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Andrew Reid

Canon C200 and Panasonic rival camera to fight it out at CineGear Expo

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3 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

Hope for Panasonic that is not the case. Why on earth would you get this over a UMP.

I'm not sure why...I have a few projects in developement...although I would personally use the Varicam LT and a DP for the first, if I was making an Indy film for say $500,000, would I risk the BMD camera, or would I use a camera made by a company the size of Panasonic....personally I love the image their cameras produce...the ergonomics and the incredible reliability of their cams....I've owned 6 and none of them ever skipped a beat...if my film was at stake, that's what I would consider...not whether this camera has AF or it's within $2,000 of an UM...who cares, if the camera fails, and your project collapses...and you're struggling with a small company to back you up...but of course...that's me...and that's what would be important to me...your needs and choices are different...so are your considerations...but I don't think if Panasonic produced a simple robust Cine camera, for the purposes of say shooting low budget projects, people will reject it..for the UM...people who love BMD will go that way regardless as will people who love Panasonic with the Panny...whether 6000 or 10,000...one buys a camera in this price range, because you're using it to shoot commercials or films or tv, but it's already inside the category, of having to earn money for you...otherwise the dslr style cameras are just fine for day to day, or professional work, depending on what clients require...and within most people's budget.

 

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Hope for Panasonic that is not the case. Why on earth would you get this over a UMP.

I'm not in the industry, but I'd hazard a guess that if you're a TV station or an educational institution or any of many other types of organisation looking to buy 50 or 100 cams you'd always go Canon, Sony or Panasonic and avoid BMD like the plague (what? You buy 50 cams and have to send 25 back for replacement?). Likewise, if you're doing anything where serious money is involved at the kind of level at which this new camera is aimed you would (if you have any sense) go for the platform that offers robust, quality products for which replacements are available within 12 hours tops. BMD seem to make great cameras, with lovely imagery - but they're just nowhere near the QC and ubiquity of supply necessary when deadlines have to be met and crews standing around waiting for stuff can't be afforded.

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13 hours ago, Tim Sewell said:

I'm not in the industry, but I'd hazard a guess that if you're a TV station or an educational institution or any of many other types of organisation looking to buy 50 or 100 cams you'd always go Canon, Sony or Panasonic and avoid BMD like the plague (what? You buy 50 cams and have to send 25 back for replacement?). Likewise, if you're doing anything where serious money is involved at the kind of level at which this new camera is aimed you would (if you have any sense) go for the platform that offers robust, quality products for which replacements are available within 12 hours tops. BMD seem to make great cameras, with lovely imagery - but they're just nowhere near the QC and ubiquity of supply necessary when deadlines have to be met and crews standing around waiting for stuff can't be afforded.

Yeah when you have a lot at stack, look at grip hire, traffic management, catering, places availability etc, that a lot of stuff to manage.

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36 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

Yeah when you have a lot at stack, look at grip hire, traffic management, catering, places availability etc, that a lot of stuff to manage.

Yes...Arri's creamy image is not the only reason why so many get used in feature films...that they are built like tanks and keep working day in and day out, is also part of that equation...if you put a professional camera dept on Dslr style cameras on a properly designed and lit set with wardrobe and all the bells and whistles and a DP who hardly operates...a first and 2nd and depending on the size of the shoot even a 3rd AC...in other words the same treatment and expert crew the Arri gets, be the Dslr a Canon or Sony or Panasonic, and then properly treated in post and by a colorist, the results would be very close...what you get with the Arris is zero downtime...a big part of the choice in that camera goes beyond image. It's about the cost and how an unreliable or sufficiently robust camera can make or break a shoot.

 

@Tim Sewell Excellent point about bulk buys for TV stations or learning instutions...one can probably add rental houses to that equation too...and more importantly...the choices DP's make re what cameras to use when shooting with a $100,000 a day crew...the numbers tend to radically alter the choice.

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3 hours ago, Fritz Pierre said:

Yes...Arri's creamy image is not the only reason why so many get used in feature films...that they are built like tanks and keep working day in and day out, is also part of that equation...if you put a professional camera dept on Dslr style cameras on a properly designed and lit set with wardrobe and all the bells and whistles and a DP who hardly operates...a first and 2nd and depending on the size of the shoot even a 3rd AC...in other words the same treatment and expert crew the Arri gets, be the Dslr a Canon or Sony or Panasonic, and then properly treated in post and by a colorist, the results would be very close...what you get with the Arris is zero downtime...a big part of the choice in that camera goes beyond image. It's about the cost and how an unreliable or sufficiently robust camera can make or break a shoot.

 

@Tim Sewell Excellent point about bulk buys for TV stations or learning instutions...one can probably add rental houses to that equation too...and more importantly...the choices DP's make re what cameras to use when shooting with a $100,000 a day crew...the numbers tend to radically alter the choice.

Or possibly if a DSLR had 15 stops of DR with filmlike highlight rolloff... plus everything else you listed...

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1 hour ago, mercer said:

Or possibly if a DSLR had 15 stops of DR with filmlike highlight rolloff... plus everything else you listed...

Agreed...but one of the benefits of a crew is you control the DR of the scene with lights...the first RED had at least 2 to 2.5 stops less DR than the GH5, and I don't know the DR on The 5D but I presume it's at least a stop North of the GH5...maybe more?...but when you look at what Fincher did with the first RED...he and Soderburgh starting using them immediately, one sees the difference. Of course when you have no or a very low budget every extra stop of DR goes towards helping you get a shot that you'd miss without it...when a top notch DP and his Gaffer starts truly painting with light though, the difference is amazing...

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On 5/25/2017 at 7:21 PM, Fritz Pierre said:

the first RED had at least 2 to 2.5 stops less DR than the GH5, and I don't know the DR on The 5D but I presume it's at least a stop North of the GH5...maybe more?

Yeah, but the RED and even the 5d have much prettier highlights. The gh5 clips hard. This makes a huge difference when comparing the range of an image. 

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22 hours ago, BenEricson said:

Yeah, but the RED and even the 5d have much prettier highlights. The gh5 clips hard. This makes a huge difference when comparing the range of an image. 

And here I thought content and editing were the priority. I never realized the difference a 1/4 stop of highlight rolloff could make. :( Man am I naive.

The Social Network would've been shit if it was captured on the GH5.

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21 hours ago, andrgl said:

And here I thought content and editing were the priority. I never realized the difference a 1/4 stop of highlight rolloff could make. :( Man am I naive.

The Social Network would've been shit if it was captured on the GH5.

Most of the people here do paid work, commercial, corporate, doc work. If you have a paid shoot tomorrow with a small crew and you're forced to blow a window or some clouds, you'll want the highlight roll off to be clean and smooth, not budget dslr looking... 

The Gh5 is great but that is certainly a very noticeable weakness. A lot of little differences add up to a big difference. 

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23 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Wow thats low, definitely thought it would be higher.

Yeah, should be able to upgrade our companies 2 c100mkii to this... with company money haha

 

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