excuses.

Tmrow I will be working with 2 X GH5 and 12-100/12-60, Wensday with 2 X NX1 16-50S/12-24 and Thursday with the C200/5DmkIIO 24-70/70-200. Guess which system I am NOT really looking forward to work with..

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22 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Tmrow I will be working with 2 X GH5 and 12-100/12-60, Wensday with 2 X NX1 16-50S/12-24 and Thursday with the C200/5DmkIIO 24-70/70-200. Guess which system I am NOT really looking forward to work with..

I’ve owned all those cameras... I still own the C200 and do not miss the rest.

There is really one major reason I prefer the EOS R to the other hybrids... I prefer the image.

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1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

I tried to stay out of this conversation this time but it just amazes me of how much effort Canon sympathizers have to put to make a lesser - and very expensive - camera seem like an amazing top choice when clearly is not.

 

..And I'm amazed by the backlash against anybody that is ok shooting a Canon camera.. 

Nobody ever claimed it was the best camera out there.. I even specifically said if you are a 4K only shooter, it is probably among the worst.

But yes some people may use it mainly as a FF photography tool, others may shoot FF HD,  4K on gimbals/sticks, or as a B-cam to a 1DX2/C100/200..etc

Yes these cases do exist, and for those who use it like that, its a logical choice. Now do I wish it had a global shutter with 10-bit 4:2:2 internal and 4K120p? 

Sure but it doesn't so you kinda work around it.. the ergonomics, color science, codec, AF, lens lineup are usually what draw people to Canon in the first place.

The limitations of EOS R have been spoken to death since launch, I don't really understand the need to repeat them ad nauseam every other post of any Canon related news.

Its like Groundhog Day... can't we ever try and focus on anything positive around here? External raw is the topic of the day.. 

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2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Hype, much? It's a grip, and quite a normal one. Nothing outstanding. Other mirrorless cameras have more comfortable or larger ones, and sometimes both at the same time. Nothing about the EOS R grip is special or amazing. Flip screen outstanding? What's different about it vs the GH5's screen?

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Sure GH5 has a nice flip out screen. However no FF MILC aside from EOS R/RP  seem to have chosen to go that route.

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

There's only three. Screen / menus / control ring. Have we forgotten something more important... Hmm, let's see.... Full frame no crop 4K perhaps. How about a sensor that is this year's technology not 2014's.... Maybe an IBIS system of some sort like all the competition has already... X-H1 (Fuji), Z6 (Nikon), A7 III (Sony), GH5 (Panasonic), E-M1 II / X (Olympus) but oh no, not Canon! Because they are unique and special and wonderful all on their own island (Hawaii)

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Canon have been lagging behind in sensor & IBIS tech. it's no secret. You'll be happy to know (or not) they do plan on bringing IBIS.. probably on their upcoming pro body.

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Says hates mode dials... Says how much like modes.

 

Yup i hate mode dials will all those useless mode positions i never use, much prefer direct access to custom or AV via mode button. just like on pro Nikon bodies or 1DX series.

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Ah the vertical grip for portrait aspect ratio shoots, always a useful filmmaking tool!

1

You do realize it's also used as a photography tool right? ;) 

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Well yeah for me the image is the most important, all the whistles and bells I do not really care for, and I would def buy a eos R if it did not have that crazy crop. Thats the main reason Im not buying one even if it does RAW in the future, either they should release a speedbooster to compensate or loose the crop all togheter. 

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