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Zach Goodwin2

What Do Y'all Think of The Kinefinity Mavo LF?

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I'm just not sure, the blackmagics are way cheaper, the c200 a bit cheaper and the reds at the opposite side with redraw and a well established system.

I would love a play with one especially alongside a cheaper and more expensive option to see how it fits but I'd be more likely to get a pocket 4k to go along my fujis. If I was doing a feature film anytime soon I'd look hard at Red Gemini I think. 

I like that a more established model has more community and range of luts around it.

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Look very cool on paper, If I could justify the cost, It  would probably be my top pick,

but full frame without autofocus is a pain if you are a solo operator, and to shoot with a lens longer than  50mm.

I run a7iii+ninja V +batis , I would be curious to compare the IQ of the mavo vs my setup.


I think the mavo lf is a bit like the Red raven, too cheap for big production, too expensive for small production.

Speaking about the Raven I m doing the post production of a short shoot on it, colors are nice but I m not impressed by the noise performance/DR, it s hard to justify the price of it.

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On 11/2/2018 at 8:28 PM, Zach Goodwin2 said:

Personally, I think the Mavo will be a better low light camera than the RED Gemini and at the same time be much more cheaper and efficient.


Isn't the Terra 4K / BMPCC4K / GH5S already matching in the same league for lowlight as Gemini?

And obviously the Mavo LF is far cheaper than Gemini! That we know already. 

The Terra bodies are more energy efficient than REDs (roughly double the power is needed for a RED DSMC2 body vs a Kinefinity Terra body) so it wouldn't surprise me if the same is perhaps true for the MAVO LF as well.

 

(I checked the specs just now, and the MAVO LF only needs 10% more Watts than the Kinefinity Terra 4K draws)

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I'll have an answer for you soon - I'm shooting the official launch film for it :).

Here's my unboxing of the Mavo LF - the first one to land in the US - with a tiny bit of actual production footage at the end of the video. (sorry for the audio. I'm deep in pre-pro and was rushing to get the unboxing out while in the midst of other prep). 

 

On 11/4/2018 at 3:43 AM, maxmizer said:

because it is nothing exceptional in relation to the competitors.

This couldn't be further from the truth. At a base price of ~$12k it's a fraction of the cost of full-frame competitors - Monstro VV =$80,000, ALEXA LF = $98,000, Canon C700= $33,000, Sony Venice = $42,500. it's a dual-native ISO 800/5120, a feature none of the competitors offer (the Varicam has a similar dual native, but isn't full-frame). Also it's a fraction of the size/weight of all those other cameras. But, yeah, nothing special.

Been shooting tests all week, production starts on Saturday.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Raafi Rivero said:

I'll have an answer for you soon - I'm shooting the official launch film for it :).

Here's my unboxing of the Mavo LF - the first one to land in the US - with a tiny bit of actual production footage at the end of the video. (sorry for the audio. I'm deep in pre-pro and was rushing to get the unboxing out while in the midst of other prep). 

 

This couldn't be further from the truth. At a base price of ~$12k it's a fraction of the cost of full-frame competitors - Monstro VV =$80,000, ALEXA LF = $98,000, Canon C700= $33,000, Sony Venice = $42,500. it's a dual-native ISO 800/5120, a feature none of the competitors offer (the Varicam has a similar dual native, but isn't full-frame). Also it's a fraction of the size/weight of all those other cameras. But, yeah, nothing special.

Been shooting tests all week, production starts on Saturday.

 

 

I think before dumping $12k into this, I would sooner just wait until the Panasonic full frame S1R is released. Reports are it may output raw and will sport built in NDs. I wonder if the raw it outputs will be prores raw? Not sure what ever happened with that standard, but it's Apples codec, and they could buy the entire camera industry with their pocket change. So, I am certain it is going to become a thing. No doubt size, weight and form-factor will also be major advantages also over the Mavo.

PS: That said, I do actually like your unboxing style. Keep it up.

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On 11/2/2018 at 7:28 AM, Zach Goodwin2 said:

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Personally, I think the Mavo will be a better low light camera than the RED Gemini and at the same time be much more cheaper and efficient.

 

I've never used a Mavo or any Kinefinity, however I'm a huge fan of the image and the concept. The product is unique and quite a marvel, despite what some people are saying here. 

If I had that kind of capital lying around and I could justify the investment, it would be a strong asset to have. 

If you wee looking to "upgrade", maybe a Fuji X-T3 or GH5 would be best for you. 

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On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 3:28 AM, Raafi Rivero said:

I'll have an answer for you soon - I'm shooting the official launch film for it :).

Here's my unboxing of the Mavo LF - the first one to land in the US - with a tiny bit of actual production footage at the end of the video. (sorry for the audio. I'm deep in pre-pro and was rushing to get the unboxing out while in the midst of other prep). 

 

This couldn't be further from the truth. At a base price of ~$12k it's a fraction of the cost of full-frame competitors - Monstro VV =$80,000, ALEXA LF = $98,000, Canon C700= $33,000, Sony Venice = $42,500. it's a dual-native ISO 800/5120, a feature none of the competitors offer (the Varicam has a similar dual native, but isn't full-frame). Also it's a fraction of the size/weight of all those other cameras. But, yeah, nothing special.

Been shooting tests all week, production starts on Saturday.

