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wolf33d

5DIV full spec and full image leak

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9 minutes ago, Nikkor said:

There are also external recorders. Internal codecs have this tendency to give crappy motion cadence (nikon's codec for example).I believe MJPEG doesn't have this problem.

Anyway, if canon made this camera in less bulky mirrorless body I wouldn't hesitate.

True, that can be a plus of the mjpeg codec. The motion cadence of my A7s *seems* crappy in comparison. Watching the strange stuttering motion of cars for example.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

The more i think about these specs the less excited I am.. 1.7x crop would be pretty bad, especially at 3800 euros.. having to transcode a 500mbps outdated codec also sounds like a PITA... no log or focus assist.. no 4K output.. pixel-binned 1080p.. really DPAF is the only good news here. I'll reserve my judgement until final specs are released but it ain't looking pretty..

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12 hours ago, thecouchguy said:

Indefensible indeed. At the moment for my needs I'll be getting a mkiii and putting magic lantern on it. If Canon didn't go full retard preventing ML on the 1dx, I'd be going that route, i'm happy to lose warranty if it is my choice. I need the best image possible (i'm a hobbyist for now,) and a stills camera in one to compliment my A7s. I do astro time lapse and nature videos, I'll start doing short documentaries next year but they will be for learning and not raking in income. Without magic lantern I'd just get an a7rii and be done with it, however I like the colours and motion of the Canons and Black Magics.

 

If they would put a few different flavours of Pro Res (or something similar) on the Mk4 and cfast for higher data rates then, it would be a done deal. If Sony would do the same on an A9 then I would splurge on XQD and enjoy a fantastic stills camera with great video. A good rugged stills/video hybrid without the gimping to protect their $10000/$25000 cinema lines would be a dream. They could always include h.264 in the menu for the event shooters.

 

I'm not in the position to pay for a Scarlet or even Ursa mini at the moment. I  guess the thing for some of us is that because of Black Magic and Magic Lantern, we know technically it is possible to have great 1080p video in a small package. It is just frustrating to know it won't happen because Sony/Canon wish to protect their cinema lines. It's their choice and I understand their side of things.

 

I guess i'll get a second hand MKiii to hack and then get a bmmcc or kine terra later to compliment. I'm happy to deal with the data. Anyway, if they use motion jpeg it will be high data rates with 8 bit. 16mins on a 64Gb card for 8 bit video does not suit my needs Canon.

 

Peace.

I'd say there will be plenty of good quality used 5D III's up for sale real soon now.

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The specs so far look great imo. I could imagine myself buying it.
The Codec is the main selling point for me. Also the crop is welcomed.

The only downside so far is the earlier models low prices. The 1DC I had was much cheaper and probably not far off in quality. And in the end I choose the even cheaper 5Dmkii and sold the 1DC. 5D had more features and raw.
And now when the 5Dmkiii is almost sub $1K and definitely will be as soon as the 5Dmkiv is out... it looks like the better deal on paper.

But again, paper and specs doesn't mean anything at all. The only thing that matters is the actual results. So its to early to judge the camera. Specially since even the specs are simply rumors.

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Full spec completely updated. Say bye bye to C-LOG

http://www.canonrumors.com/full-specifications-images-of-eos-5d-mark-iv/

This is completely underwhelming. The only think left to Canon is DPAF and the lenses. Nikon make way better stills camera (the D810 2 years old explodes any canon on the market), Sony and Panasonic make better video cameras.

Yet half the planet will buy this shit.

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I'm sorry but how many times do people need to be told by Canon that they will not include C-Log in cameras that are not part of the C Series before they will believe them?

You cannot logically blame Canon for not including something they have repeatedly told the world they will not include...

It reminds me of Einstein's definition of insanity. 

However, with the price drop of the 1dC, I wouldn't be surprised if Canon releases a 5dC. 

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On 17/08/2016 at 9:21 AM, Mattias Burling said:

I dont give a crap about specs. I care about how it preforms. Just look at the Sony A7sii, a6300 and GH4. Great specs but suck ass compared to a 5Dmkiii.

You have obviously never used these cameras. When in capable hands they can be more than just capable tools. GH4 is far more operator-friendly than a 5Dmiii. a6300 works well when used in the right way. Overheats, yes, but the results are stunning. 

