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Sony A7R III announced with 4K HDR


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The official review is live! I had fun with this. I'm trying something new...  

No 10bit and oh my god, we're still at a 100Mbps bitrate for 24p/30p 4K?!?!  Goddamn Sony.. throw us a bone for video here.

If Sony only had 64 couolrs would 58 of them be different shades of green/yellow? 

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1 hour ago, maxotics said:

I really, seriously, for the life of me, don't get it.  Canon maybe...Sony crippling their cameras?  I can't see any real world difference between 10bit and 8bit in an 8bit space.  I've tried.  Please don't get angry with me, but for me 10bit is a sham.  I don't look at the camera makers as giving me a better image, I look at them as marketing hokum.  Whatever banding 10bit may eliminate in a clear blue sky is smoothed over by the time the image reaches the viewer, in the real world.  

The achilles heal of these cameras, vs cinema cameras, is highlight roll-off. 

So the question to me, is what would you rather have, HDR or a 10bit CODEC?  Banding in a sky, shadows gone noisey -- I can deal with that.  A face with a white blotch on it, no.  It's horrible! For me, it's F-this camera time :)

10bit doesn't fix it because 10bit has nothing to do with dynamic range.  Sure, you can shoot in S-LOG, but now you're sacrificing color detail.  HDR, seems to me, might solve that problem.  So why should Sony put out 10bit over HDR?  It seems to me HDR is the real INNOVATION here (probably a type of dual ISO).  If it works well, it can make a big real-world difference.   

Yet, I believe it will also be marketing hokum!  It's probably what they call 10bit now ;)  Still, we need to see what the camera will do.  

So by the same logic 15 stops of DR (claimed) and 14bit image data is a sham and marketing hokum for the stills photographer?

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Morning boys!

Most important future of camera is colour science, motion cadence and dynamic range.

Lets say that this Sanyo has good DR but so what if the colours in 8bits look like plastic zombie land. No thanks jeff! Why would someone buy this over used 1DC is beyond me. 

Best affordable choices are, 5d mk3 (really a legendary classic with 14 bit vista-fuarking-vision size sensor and best colour science), 1DC (unbeatable 4k image, best body ever) and LEICA SL which used has fallen under 5K. Honorary mentions go to Fuji xpro2. Fuji is the only camera maker apart of LEICA and Canon that has charisma and character.

GH5 has great features but the sensor size is a joke sorry, footage looks like iphone 7 video srs, but I guess it's alright to do the job for some. Buying the speedboosters and adapting other lenses is let's face it cumbersome and ridiculous and no one should to invest in lenses with electronics (like native mft). 

Sony, A6500 A7smk2 etc, oh boy, worst ergonomics, HORRIBLE colours (yes, they are never quite right), bad looking high iso srs. From sony F35 and f55 is noyce. 

Nikon, oh boy d850 maybe does look good on paper, but they even don't make they own sensor, not to mention the goofy buttons and ergonomics, and modern Nikon lenses look crap. Nikkor did really well with AIS lenses but that's it

If you have more money just get the new jooouicy C200 or used c500, next step is ARRI AMIRA. REDs have amazing specs but that digital look is not nice, ARRI buldozers over RED sorry. 

I think that best possible look can be achived with ALEXA (or believe it or not with 5Dmk3 RAW) with old Cooks or vintage Panavision Anamorphics das it.

Sony comes and goes with new A7xx and A6xxx, ultimately there are boring and unimaginative, and how is it possible to make camera with (claimed) 15 stops of DR and such disgusting colours and then put it in 8 bit. 

Just buy Canon or Leica srs

 

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6 minutes ago, satoshi said:

Morning boys!

Most important future of camera is colour science, motion cadence and dynamic range.

Lets say that this Sanyo has good DR but so what if the colours in 8bits look like plastic zombie land. No thanks jeff! Why would someone buy this over used 1DC is beyond me. 

Best affordable choices are, 5d mk3 (really a legendary classic with 14 bit vista-fuarking-vision size sensor and best colour science), 1DC (unbeatable 4k image, best body ever) and LEICA SL which used has fallen under 5K. Honorary mentions go to Fuji xpro2. Fuji is the only camera maker apart of LEICA and Canon that has charisma and character.

GH5 has great features but the sensor size is a joke sorry, footage looks like iphone 7 video srs, but I guess it's alright to do the job for some. Buying the speedboosters and adapting other lenses is let's face it cumbersome and ridiculous and no one should to invest in lenses with electronics (like native mft). 

Sony, A6500 A7smk2 etc, oh boy, worst ergonomics, HORRIBLE colours (yes, they are never quite right), bad looking high iso srs. From sony F35 and f55 is noyce. 

Nikon, oh boy d850 maybe does look good on paper, but they even don't make they own sensor, not to mention the goofy buttons and ergonomics, and modern Nikon lenses look crap. Nikkor did really well with AIS lenses but that's it

If you have more money just get the new jooouicy C200 or used c500, next step is ARRI AMIRA. REDs have amazing specs but that digital look is not nice, ARRI buldozers over RED sorry. 

I think that best possible look can be achived with ALEXA (or believe it or not with 5Dmk3 RAW) with old Cooks or vintage Panavision Anamorphics das it.

Sony comes and goes with new A7xx and A6xxx, ultimately there are boring and unimaginative, and how is it possible to make camera with (claimed) 15 stops of DR and such disgusting colours and then put it in 8 bit. 

Just buy Canon or Leica srs

 

Canon RAW has mediocre DR.......