 

 

I disagree.  Kinefinity released the Terra 4K for $4000+ and then Blackmagic turned around and released a BETTER camera (Pocket 4K) for $1295 with more features and better codecs/color science (Blackmagic RAW future update).  I wouldn't be surprised once the MAVO LF comes out that Blackmagic is already making a better camera with the same sensor for half the cost.  The new BRAW codec makes it possible for Blackmagic to now do higher resolutions such as 6K without the need for heavy storage.  The new sensor profiling they do siginificantly reduces Aliasing/Moire as well as Fixed Pattern noise so they can get a significant dynamic range increase over competitors using the same sensor.  Kinefinity cameras are too expensive for a small manufacturer, because at that price point you can now buy other well-established camera brands like RED, CANON, and even Blackmagic.

On top of that, Ursa Mini Pro is practically a more usable camera for professional production because it matches much closer to the industry standard Arri Alexa and has a very good color science.  

MAVO LF looks like a really good camera but they need to drop their price to around $8000 to be competitive with other mid-range priced cameras because Kinefinity is not a well-established brand yet.  I would be very worried if Blackmagic is also designing a camera with this sensor.  Since the Ursa Mini Pro used a custom-designed sensor t hat cost millions of dollars to develop, the camera was priced at $6000.  Since this Sony sensor would be "off the shelf," Blackmagic could easily price the camera at $4000 in an UMP body since they don't care about market segmentation. 

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On 11/16/2018 at 9:28 PM, Raafi Rivero said:

I'll have an answer for you soon - I'm shooting the official launch film for it :).

Here's my unboxing of the Mavo LF - the first one to land in the US - with a tiny bit of actual production footage at the end of the video.

Kinefinity must have really loved your earlier coverage! 😉
 

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On 11/16/2018 at 9:28 PM, Raafi Rivero said:

This couldn't be further from the truth. At a base price of ~$12k it's a fraction of the cost of full-frame competitors - Monstro VV =$80,000, ALEXA LF = $98,000, Canon C700= $33,000, Sony Venice = $42,500. 


Except for the sub $2K Nikon Z6! 😄

Kinda joking though.... as of course it can't do raw. But you're still able to get 10bit 4K!

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6 hours ago, Savannah Miller said:

I disagree.

I kinda agree with you, and I kinda disagree with you. 

As we can look at the BMD vs Kinefinity life cycles for quite a lot further back than just the current generation of cameras. Because they've both been making cameras for a while now. 

And it does seem like a pattern of Kinefinity releasing a camera, then BMD leap frogging them with a product. 

However.... don't stop there, but play it forward another step. And you see Kinefinity bring out a product which then springs back and beats BMD.

And so on and so on this loop plays out. (with BMD/Kinefinity each releasing products)

Thus I'll not at all be surprised if in six months time BMD announces a new camera which looks like it might be able to match up against the Kinefinity Mavo LF but at a lower price? However then it takes another six more months before the BMD product ships and gets it major kinds ironed out. 

And what has happened during those twelve months?

Two things:

1) Mavo LF owners have had a whole year of working and shooting with the Mavo LF, earning money with it and pushing themselves further ahead creatively and professionally

2) Kinefinity has been keeping busy working on their next camera which they then announce, which is better than anything BMD has ever made

And so the cycle carries again and again into the future!

 


Another alternative way to look at it is like this:

Neither company is "better" than the other. 

Instead they've taken two different philosophies as to how to make a camera, and cater to two different market niches. 

Just like RED and ARRI have their points of difference. 

Kinefinity has taken a compact (smaller even than the smallest RED build) and power efficient (thus you can use BP-U30 batteries!) approach with a modular design (like RED). A very different philosophy to BMD's URSA series of cameras. 

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A couple things:

Blackmagic cameras have kinks (for sure) but Kinefinity sees to release cameras that are even more unfinished than Blackmagic cameras.  The Terra 4K was out months before it even could record cinemadng raw.

Secondly, the Pocket 4K's power draw is pretty much on par or better than the Terra 4K.  Blackmagic has mastered the FGPA very well.

Blackmagic cameras do not have an OLPF which means no OLFP artifacts such as the red dot flares that affect Kinefinity cameras.  The new BRAW codec has significantly reduced moire/aliasing that it's not really a problem anymore.

Blackmagic seems siginificantly ahead in color science and creating beautiful images.  Kinefinity cameras are all about size/specs (just like RED cameras to some extent) but Blackmagic is reliable and delivers where it counts.

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13 minutes ago, Savannah Miller said:

Blackmagic cameras have kinks (for sure) but Kinefinity sees to release cameras that are even more unfinished than Blackmagic cameras.  The Terra 4K was out months before it even could record cinemadng raw.


So? This has happened multiple times with BMD camera releases as well.

 

14 minutes ago, Savannah Miller said:

 Secondly, the Pocket 4K's power draw is pretty much on par or better than the Terra 4K.  

The pocket 4K is nearer to a hybrid camera with stills stripped out. 
While the Terra cameras are more like a RED or ARRI Mini 
Different markets, different capabilities. 

 

16 minutes ago, Savannah Miller said:

Blackmagic seems siginificantly ahead in color science and creating beautiful images.  Kinefinity cameras are all about size/specs

Kinefinity is praised too for their color science, some believing it is the closest to Arri outside Arri themselves. 

 

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