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Shield3

1dx II vs a7r2 - Dave Dugdale responds

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I posted a comment in a Dave Dougdale video and he actually took the time to create a new video to respond to my comment and show me what he was seeing.

What do you guys think?  Not sure if his shot was out of focus, was using a lens that wasn't sharp wide open, or had the sharpness/detail slider down to 0 or what.  I'm seeing very good detail in 4k on my 1dx II. 

Shawn

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

I'm in no way an expert but totally impartial to Canon vs Sony, but the 1DX II image seems more out of focus than having an issue with lack of resolution.

I'll admit I have no idea why I feel that way. Maybe it's because the 1DX II seems really soft for a 4K image that hasn't been magnified by that much.

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I don't see anything sharp in the Canon clip. If it was a focus issue there would surely be one part of the clip that was sharp, presuming he didn't shoot at F11, but the whole image is uniformly soft from the back of his hair through the star and to the large baubles at the front. It is as if there was something between the lens front element and the sensor causing a fog.

As for the A7rii, you can cut yourself on it.

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Hey Shawn, the 1DX II 4K is soft. It's ok, it looks great! Even the GH4 4K has more detail, however the 1DX II has much better color control and the image looks more organic. To get full detail 4K we need an 8K sensor and good downsampling to prevent aliasing (Nyquist)...

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Wow, the difference in details is as big as the difference in colour! I'd still take canon's image as I think colour is more important than most things and it seems that by the time sony's footage is matched to canon all the grading latitude is gone. I wonder when Andrew makes his part 2 review of the 1DX II. He might have a lot more to add...

@jcs: couldn't the lack of details be due to an AA filter rather than a downsampling algo/sensor?

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There are other cameras that render excellent skin tones without any grading and are sharp as a tack as well. Hint: it costs 1/2 the price of the a7R II body. I also edit 4K on a 2013 MBPr with only Core i7 2.0 Ghz, 8GB RAM and a non-dedicated graphics card no problem.

@Shield3 Hope you don't mind, but I corrected the spelling of Dave's name in the topic line. :) 

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7 hours ago, Shield3 said:

I posted a comment in a Dave Dougdale video and he actually took the time to create a new video to respond to my comment and show me what he was seeing.

What do you guys think?  Not sure if his shot was out of focus, was using a lens that wasn't sharp wide open, or had the sharpness/detail slider down to 0 or what.  I'm seeing very good detail in 4k on my 1dx II. 

Shawn

Hi Shawn. Could you share some clips shot with your Canon without any sharpening added? If they look sharp to you, I wouldn't worry about Dave Dugdale's results.

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1 hour ago, Antonis said:

I think that video is correct.
The 1DC was also less sharp when directly compared to a GH4 or NX1 back in the day.
Of course we can argue endlessly about which image is better, the (over) sharp GH4/NX1 image or the softer image of the 1DC.

 

The NX1 downsamples from 6.5k (full sensor readout) hence I wouldn't call it "over sharp". It's simply as sharp as it should be coming from that high res. It's the only hybrid camera doing this from such a high res, AFAIK.

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2 hours ago, jonpais said:

There are other cameras that render excellent skin tones without any grading and are sharp as a tack as well. Hint: it costs 1/2 the price of the a7R II body. I also edit 4K on a 2013 MBPr with only Core i7 2.0 Ghz, 8GB RAM and a non-dedicated graphics card no problem.

@Shield3 Hope you don't mind, but I corrected the spelling of Dave's name in the topic line. :) 

Yeah, very true, but then they have other compromises. There is no perfect camera ;).

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39 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

1D X Mark II is a bit softer out of the box, as it doesn't have any digital sharpening in-camera when it is turned all the way down.

That's a good point. I've checked it and JPEGs are indeed sharpened on A7RII even when sharpening is disabled according to some tests. These kind of practices really pi* me off. That's why I don't like Sony's approach. I think it's bad. Deliver on paper, people buy based on specs, disappoint later. That will force everyone to lower quality, IMHO. It's taking away sales from companies with higher standards (one example is overheating) and companies that don't cheat (still sharpening when it's clearly disabled in camera is cheating, isn't it?). 

