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tupp

Cinemartin Fran 8K Global Shutter Camera

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You can order one, but the cool dude with the Ferrari and sunglasses won't tell you the price.

The comment threads on Newsshooter are awesome, the exact opposite of what someone trying to break into a highly competitive market should be doing. He should sell the Ferrari and hire someone to handle the PR/marketing.

Chris

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1 hour ago, Trek of Joy said:

You can order one, but the cool dude with the Ferrari and sunglasses won't tell you the price.

The comment threads on Newsshooter are awesome, the exact opposite of what someone trying to break into a highly competitive market should be doing. He should sell the Ferrari and hire someone to handle the PR/marketing.

Chris

Agreed, apparently someone asked for the price and the answer was that if you need to ask the price you're not a pro 😁 whole thing looks like a joke when looking at the footage and the website, I seriously don't see anyone giving their money to these guys.

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Obviously, this camera is still in the prototype stage, evidently with two guys doing most of the developing.  Hence, there's not much to expect in the way of "marketing."   However, from the videos on their YouTube channel, it seems like they are making some progress.

 

Cinemartin has fabricated a physical housing that doesn't seem fully functional yet.  Again, it looks like they might be building on the innards of the Ximea machine vision camera.  If so, Ximea has done most of the heavy lifting in regards to hardware development.  Not sure if even the Ximea camera has been released.

 

To the Ximea model, Cinemartin seems to be adding:  a display; internal recording; battery connectivity; cinema software controls; software scopes; LUTs; open api (and/or open source OS); and digital stabilization.  Judging from the proportions of the prototype housing, Cinemartin might have spec'd a main circuit board that differs from that of the Ximea.

 

At any rate, I will likely wait to consider shooting 8K for personal projects, until this camera is miniaturized down to the size of an EOSM and until 8K can be edited on a Chromebook.  "4K ought to be enough for anybody."

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There is all kinds of company's that build Industrial cameras for monitoring, surveillance. That doesn't mean they will ever be worth a crap for consumer video. There are all kinds of websites where you can buy sensors all day.

It doesn't mean that it can't turn into a Red camera thing, but to keep waiting for some Holly Grail 8K camera that we hope is Only going to cost 800 Dollars, well good luck with that panning out. This Z Cam 2 thing gets weirder every day let alone this thing. I think this new PK4 has thrown a Monkey Wrench into all of these startups thinking they are the next Arri.

Hell just buy some camera that is proven and get on with it. A old Red Mysterium X would be better than some of these goofball things. What can one of these cameras have over this new  PK4 that any normal person needs, or could even afford the media, computing power?  Who even owns lenses that can resolve 8K? Who Pixar Studios, Disney Studios? It sure ain't that Nifty 50 Canon lens for 199 bucks.

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Even if it does make it to market, it is the worst-designed camera body I've ever seen. It makes the original Red One (a clunky, heavy, loaf-shaped turd with non-sensical UI) look like a masterpiece of industrial design. Holy fuck, who puts a screen on top? Where am I supposed to attach a handle? 

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3 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

There is all kinds of company's that build Industrial cameras for monitoring, surveillance. That doesn't mean they will ever be worth a crap for consumer video.

I doubt that this 8k camera will be intended for "consumer" video.

 

On the other hand, there have been a fair number of machine vision cameras that yield nice images for cinematography.  Some of these cinema machine vision camera companies come and go, but a few stay.  Most notable in the realm would probably be IO Industries.

 

 

3 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

There are all kinds of websites where you can buy sensors all day.

Not sure what is the relevance of this statement, except, perhaps, for the fact that off-the-shelf sensors used in cinematography cameras often see their first use in machine vision cameras.

 

 

3 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

It doesn't mean that it can't turn into a Red camera thing, but to keep waiting for some Holly Grail 8K camera that we hope is Only going to cost 800 Dollars, well good luck with that panning out.

It is doubtful that anyone here is waiting for this camera to be released, nor does anybody expect this camera to cost only US$800 if and when it starts shipping.

 

Not sure what you mean by "a Red camera thing."

 

 

3 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

This Z Cam 2 thing gets weirder every day let alone this thing.

The guys behind this camera seem very different from the Z-Cam crew.  Also, there is a huge difference in the way that the two cameras are apparently being developed:  Z-Cam is evidently starting from "scratch" with the E2 hardware, while Cinemartin seems to be starting mostly with already-developed hardware from another camera company (probably a significant advantage).

 

 

3 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I think this new PK4 has thrown a Monkey Wrench into all of these startups thinking they are the next Arri.

It is doubtful that the BMP4K had any initial influence on either Z-cam nor Cinemartin as both were apparently already working on their respective cameras when the BMP4K was first announced.  Also, not sure if Z-Cam can still be considered a "start-up."

 

 

3 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Hell just buy some camera that is proven and get on with it.

Again, it is likely that nobody will be considering purchasing this Cinemartin camera anytime soon -- it is WAY to early for that.

