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Jimmy

Wedding videography advice

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51 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Possibilities:
1) this was specially staged (so not normal) just for the YouTube video, and no photographer was present
2) they just framed out the photographer and didn't include in the edit
3) it doesn't matter.... even if you get a video shoot time slot which is all to yourself during a wedding (that you don't have to share with the photographer, and that is kinda unusual, especially on the low budget shoots she is doing it seems), then you're talking about mere minutes you have per pose/setting/clip you need to smash out quickly on the spot before they need to get back to the wedding. And it is highly likely she could be working alone (even if she isn't working alone, then possibly her second shooter has to stay back at the wedding venue to "hold the fort" in case any spontaneous moments pop up which they'd want filmed)

Other possibilities:

1) She skipped the tutorial on moving the subject to a different location or shooting from a different angle to get the best lighting.

2) There was a photographer standing over her shoulder but he (or she) was photo-shopped out of the image.

3) The clients genuinely like ugly video.

4) Parker mischievously graded her clips to look bad in order to not look as good as his own.

5) She forgot the ND filter in the car and was too lazy to walk back and get it.

I agree with @GreekBeast - she's gotta be one helluva good salesperson, because the shots are pretty awful. 

@Jimmy No hard feelings. You're right, it might be better to get fifteen interesting shots than five well-lit ones - but she didn't even accomplish that.

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17 minutes ago, jonpais said:

You're right, it might be better to get fifteen interesting shots than five well-lit ones - but she didn't even accomplish that.

I mean interesting to the bride and groom though, not to filmmakers... Look at the 15 or so shots in that minireel that were form the bride and groom alone time, let's assume she had the standard 15-20 mins you get with the bride and groom... She has a nice variety of angles and compositions... good variation in locations... good, steady movement... alot of focus on the bride... some good wide shots... all the bread and butter shots like hands with rings.

Whether a filmmaking forum will swoon or not doesn't come into it... Those shots are gonna be loved by the clients and it's another $1500 in the back pocket.

I don't know if you've ever done a wedding shot, but you come out of that 15-20 minute session frazzled. To come out of it with all the classic shots is amazing in itself.... If you get 2-3 "oh wow" shots, then it's been a great day. 

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1 hour ago, Deadcode said:

Here in eastern europe, 1500 usd for a wedding cinematographer means you have a very fancy wedding and your are hireing a pro group with 2 or 3 person 😄 the wage gap between here and the west is insane.

Same here (Greece), especially for destination videography (1 person usually doing drone or 3rd camera on occasion).

I also know people charging as much going only with an ultra cheap assistant, charging almost only for their marketing campaigns.

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49 minutes ago, jhnkng said:

...did we watch the same video? I skipped to the last few minutes just to watch her work and to see her footage, which I thought looked great -- I mean it's a wedding, you don't have the luxury of a gaffer truck and crew. She was confident in her instruction, she knew her gear and moved fast to get the maximum number of shots in a short space of time. There was a couple of shots where the background was a bit hot, but mate who cares about the background?!? Her exposure was on her couple! As it should be!

Your criticism makes me wonder if you've ever shot a wedding before, because it's a high pressure environment where you work with people you don't cast and barely know and you're at the mercy of someone else's schedule and the weather. You're on your feet all day and constantly worried about making sure you've covered everything that's happening and with enough variety for the edit, and keeping tabs on battery life and card space and where you've left your camera bag. If I had a second they'd be busy getting a second angle, not holding a reflector. Not entirely sure how you expect to see any diffusion -- to diffuse full sun for two people walking they'd be under a 20' x 12' at least, and then you'd have to worry about shadows on the ground and the wind blowing the damn thing over.

As a wedding photographer (who have also shot a few wedding highlight films) I'd be more than happy to work with her on a wedding. Definitely better than some that I've had to work with. My only criticism would be that she's simply not charging enough if she has to work 80 weddings a year, that is an express train to burnout town. 

+1 I couldn't have put it better myself. Her images were a bit over-contrasty for my taste but otherwise it was great. It was in focus, smooth & she got the right shots. I haven't shot a wedding in five years but I would have been perfectly happy to deliver video like that to my clients.

@jonpais has clearly never shot a wedding nether does he any appreciation of how a wedding is shot. An assistant with a diffuser or reflector? Are you kidding? ND filters? Just crank up the shutter speed. You are shooting a live event there are no re-takes & if you miss a shot like the first kiss or the ring shot you are stuffed.

Good for her! She is making money & giving her clients what they want. She doesn't need to care about some amateur nitpicking about the quality of her work.

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@nigelbb I was the staff photographer at the headquarters of a Fortune 500 company; exhibited my work in museums and galleries; worked as a wedding photographer; spent some time working at a professional lab; did product photography and automotive shoots; and freelanced for newspapers and magazines. I’ve worked under tight deadlines for very demanding clients. You can kiss my ass.

