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Sony a7 III discussion

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20 minutes ago, ajay said:

I agree. If Sony has overheating problems with 8-bit, 30p it's hard to believe they will be able to provide 10-bit anything without problems unless they go to a larger form factor with better heat sink ability.

True. But if you increase the 'form factor', keep the ibis, throw in a variable electronic nd filter and a flippy screen, all you end up with is an FS5 mkii rather than an A7siii....

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51 minutes ago, Robert Collins said:

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-A7-III-versus-Sony-A7R-III-versus-Sony-a9___1236_1187_1162

BTW the DXOmark numbers have been released on the A7iii. 

There are no surprises but they are impressive - they are well within spitting distance of the A7riii and the D850.

The question is where does this leave an A7siii?

I know absolutely nothing but I am pretty skeptical we are going to see one soon...

1) Just looking at the numbers there seems no real justification for a 12mp sensor for US$3,000 - the delta on the lowlight performance I think would simply be too low to make it worthwhile simply because the A7iii at US$2,000 is so good....

2) Of course, there is still room for internal 10 bit recording and/or say 4k/60 but I am not convinced given all the overheating problems that Sony (and actually pretty much everyone else has had) in recent years, that Sony can provide that with a FF sensor....

3) There is perhaps the potential to take the A9 sensor and its insanely good sensor readout of data to make a video cam with next to no rolling shutter but as we didnt see that with the A9, I kinda doubt it....

That really is remarkable.

Their new "basic" FF camera has currently the third highest low light rating in the database (only behind two medium format cameras).        It basically has a similar score for low light to the original A7s without all the restrictions and better good light image quality and the much higher pixel count.       

   Once you get to ISO 25600 and up, the A7s and A7sii might still be a fraction better but not enough to make all that much difference (and maybe only a little better DR with the other measures being pretty much identical).

The comparison tools certainly show the A7iii to be better generally.

I have been wondering if there really IS going to be an A7siii and this has me no wiser but if there IS, it will be beyond my wildest dreams for low light.

 

Now, I guess the best I can hope for is a second hand A7iii in a year or two (or win the lottery).

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3 hours ago, noone said:

 

I have been wondering if there really IS going to be an A7siii and this has me no wiser but if there IS, it will be beyond my wildest dreams for low light.

 

Now, I guess the best I can hope for is a second hand A7iii in a year or two (or win the lottery).

FWIW, I received a questionnaire from Sony, as an A7s ii owner, last week on the features I would like to see added to the A7s ii (along with questions on what I used the camera for etc.). This would suggest that they are at least considering a successor, but it would seem a long way off. I also received a similar questionnaire on the FS5 recently, another camera due for an upgrade.

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There is something to be said about the A7III that goes beyond specs – I own the A7III and I own the A7rIII and I used to own the GH5 and after som extensive testing I must say the A7III is lacking. It's a fine camera, certainly at the price point. Small but by no means insignificant things make it less useful to me however. For starters the 4K full frame may be very detailed and sharp, but is plagued by a weird shimmer and a subtle stuttering when moving the camera and it seems to me it has more moiré than the A7RIII, barcode artifacts notwithstanding. I also find that the pixel binned 4K full frame readout from the A7rIII is more pleasant to the eyes and I think it has to do with better motion cadence, less rolling shutter and more efficient IBIS (that 0.5 step makes a big difference in real world usage without stabilized lenses). Not saying the A7III is not a good video camera, but I do prefer the image produced by the rIII. It would be interesting to hear if someone agrees/disagrees. I know the camera isn't available yet in the US, but here in Sweden and the rest of Europe it's been in stores for some time now.

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20 minutes ago, Renaud said:

How do you compare the video autofocus between the 7III and the rIII ? 

I see no difference other than that the face recognition feels more solid in the rIII, as long as the face don't stray to far to the edges of the frame.

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i can't compare with the RIII but i haven't really noticed any particular cadence issues or significant rolling shutter on our copy. haven't really worked with the raw footage yet though.

we did just get in some Batis lens and boy the IQ when paired with the A73 is something special. starting to see the potential of this new sensor..

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1 hour ago, Django said:

i can't compare with the RIII but i haven't really noticed any particular cadence issues or significant rolling shutter on our copy. haven't really worked with the raw footage yet though.

we did just get in some Batis lens and boy the IQ when paired with the A73 is something special. starting to see the potential of this new sensor..

Your Batis lenses have OSS ? Maybe the combination of both the IBIS and OSS reduces the stuttering and the "bad" motion cadence. 

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After many test, I decided to keep the GH4 along with the A7iii.
I need something really reliable, maybe with less creativity possibilities, but which will never let me down in difficult situation.

As much I like the A7iii, I can't be sure that if I have some shoots to do outside at 35°, it will be usable. Also, the 4k50p is very helping when you need slowmotion or agressive stab.

Keeping both is expensive, but now I feel good about any work to come.

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15 minutes ago, Beritar said:

Your Batis lenses have OSS ? Maybe the combination of both the IBIS and OSS reduces the stuttering and the "bad" motion cadence. 

That has been my experience when comparing my Batis 85 to my GM 85 on the A7riii for video.

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On 2018. 03. 21. at 7:00 PM, Trek of Joy said:

I believe the only solution is what's in the previously posted video - change the date to force the pixel remapping in order to do it manually. To be fair, its only happened once on each body I've owned. As to the a7III, I can't speak to anything other than the way it looks on videos I've seen since the camera isn't available in the US yet.

chris

The problem surfaced again in the newest video of the guy who posted the fix, and he told me the fix was unfortunately temporary, he's thinking about sending his A7III back.