 

This is not a final product.

 

 

3 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

A old Red Mysterium X would be better than some of these goofball things.

As I recall, the first Red camera was fairly "goofball" -- long boot times, over-heating, joy-stick menu, phantom clips, etc. -- and that didn't stop folks from shooting blockbusters and commercials with it.

 

 

3 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

What can one of these cameras have over this new  PK4 that any normal person needs, or could even afford the media, computing power?

The main advantages that I see for such large-sensor 8K cameras are the ability to use lenses designed for a larger format and the boost in color depth that higher resolutions yield.

 

 

3 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Who even owns lenses that can resolve 8K? Who Pixar Studios, Disney Studios? It sure ain't that Nifty 50 Canon lens for 199 bucks.

A lot of lenses would work great with a large sensor.

 

In regards to "resolving" 8K, I don't think that the lens needs to sharp down to the individual pixel.  A lot of FF and MF lenses that worked with fine-grained film (such as Kodachrome 25 or Technical Pan) should work nicely with 8K.

 

 

27 minutes ago, BrooklynDan said:

Even if it does make it to market, it is the worst-designed camera body I've ever seen.

As I mentioned, it's possible that the proportions are geared around a main board that Cinemartin spec'd.  If so, they can probably split the board with a ribbon cable when (and if) they have a final product, which could make the proportions more sleek.

 

 

27 minutes ago, BrooklynDan said:

Holy fuck, who puts a screen on top?

Evidently, a lot of DSLR manufacturers and Z-cam

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22 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Z-Cam: "We have produced the most mundane and uninspiring footage that any company could ever possibly publish for promoting their cinema camera"

Cinemartin: "Hold my beer....."

OMG, well lol, sometimes you have such a way with words in summing it up!

15 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

A old Red Mysterium X would be better than some of these goofball things.

Rather shoot with a Sony PMW-F3 (sub $1K cameras!) than a RED ONE MX!

11 hours ago, tupp said:

As I recall, the first Red camera was fairly "goofball" -- long boot times, over-heating, joy-stick menu, phantom clips, etc. -- and that didn't stop folks from shooting blockbusters and commercials with it.

 


The competition was not as intense back then. 

 

12 hours ago, BrooklynDan said:

Holy fuck, who puts a screen on top?

A side screen for camera op or AC would make more sense? I guess a top screen is a compromise between those two because they can't choose which of those two sides to go with?!

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This is a really nice testament to how resolution really has gigantic diminishing returns when it comes to perceptual image quality. Manufacturers should be investing in things that actually matter such as color-depth, color-science and dynamic range. This footage looks like it was shot on a 2010 handycam, except with somehow worse color-science.

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1 hour ago, seanzzxx said:

This is a really nice testament to how resolution really has gigantic diminishing returns when it comes to perceptual image quality.

Not really.

 

In the first place, the development of this camera is in the beginning stages.  They achieved first light just five months ago, and, apparently, there are only two guys working on it.  This haphazard test footage is not meant to be a final demo of the camera  -- it's way too early for that.  These clips just show that the camera works and that some properties might have been improved.

 

Secondly, although I do not think that 8K is necessary nor desirable for 99.999% of filmmaking, no conclusions can be drawn from this footage.  A controlled, side-by-side test is the way to discern and advantages/disadvantages of one format/camera over another.

 

1 hour ago, seanzzxx said:

Manufacturers should be investing in things that actually matter such as color-depth, color-science and dynamic range.

Keep in mind that digital color depth (the first property that you mention) is primarily determined by two equally weighted factors -- resolution and bit depth.  In other words, resolution has the same influence on color depth as does bit depth.  The higher the resolution, the higher the color depth.  So, an 8K image has more color depth than a 4K image.

 

Of the three properties that you mention, dynamic range (capture dynamic range) is most important to me.  An unwanted camera-induced color tint can usually be fixed by merely white balancing or by moving a slider in grading software.

 

Not sure exactly what is meant by "color science."  It seems to be exceedingly subjective how each of us define that term and how we individually perceive desirable/undesirable color.

 

1 hour ago, seanzzxx said:

This footage looks like it was shot on a 2010 handycam, except with somehow worse color-science. 

Again, it's way too early to conclude anything about the image quality of this camera, and they don't have John Toll on staff to shoot their test clips.

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Hey guys, you are blind or what?! This test shows... incredible BOKEH ! And no one noticed... Kills all possible aliasing too! No extra charge either! Free and exclusive add-on. First camera ever in the world to produce such thing. Not even more need for fast glass anymore! : -P 

image.thumb.png.737ca7ae0c3ee98160a5ee97024084e1.png

: -D

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8 hours ago, tupp said:

In the first place, the development of this camera is in the beginning stages.  They achieved first light just five months ago, and, apparently, there are only two guys working on it. 


Which means we can expect to see the final shipping camera in the stores sometime in early 2030

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