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3 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@nigelbb I was the staff photographer at the headquarters of a Fortune 500 company; exhibited my work in museums and galleries; worked as a wedding photographer; spent some time working at a professional lab; did product photography and automotive shoots; and freelanced for newspapers and magazines. I’ve worked under tight deadlines for very demanding clients. You can kiss my ass.

Excellent, so you can show us some work then? Which I'm sure we won't harshly and unfairly rip into with no thought to context or the conditions you worked under.

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1 hour ago, jonpais said:

1) She skipped the tutorial on moving the subject to a different location or shooting from a different angle to get the best lighting.

Why not just move the sun while she's at it!?

The bride and groom are going to want things they cherish from the day in frame... The church, the venue, the grounds etc. Sometimes you might get an angle that also gives good light, sometimes you don't.

How can you have shot weddings and have this little awareness of what is possible and not?

"I'm just going to position you next to these grave stones as the light is better than when we have the church in frame"

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4 hours ago, jonpais said:

@nigelbb I was the staff photographer at the headquarters of a Fortune 500 company; exhibited my work in museums and galleries; worked as a wedding photographer; spent some time working at a professional lab; did product photography and automotive shoots; and freelanced for newspapers and magazines. I’ve worked under tight deadlines for very demanding clients. You can kiss my ass.

So you haven't shot a wedding video or indeed been paid for shooting any video? Which makes you an amateur videographer who has never shot a wedding video who still feels entitled to criticise a working professional doing something which you are incapable of doing. It doesn't matter how fancy a photographer you were you don't know what you are talking about.

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51 minutes ago, nigelbb said:

So you haven't shot a wedding video or indeed been paid for shooting any video? Which makes you an amateur videographer who has never shot a wedding video who still feels entitled to criticise a working professional doing something which you are incapable of doing. It doesn't matter how fancy a photographer you were you don't know what you are talking about.

As I said before, you're an idiot if you think I can't do wedding videos.

I've simply got no interest in doing weddings.

This is just a lens test of the Leica Nocticron on the GH4 (firmly affixed to a tripod) with the bride-to-be getting her hair done.

Oh, right - and a Hoya ND filter.

And this is a shoot I did in the park with the G85 and Sigma Art 50mm f/1.4. Not a wedding shoot, but so what.

 

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4 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

So, you've spent half the day talking about something you've never done or have no intention of doing? Passes the time, I guess.

Two years and eight pages later, but you still never showed any of your work. Wonder why?

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That old classic..

I don't need to use my clients to win internet arguments... it's their big day, not my cv. If you're that desperate to see something though... I'll post some highlights some time.

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4 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

That old classic..

I don't need to use my clients to win internet arguments... it's their big day, not my cv. If you're that desperate to see something though... I'll post some highlights some time.

But you and your cohorts were trying to pull the same shit with me. Not desperate. I could care less about your imaginary showreel, your imaginary clients or your imaginary website.

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15 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Knock yourself out...

http://www.riversidecreative.net

There is an imaginary featured video here... pixel peep your night away.

We said it to you because you didn't seem to understand the pressure of wedding work while slating someone's work... 

Perhaps you didn't hear me - I've worked on automotive and product photography at studios with art directors standing over our shoulders; done event photography and portraiture for General Motors; processed film at a professional lab in the Detroit metropolitan area; did photography for human interest stories for magazines and newspapers; and worked for one of the busiest wedding photography studios in Oakland County, Michigan. And we didn't have the luxury of digital - everything was film. So yeah, I guess you could say I know what it's like to work under pressure.

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Oh, i heard, that's why the earlier statements about moving the bride/groom and what not seemed even strange. If you've done wedding shots, you know the pressure. You are fully entitled to your opinion on her work, but I personally think, if you have worked in that industry, you should cut her some slack.

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3 hours ago, jonpais said:

But you and your cohorts were trying to pull the same shit with me. Not desperate. I could care less about your imaginary showreel, your imaginary clients or your imaginary website.

I’d like to see some of your work from your time as a professional photographer. Maybe some of those car shots with General Motors you talked about. Because I’ve only ever seen you post camera tests, nothing where you operate under pressure. Surely with the kind of career you describe you’ve got 15 shots from an old book to show?

I’ll start — here’s my wedding work: https://www.harustudio.com.au/

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20 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Same here (Greece), especially for destination videography (1 person usually doing drone or 3rd camera on occasion).

I also know people charging as much going only with an ultra cheap assistant, charging almost only for their marketing campaigns.

The prices they charge do seem insane, even to someone from the States.

The thing is, $1,000-$1,500.00 is what mediocre photographers charge for marginal work.

For that kind of dough, I might as well wait tables, and I have. Working fine dining makes wedding photography look like a walk in the park.

Truly talented wedding photographers can command as much as $10,000 or more. 

And they don't need to book 80 weddings a year to put food on the table.

The ones in the mediocre category are the ones who always make excuses why they couldn't have posed the couple better, exposed better, changed up the camera angle, used a reflector or chosen a different focal length and on and on and on. The ones who say two or three 'wow' shots is enough.

Below, a random shot taken from Jason Lanier's blog, someone I consider at the top of their game.

DSC09839.jpg

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