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45 minutes ago, cantsin said:

This video clearly shows the difference:

 

This is an issue with Panasonic’s Log profile and the only reason the GH5 got 10bit video. VLog with the GH4 was a nightmare but to compete with Sony, and even Canon to some extent, Panasonic needed a Log profile, so they used tech from their cinema division in the GH5.

Unfortunately, now every videographer in the world, despite their discipline or skill level, believes if they don’t get 10bit color, they’re getting ripped off.

Panasonic jumped the gun by one or two product cycles and that is good for GH5 owners, but the other manufacturers shouldn’t be held liable for Panasonic’s inability to get a Log profile that worked within an 8bit space.

And at this point, for the money, if I wanted more than 8bit color, I’d go with a BM camera for the better codec and DR or a 5D3 with ML Raw for 14bit and a good color science... which is one of the reasons I did. And I’d definitely choose higher DR 8bit over 10bit.

And the only reason I mention it is because there is this misconception that Panasonic gave the consumer 10bit color out of the kindness of their heart because they care about videographers and low budget indie filmmakers, yet Canon and Sony are heartless corporations that only care about their bottom line... they all only care about their bottom line and a Log profile was needed in the GH series to help theirs.

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I do not see any improvement in ergonomics (except a joystick..I guess the S body will be exactly the same), in the official improvement table there is a lot of "great improvement"(really, Sony?!), "better quality" and the such, there are some very good hard numbers though (10fps instead of 5fps). Also, double the battery, doesn't mean double the working time, but previous generation's battery life was a joke, anything would have been an improvement. The 2 SD slots are a great addition too.

My opinion is that this camera is a lot better than the previous generation, and a lot of photographers will be happy about it, but it seems like it is a A7rmkII and a half, not a III.

I will be waiting for the S now, which will be much more video centric, but I am not too optimistic, the Sony body is just terrible, they addressed a couple of important stuff (battery, double SD slot) but not much else (by the way, real HDR standards are 10 bit, doubt that the camera can do 4K 10 bit internal without overheating). Of course we have to wait.

If CanoNikon full frame mirrorless are as good as we hope them to be, expect a Sony A7rIV, or A8r sooner than later, this generation ain't the absolute killer we were expecting them to be. While GH5 is eating them their S's sales..Of course maybe CanoNikon are too late to the game. We'll see. Now, where is this FS5mkII?!

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4 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

It is the same body as A9, so slightly larger than A7rII with a deeper grip. 

Also the movie recording button is finally at a usable position. 

 

"The camera features essentially the same body as the a7R II" from DPR release article. Where did you read that is an A9 body?

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8 hours ago, maxotics said:

The biggest difference between these cameras and cinema cameras is battery life and storage.  So now the A7R will last twice as long?  It will have a USB port that can transfer 4K video as fast as a card reader?  It has dual recording slots, FTP over wireless, proxy recording? 10fps silent mode shooting.  If this camera camera out a few years ago the title of the post would be "Sony just killed the Canon C100" :) 

 

Sony already killed the C100 (& C300!) years ago. With their FS5 & a7S mk1/mk2 releases.

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2 hours ago, cantsin said:

This video clearly shows the difference:

Thanks for posting video, hadn't seen it!  However, the difference between 10bit and 8bit is not noticable to me unless I carefully look for it where there are solid colors, and then it is very minor. (Isn't it you who said compression causes more banding and artifacts than anything else?  I agree when it comes to this.)  The reason 4:2:0 works in the first place is we just aren't that sensitive to color shift in a moving image.  Anyway, I feel the video supports what I'm saying.  I can't see a significant difference.

Also, these kinds of videos make me want to go into a full-blown RANT! :)  "Before color grading" is the worst affectation in all of video land.  There is NO image before color grading!  All images are arbitrary conversions of data into something our equipment can display.  No data "color" is naturally unsaturated or saturated.  There is no perfect pitch in silicon CFA digital imaging, it's all RELATIVE PITCH.  

Yes, RAW data, that spans 4 trillion colors (or shades) of DR say, which is beyond the gamut of our displays, cannot easily be displayed in any agreed on saturation in an 8bit gamut.   It' has become accepted practice to show RAW as unsaturated.  Okay.  But to take any 8bit video, which is what the above is, and show it grayed out, then "color graded" shows differences that are NOT really in the data to begin with.   

   

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4 hours ago, Germy1979 said:

This isn’t Gearslutz.  You don’t need to be a condescending dick on the internet.  Bitching about  S-log in an 8-bit  codec isn’t being ungrateful, it’s questioning innovation and crippling to protect your $10,000 cameras when  the GH5 offers 10-bit for $2000.  

Wonder if we'll see any over the top "protecting" from Panasonic with their G90/GH5 now they have their entry level cinema camera coming out soon: Panasonic EVA1

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The HDMI output to an external recorder from the Sony is way better than the internal codec as you can confidently use S-LOG and not have problems with banding even though it's 'only' 8bit. With a claimed better processor it's puzzling that they haven't given the MK3 a better internal codec along the lines of 150mbs 4.2.2

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1 minute ago, IronFilm said:

C100mk2 and FS5 were pretty close in price.

Are you trying to embarrass me here ;)  I have the C100 mk1 (though with DPAF).  However, I am blown away by what this camera can do.  It just GETS SH_T DONE!  And the image is so sweet.  It really puts these DSLRs/Mirrorless cameras into perspective.  For all the features of the A7RIII, I bet most people, in a blind test, will see the C100's quality as good as the A7RIII, and with no fuss.  The only reason I can see wanting the A7R3 over what I have is for the photography stuff.  Did I mention I'm in love with my C100? :)

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