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Comparing NX1, A7R2 and 1DXMkII... 

I rank them as follows: 

Canon... Sony... Samsung.

They are all great camera, but I prefer low light on the Canon. The noise is more organic. The Sony rules for resolution. The Samsung had the best UI. 

Video performance: the Sony always felt a bit videoish to me. Regardless what processing I would do. The image was also more fragile than the Canon in post. The NX1 seemed to lack DR. The Canon files are the most flexible. 

I would have loved to see a NX1MkII... I think a lot of potential was there. The 16-50s lens was wonderful. I loved my Sony, but the Canon is in another league. I can not recall a time where I looked at an image coming out of my 1DXMkII and thought it didn't look great. By right any one of these cameras are good enough for the work most people will do. If you have the means the Canon is an attractive choice. The A7R3 will likely be out soon, so if Sony is your poison... you might want to wait. The Samsung only makes sense if you can find a really good deal. 

I don't see myself parting with my Canon any time soon... It's an epic camera. 

 

 

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9 hours ago, DBounce said:

Comparing NX1, A7R2 and 1DXMkII... 

I rank them as follows: 

Canon... Sony... Samsung.

They are all great camera, but I prefer low light on the Canon. The noise is more organic. The Sony rules for resolution. The Samsung had the best UI. 

Video performance: the Sony always felt a bit videoish to me. Regardless what processing I would do. The image was also more fragile than the Canon in post. The NX1 seemed to lack DR. The Canon files are the most flexible. 

I would have loved to see a NX1MkII... I think a lot of potential was there. The 16-50s lens was wonderful. I loved my Sony, but the Canon is in another league. I can not recall a time where I looked at an image coming out of my 1DXMkII and thought it didn't look great. By right any one of these cameras are good enough for the work most people will do. If you have the means the Canon is an attractive choice. The A7R3 will likely be out soon, so if Sony is your poison... you might want to wait. The Samsung only makes sense if you can find a really good deal. 

I don't see myself parting with my Canon any time soon... It's an epic camera. 

 

 

For me is samsung, canon and then sony. It's actually very subjective.

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On 11/1/2017 at 8:20 PM, DBounce said:

Comparing NX1, A7R2 and 1DXMkII... 

I rank them as follows: 

Canon... Sony... Samsung.

They are all great camera, but I prefer low light on the Canon. The noise is more organic. The Sony rules for resolution. The Samsung had the best UI. 

Video performance: the Sony always felt a bit videoish to me. Regardless what processing I would do. The image was also more fragile than the Canon in post. The NX1 seemed to lack DR. The Canon files are the most flexible. 

I would have loved to see a NX1MkII... I think a lot of potential was there. The 16-50s lens was wonderful. I loved my Sony, but the Canon is in another league. I can not recall a time where I looked at an image coming out of my 1DXMkII and thought it didn't look great. By right any one of these cameras are good enough for the work most people will do. If you have the means the Canon is an attractive choice. The A7R3 will likely be out soon, so if Sony is your poison... you might want to wait. The Samsung only makes sense if you can find a really good deal. 

I don't see myself parting with my Canon any time soon... It's an epic camera. 

 

 

Am in two minds either to get 1dxmii or wait for gh5 i know price diffrence but its just Canon colours that i love and PDAF 

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@Marco Tecno

Quote

The NX1 downsamples from 6.5k (full sensor readout) hence I wouldn't call it "over sharp". It's simply as sharp as it should be coming from that high res. It's the only hybrid camera doing this from such a high res, AFAIK

Exactly. But as it lacks an individual image texture (tack sharp, puristic look), so people speak about "over sharp". When Canon declares their 720p mushy pixel soup as 1080p, C-Fanboys speak affectionately about "warmish and smooth outlines"...Resolution is nothing but resolution. 4K should be real 4K. After watching some newest RED footage on an expensive monitor in London, I would say, NX1 footage seems "mushy" compared with the RED one...As always, it's a matter of perspective...Tack sharp footage can be smoothed in post...BUT mushy, baked in pixel soap can NOT be sharpened as much...

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