1 hour ago, Mattias Burling said:

The specs so far look great imo. I could imagine myself buying it.
The Codec is the main selling point for me. Also the crop is welcomed.
 

In all seriousness, do you work for Canon?

The specs are underwhelming, the codec is a prehistoric albatross and the crop is certainly not welcomed. 

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43 minutes ago, mercer said:

I'm sorry but how many times do people need to be told by Canon that they will not include C-Log in cameras that are not part of the C Series before they will believe them?

You cannot logically blame Canon for not including something they have repeatedly told the world they will not include...

It reminds me of Einstein's definition of insanity. 

However, with the price drop of the 1dC, I wouldn't be surprised if Canon releases a 5dC. 

Doesn't change the fact that it's poor customer service. 

You're right, people should expect Canon to not pander to their lobbying. Live with Canon's shoddy response or shift loyalties to another company. 

Canon's ecosystem is keeping customers around but the more they continue to underwhelm and the more that competing companies innovate and address peoples needs, it's inevitable they're going to see some attrition over time. 

But let's admit it, to not add a line of code to provide peaking and zebras is just a bitch-slap to the face. 

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1 minute ago, Timotheus said:

At least that crop means there's some good APS-C glass to use for 4K (Sigma 18-35, 50-100)

:-/

Yeah, but EF-S lenses won't be able to mount, and for anyone who needs to shoot wider than 24mm and faster than f4, you are SOL. The widest you can go is ~24mm equivalent on the 14mm f/2.8L. Yes there are 3rd party options but I don't think they'll stand up... I love the Tokina 11-16 for time lapses and wide safety shots but I would definitely not use it on a 4k hero shot at f/2.8. 

 

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17 minutes ago, forofilms said:

Doesn't change the fact that it's poor customer service. 

You're right, people should expect Canon to not pander to their lobbying. Live with Canon's shoddy response or shift loyalties to another company. 

Canon's ecosystem is keeping customers around but the more they continue to underwhelm and the more that competing companies innovate and address peoples needs, it's inevitable they're going to see some attrition over time. 

But let's admit it, to not add a line of code to provide peaking and zebras is just a bitch-slap to the face. 

What about Sony not putting a touchscreen on the A7rII or a6300? Or only offering 8-bit 4:2:0 internal? Or not using UHS-II? Or not allowing users to assign a custom button for FF/APS-c mode or formatting a card? Or not resetting all video file numbers to 0000 with a card swap, so if you use three cards you have three files numbered 0001, 0002 and so on? I have a number of other gripes about my A7rII, but that's for another thread.

Many Sony complaints fall into your line of code bitch slap logic, they fix bugs (sometimes), but I'd hardly call them responsive to customers demands. The grass isn't always greener.

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31 minutes ago, forofilms said:

Doesn't change the fact that it's poor customer service. 

You're right, people should expect Canon to not pander to their lobbying. Live with Canon's shoddy response or shift loyalties to another company. 

Canon's ecosystem is keeping customers around but the more they continue to underwhelm and the more that competing companies innovate and address peoples needs, it's inevitable they're going to see some attrition over time. 

But let's admit it, to not add a line of code to provide peaking and zebras is just a bitch-slap to the face. 

Yeah, the personal side of me gets a little annoyed that they don't include all of the above, but the business side of me doesn't blame them. It's market segmentation.

The real issue is that Canon has way too many camera models and too many benchmarks for each line. But if you look at their models and the features they include in each respective camera, their company strategy is pretty evident. And it seems to be working for them...

But honestly, how exactly is it poor customer service? If you are a customer who purchased a camera based on the specs presented at the time of purchase, how can you complain it doesn't have more than offered? And you have to be a customer to receive service. Three quarters of the people who complain about Canon on these forums are trolls and not actual customers. 

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2 minutes ago, mercer said:

Yeah, the personal side of me gets a little annoyed that they don't include all of the above, but the business side of me doesn't blame them. It's market segmentation.

The real issue is that Canon has way too many camera models and too many benchmarks for each line. But if you look at their models and the features they include in each respective camera, their company strategy is pretty evident. And it seems to be working for them...

But because of this segmentation, some consumers (such as myself) are not purchasing Canon bodies. Yes, I could invest into the cinema line, but I'd paying more for the equivalent I get in Sony and I lose the stills capability.