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Returned the overhyped piece of shit that is the A7III. So happy with the rIII. Feels more solid all around as well. Don’t get the A7III unless the problems are addressed properly is my advice.

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5 hours ago, Simon Young said:

Returned the overhyped piece of shit that is the A7III. So happy with the rIII. Feels more solid all around as well. Don’t get the A7III unless the problems are addressed properly is my advice.

Are you just having a rant or is there some specific reasons for your decision. rIII is a good bit more expensive.

 

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On 27/03/2018 at 3:24 AM, Robert Collins said:

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-A7-III-versus-Sony-A7R-III-versus-Sony-a9___1236_1187_1162

BTW the DXOmark numbers have been released on the A7iii. 

There are no surprises but they are impressive - they are well within spitting distance of the A7riii and the D850.

The question is where does this leave an A7siii?

I know absolutely nothing but I am pretty skeptical we are going to see one soon...

1) Just looking at the numbers there seems no real justification for a 12mp sensor for US$3,000 - the delta on the lowlight performance I think would simply be too low to make it worthwhile simply because the A7iii at US$2,000 is so good....

2) Of course, there is still room for internal 10 bit recording and/or say 4k/60 but I am not convinced given all the overheating problems that Sony (and actually pretty much everyone else has had) in recent years, that Sony can provide that with a FF sensor....

3) There is perhaps the potential to take the A9 sensor and its insanely good sensor readout of data to make a video cam with next to no rolling shutter but as we didnt see that with the A9, I kinda doubt it....

Either Sony releases a comparable camera form factor that delivers UHD at 60p or they have conceded that they can't compete with the GH5.

Doubt that they will make such a concession.

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23 minutes ago, spinkscapes said:

Either Sony releases a comparable camera form factor that delivers UHD at 60p or they have conceded that they can't compete with the GH5.

Doubt that they will make such a concession.

I am not sure that is the right way of looking at it.

Sony is dealing with a sensor 4x the size of M43. That brings advantages in terms, of noise, DR and Dof.

At the same time it likely means that they cant match M43/GH5 in the same form factor in terms of fps, bit depth and bit output for video.

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49 minutes ago, Robert Collins said:

Sony is dealing with a sensor 4x the size of M43. That brings advantages in terms, of noise, DR and Dof.

 

Yeah but with the GH5s Panasonic has narrowed the gap overnight from 4x on low light and maybe DR. And with the oversized sensor in it, and a Speedbooster on it, the gap is pretty small now DoF wise. I would be worried if I was Sony on the A7s mk III, and I am a big Sony fan.

I think Sony Has to have 10 bit and 4k 60p or why bother, and people are probably right, it is going to take a bigger body to do it. They have their tit in the ringer as they say with it. The A7 mk III has pushed them further than they probably wanted. But the threat of a Nikon Canon Mirrorless had to be a factor. I just don't think they expected the GH5s. Well maybe they did IF they made the sensor for it. I guess we will find out sooner than later what they will bring to the table..

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52 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah but with the GH5s Panasonic has narrowed the gap overnight from 4x on low light and maybe DR. And with the oversized sensor in it, and a Speedbooster on it, the gap is pretty small now DoF wise. I would be worried if I was Sony on the A7s mk III, and I am a big Sony fan.

I think Sony Has to have 10 bit and 4k 60p or why bother, and people are probably right, it is going to take a bigger body to do it. They have their tit in the ringer as they say with it. The A7 mk III has pushed them further than they probably wanted. But the threat of a Nikon Canon Mirrorless had to be a factor. I just don't think they expected the GH5s. Well maybe they did IF they made the sensor for it. I guess we will find out sooner than later what they will bring to the table..

I think we are on the same page here. I really wish Sony would be more transparent about their plans for the A7siii. I am in the market for another A7xiii body but want to wait to see if I should get the A7siii. I suspect others are in a similar position. Obviously telling people your plans can harm existing sales but I doubt anyone is really buying a new A7sii at this stage.

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Out of likes. Yeah I am not in the market, but I think what they come out with will effect Sony A7 sales for years to come with the A7s mk III. It is going to have to be damn special, almost ground breaking to be honest, to hurt the GH5, GH5s, and heck even the Fuji X-H1. All 3 have made a hell of an impact on the lower end video community. The Olympus EM1 mk II has just not taken off in the video world. No real surprise, but the Fuji to me is.

Sony has their hands full here, no doubt about that. They hit a home run with the A7 mk III, but they need to hit a grand slam with the A7s mk III. :grimace:

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I highly doubt Sony will go 10-bit with A7S3. That would outperform the FS5. And they aren't going to redesign the A7 mark III body just for the S model.

My guess is a new sub-24MP BSI sensor with simply even better low-light capability. Maybe something like an electronic ND. 4K60p.

And hopefully a better codec than the aging 100mb XAVS-S (XAVC-L or XAVC-I).

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8 minutes ago, Django said:

I highly doubt Sony will go 10-bit with A7S3. That would outperform the FS5. And they aren't going to redesign the A7 mark III body just for the S model.

My guess is a new sub-24MP BSI sensor with simply even better low-light capability. Maybe something like an electronic ND. 4K60p.

And hopefully a better codec than the aging 100mb XAVS-S (XAVC-L or XAVC-I).

But if an a7s III had electronic ND filters and 4K 60p, wouldn’t it also be competing with the FS5?

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