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Jimmy

Wedding videography advice

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You are very right, I am learning this fact. This year has been a real eye opening experience in that regard. The guy I worked for didn't post his prices for a long time, and finally did. He pays me maybe a third of the total cost. I know he has to meet and do all that, but that's still way less work than I'm doing. 

The guys you are talking about are smart indeed. It's a suckers game being the working grunt. 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

@dbp

Yeah, my wedding and other filming assistance was eye opening for me - from economical point of view. Nobody (under 15.000 Euro budget) cares much about grading, color science, etc. Because they all (not only wedding people) say, it's a business and any addtional hour spended on it, costs much money....BTW: The hired wedding camera man (freelancer) worked with a C100 ii. Cheapest Sony FS7 guy I've meet charged 75 Euro an hour. In my eyes, a joke and quite impossible to survive with these rates...

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To kind of piggy back on this topic, what would your gear list be if you were first starting out as a wedding videographer for small weddings, with a budget of $1000 USD? I'm serious.

(I'm piggy backing, because there are a lot of good information here, in regards to wedding videos already.)

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I havent read all the comments, so what im gonna say might have been said already.

I own an NX1 and a7sII right now, although I barely used the a7sII, because im waiting for some lenses to arrive, from what I've tested, I dont think ill like it as much as the NX1. I have seen people using and creating beautifull things with the Sony, so im sure you can eventually make stunning stuff, but off the bat, the footage isnt as impressive as the NX1. Also, after getting the 16-50s, I dont feel like I need anyother lenses at all, it hasnt left my camera in quite a while (I had Sigma art 35,50mm, sigma 18-35mm, samyangs, tamrons etc), so you kinda have a full package with around 2k€, which is stunning. With the a7sII, you will need a combination of cameras, and some time to learn how to grade (if you dont know already) and treat your image, but its still an amazing camera.

NX1 footage :

 

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@ricardo_sousa11

Beautiful clip, exquisite style. But imo too flat, dark and desaturated to judge the camera's DR and colors. As I see it, you successfully managed to work around the NX1's prominent feature, overly sharp outlines in every detail, mistaken for superior resolution and not looking natural. Search on Youtube Samsung NX1 wedding, and you see what I mean in many instances. You tamed the beast, but your approach is not that of a normal highkey wedding with vivid colors. I even found the fir needles @1'30" a little too much.

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6 hours ago, Axel said:

@ricardo_sousa11

Beautiful clip, exquisite style. But imo too flat, dark and desaturated to judge the camera's DR and colors. As I see it, you successfully managed to work around the NX1's prominent feature, overly sharp outlines in every detail, mistaken for superior resolution and not looking natural. Search on Youtube Samsung NX1 wedding, and you see what I mean in many instances. You tamed the beast, but your approach is not that of a normal highkey wedding with vivid colors. I even found the fir needles @1'30" a little too much.

This was a specific clip to go for a moddy style, but you can go for a more vibrant style very easily and it still looks great.

 

Most people who did get the NX1 arent good, they were consumers who wanted a camera, very few prosumers/professionals actually got the NX1, so i'd pick carefully what you're watching online, because most of it is going to look terrible.

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1 hour ago, ricardo_sousa11 said:

This was a specific clip to go for a moddy style, but you can go for a more vibrant style very easily and it still looks great.

Not very vibrant either (Mara-smile). It seems to mimic some film stock, has grain and the colors looks like from the 70's. Admit that's it's highly stylized. Skin is rare, but in CUs it looks peculiar (1'37"). And everything that's perfectly in focus looks embossed almost as if like for AAE's cartoon effect.

Don't get me wrong, YOUR work is perfect. But imo the NX1 is not the right tool for everbody. 

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16 minutes ago, Cary Knoop said:

I think your black levels are way too high.

Needed for the analog look. As soon as the black slug was projected on the screen after the lights went down, the screen became brighter. So much for the allegedly higher DR in classic cinema.

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5 minutes ago, Axel said:

Needed for the analog look. As soon as the black slug was projected on the screen after the lights went down, the screen became brighter. So much for the allegedly higher DR in classic cinema.

Sorry but that does not make any sense to me.

If we look at the scope it is clear the black levels are wrong:

scope.jpg

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To me that clearly seems a stylistic choice. I'm more drawn to wedding videos that are a little more cheerful, upbeat, happy, bubbly, but that does tend to get a little cliché. So, I admire the spin on it, to make it a little more dramatic yet mellow. There's a calmness, it's peaceful/serene. The grade reflects that. It's not another overly energetic video, it's not poppy. Certainly that's something that some couples can appreciate, also pretty sure that's something that wouldn't fit the personalities of other couples. But when you're talking about taste and creative choice, anything is subjective. So I wouldn't go and say that's wrong.

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4 hours ago, Cary Knoop said:

Sorry but that does not make any sense to me.

If we look at the scope it is clear the black levels are wrong:

scope.jpg

The filmic look comes from dynamic range, but unfortunately not all cameras have enough to have that filmic look, therefore we raise the black levels to mimic that style. Its a stylistic choice, I dont like vibrant looks, to me, thats as vibrant as I would go. But I dont think its the cameras fault, its as versatile as any other camera.

This is a friends work, also with NX1 :

I think the NX1 has a much more pleasing look than any of the sonys for example, specially after trying my new a7sII, its very easy to have terrible skin tones.

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9 hours ago, ricardo_sousa11 said:

This is a friends work, also with NX1 :

(Karli & Casey - video)

I think the NX1 has a much more pleasing look than any of the sonys for example, specially after trying my new a7sII, its very easy to have terrible skin tones.

Yeah. 

What I again notice in every perfectly focussed shot is the terrible sharpening. Perhaps a strong ProMist filter could help against the sharpening? 

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On 09/12/2016 at 6:13 AM, Axel said:

Yeah. 

What I again notice in every perfectly focussed shot is the terrible sharpening. Perhaps a strong ProMist filter could help against the sharpening? 

Sharpening is an issue, some people apply blur on post, you could try some ProMist and it should work fine, but i've never done it myself.

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@Axel

People criticize Canon for "soft" 1080p IQ. OK...When getting very sharp footage (eg out of the NX1), they soften it artificially. I've often seen many mushy pixel soups out of the NX and I ask myself about the sense of shooting sharp and detailed footage (people like crisp sharp 8K footage out of the RED too...) for ruining it in post...If one likes soft and grainy footage, one just need to use a 6D. Perfect soft and undetailed footage out of the camera...Please consider, I am still quite young and unexperienced, but in my eyes that's quite absurd...

I never met a person saying: "What a beautiful mushy footage...". People around me say: "What a beautiful crisp footage...". OK, people saying this are not filmmakers but spectators - and still I tend to trust them...

@ricardo_sousa11

The Aflatis-Films footage out of the NX1 is gorgeous...Your friend handles the Samsung and its colours very well....

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I think it's as simple as those two examples representing the two opposite extremes, and people here want something more in the middle- a detailed image without artificial sharpening making it look gross.

6D footage has issues outside of resolution and sharpening- mainly awful moire and aliasing- and you can't really fix them.

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On 12/8/2016 at 0:50 PM, ricardo_sousa11 said:

The filmic look comes from dynamic range, but unfortunately not all cameras have enough to have that filmic look, therefore we raise the black levels to mimic that style. Its a stylistic choice, I dont like vibrant looks, to me, thats as vibrant as I would go.

Of course if that is your preferred taste then you should continue doing that.  But I would not equate that look with 'film'.

I suppose you are not a technicolor fan?

 

 

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