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GH5 to Alexa Conversion

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@Sage I've been looking at some videos lately showing the benefits of HLG on the newer Sony full frame cameras, and the colours, particularly on skin, look fantastic with very smooth gradation. Have you had time to take a closer look at HLG on the GH5 and do you still think V-Log is better?

I haven't seen many videos with impressive colour shot on the GH5 in HLG, but I wonder if it has some untapped potential. Apart from GHa, V-Log can have a slightly unnatural look to it compared to HLG footage.

 

I recently shot a couple of run and gun projects on Cinelike-D and am playing with your conversion to v-log, and it takes a bit of work to get it looking good due to my exposure being a bit consistent, but I love what it does to skin tones.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
1 hour ago, Sage said:

In post, a PRE matching the format of the footage (& NLE) is first applied

Does one need to use PRE if DNxHD is use

1 hour ago, Sage said:

Then the conversion is applied, followed by the grade/correction for under/over exposure

Do you need to put a new serial (Resolve) and then apply exposure correction or you do it on the same node where you apply conversion?

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On 10/10/2018 at 10:04 AM, austinchimp said:

@Sage I've been looking at some videos lately showing the benefits of HLG on the newer Sony full frame cameras, and the colours, particularly on skin, look fantastic with very smooth gradation. Have you had time to take a closer look at HLG on the GH5 and do you still think V-Log is better?

I haven't seen many videos with impressive colour shot on the GH5 in HLG, but I wonder if it has some untapped potential. Apart from GHa, V-Log can have a slightly unnatural look to it compared to HLG footage.

I recently shot a couple of run and gun projects on Cinelike-D and am playing with your conversion to v-log, and it takes a bit of work to get it looking good due to my exposure being a bit consistent, but I love what it does to skin tones.

Yes, VLog is optimal, as the conversion to LogC was done directly for it; the gap for the others will be closing shortly. The data distribution will be a bit different, but the visual result the same* (one could think of the NLEs' color engines as being 32-bit floating point pass-throughs for the raw data distribution of the originating format)

On 10/10/2018 at 11:05 AM, mirekti said:

Does one need to use PRE if DNxHD is use

Do you need to put a new serial (Resolve) and then apply exposure correction or you do it on the same node where you apply conversion?

Yes, if its VLog in DNX (hides the unique flagging of VLog L for correct levels) it would need the ProRes PRE. Mezzanine formats (ProRes/DNX) are best avoided at the moment in Premiere, as PPro distorts the color space (ProRes confirmed). All-I achieves the same end in camera, in the case of the GH5

A new node, after the conversion node, for exp correction for sure (distinct routing)

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33 minutes ago, Sage said:

Yes, if its VLog in DNX (hides the unique flagging of VLog L for correct levels) it would need the ProRes PRE

Ok, thanks, I just wanted to make sure there is no need for DNxHD PRE i.e. if one uses ProRes or DNxHD the same ProRes PRE needs to be applied.

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@Sage I'm ready to buy but I'm not sure which WB to get.  I shoot in all conditions and use auto-WB.  I'm comfortable adjusting WB in Resolve if it's not quite right and I only do non-professional work so isn't completely critical.  Does it matter which version I get?

 

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@kye I bought both and love to use them but I use the Daylight LUT more since I'm shooting more during the day plus the colors are not too orange in white light during the night. Have shot few scenes anything under Tungsten lighting though so your preference may vary. Also want to hear from @Sage for this

 

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On 10/12/2018 at 12:06 PM, Sage said:

Yes, if its VLog in DNX (hides the unique flagging of VLog L for correct levels) it would need the ProRes PRE. Mezzanine formats (ProRes/DNX) are best avoided at the moment in Premiere, as PPro distorts the color space (ProRes confirmed).

Glad I read this page today, didn't know about the ProRes PRE with DNX, thanks for the heads up. I just did a 4K 10bit 60p test in DNxHR HQX (with my new Ninja V)! Definitely getting different results between software. Premiere has more of a green cast. You can get closer to Resolve's output in Premiere by simply decreasing the temp by 1.0 and increasing the tint by 1.0, in this test anyway. Still not the same, but hard to see with the eye after tweaking. 

Side note, loving the little Ninja V. Using the full 3D LUT for monitoring is awesome!

vlog.jpg

resolve.jpg

premiere.jpg

resolvevspremiere.gif

resolvevspremieretint.gif

ninja.jpg

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@katlis Thanks so much for looking into this! Indeed, Premiere has completely arbitrary and distinct color renderings of every different format. To completely correct for it, I'll have to do new conversions separately for ProRes and DNX (soon as I've got the time)

For the time being, I recommend either using Resolve for ProRes/DNX, or shooting All-I if you use Premiere. And All-I is fantastic (quite similar in spirit to ProRes/DNX)

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35 minutes ago, katlis said:

Glad I read this page today, didn't know about the ProRes PRE with DNX, thanks for the heads up. I just did a 4K 10bit 60p test in DNxHR HQX (with my new Ninja V)! Definitely getting different results between software. Premiere has more of a green cast. You can get closer to Resolve's output in Premiere by simply decreasing the temp by 1.0 and increasing the tint by 1.0, in this test anyway. Still not the same, but hard to see with the eye after tweaking. 

Side note, loving the little Ninja V. Using the full 3D LUT for monitoring is awesome!

vlog.jpg

resolve.jpg

premiere.jpg

resolvevspremiere.gif

resolvevspremieretint.gif

ninja.jpg

Wow yeah I notice the green cast in Premiere. This confirms my bias against premiere as an NLE since I also had issues after rendering in Premiere (because desaturated). I think it's officially time to move to Resolve..

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14 hours ago, will_fowkes said:

I made another video using the LUT again @Sage, this time using the LUT at 100 strength.

I'm planning on making the move to Resolve soon, to have more control over my grade. I assume the LUT can be used in Resolve as well?

https://youtu.be/6UxUGpJvRQs

Love it man; also, I need to get this update out to you

It can be used in Resolve, without the Vlog PRE needed in Premiere (walkthrough in the next Pdf)

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8 hours ago, Sage said:

It can be used in Resolve, without the Vlog PRE needed in Premiere (walkthrough in the next Pdf)

Oh, I might have missed the point here. Does this mean PRE is only to be used with Premiere and in Resolve it is not needed no matter the codec used?

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1 hour ago, mirekti said:

Oh, I might have missed the point here. Does this mean PRE is only to be used with Premiere and in Resolve it is not needed no matter the codec used?

No PRE is needed for raw VLog in Resolve

A PRE is needed in Resolve for: HLG, Cine-D, and VLog wrapped in ProRes/DNX (or for wrapped VLog, 'data levels' can be set to Full/Data for the clip)

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@Sage In a previous post, someone asked

 

Quote

Is the LogC curve similar to BMDFilm? A few of the samples remind me more of Ursa footage.

and you answered 

Quote

 Yes! (More on this later this year) Its decidedly closer than GH5 V-Log

Is there any information about this yet? 

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@Sage Does your LUT change only color or it also affects contrast? For example if I put a Tiffen Pro Mist filter in front of my lens would it mess it up? I was thinking of using a regular one for daylight and warming one for shade and keep the white balance in camera on daylight all the time. Does this make any sense?

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