The segment that Canon is choosing to ignore is the hybrid shooter out there who has a need for sophisticated video features. Sony (and Panasonic to a lesser degree) is exploiting this segment because of it.

Yes, Sony products are far from perfect. But where else can you get a full frame, 4k camera with video assist features and log that can competently shoot stills? Is that too much to ask in 2016? Is that too much to ask from Canon?

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So to sum up:

Canon are stupid for not focusing on video in whats probably the most successful DSLR line in history. Even though the video shooters are just a tiny tiny tiny minority among the buyers of still cameras.

The professionals as well as amateurs that buy it are just stupid and uneducated. No way they could actually like it.

Its better to have a +$3000 camera overheat in the middle of a job than to make it work.

Me who own 0 products from canon but have bought pretty much every camera Sony ever made obviously work for Canon.

The absolute majority of professional still shooters buy Canon or Nikon. But they will now switch to m4/3 because the 5D doesn't have C-Log.

Yeah.. I'm not sure.This is my prediction:

It will be the most sold fullframe DSLR for the next 5 years.

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2 hours ago, wolf33d said:

Nikon make way better stills camera (the D810 2 years old explodes any canon on the market)

Yea, right.... I guess all those guys at the Olympics are just fanboys or paid by Canon?

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14 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

So to sum up:

Canon are stupid for not focusing on video in whats probably the most successful DSLR line in history. Even though the video shooters are just a tiny tiny tiny minority among the buyers of still cameras.

The professionals as well as amateurs that buy it are just stupid and uneducated. No way they could actually like it.

Its better to have a +$3000 camera overheat in the middle of a job than to make it work.

Me who own 0 products from canon but have bought pretty much every camera Sony ever made obviously work for Canon.

The absolute majority of professional still shooters buy Canon or Nikon. But they will now switch to m4/3 because the 5D doesn't have C-Log.

Yeah.. I'm not sure.This is my prediction:

It will be the most sold fullframe DSLR for the next 5 years.

Here at EOSHD forums we are a highly-specialized, niche segment of the market. We speak and critique from that perspective.

I really don't care what the weekend warriors, vloggers, Japanese tourists and moonlighting wedding photographers do with their resources and purchasing decisions. 

I'm sure Canon will sell well. That's not what we're discussing. The question to debate is whether the 5Dmiv is a competent tool for this community and whether it delivers the performance and value that we would expect from a $3200-3800 body.   

Canon is free to turn up their noses at any segment they wish - yes, they will still sell to the hordes - but we are free to critique their merchandise and when we feel it's not up to par in the marketplace, free to state so. Just because they sell tons of cameras doesn't necessarily mean their cameras are adequate tools for sophisticated hybrid shooters. This is the perspective I'm critiquing them from. 

Sony is releasing products geared to what you call a "tiny tiny tiny minority" - now why do you think such a big company is focusing on such a "tiny" segment? I guess Sony is jsut stupid, right?

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If you think Sony is stupid, that's up to you.

You can debate from any perspective you want. But if you exclude "weekend warriors, vloggers, Japanese tourists and moonlighting wedding photographers", then there is like 2 people left for you to debate. 

BTW, if that's the criteria there is no way you can talk about the GH4 and A7x. Its not like they are A-cams on anything above what you just dismissed.

In other words, your logic is very confusing to me and I feel that debating you further gets us no where fast.

I will continue to speak about the 5Dmkiv for what it is and don't care if you only want to focus on certain perspectives. Your just gonna have to ignore my posts.

 

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36 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Yea, right.... I guess all those guys at the Olympics are just fanboys or paid by Canon?

No, it's because they're invested up to the eyeballs in Canon glass. 

5 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

If you think Sony is stupid, that's up to you.

You can debate from any perspective you want. But if you exclude "weekend warriors, vloggers, Japanese tourists and moonlighting wedding photographers", then there is like 2 people left for you to debate. 

BTW, if that's the criteria there is no way you can talk about the GH4 and A7x. Its not like they are A-cams on anything above what you just dismissed.

In other words, your logic is very confusing to me and I feel that debating you further gets us no where fast.

I will continue to speak about the 5Dmkiv for what it is and don't care if you only want to focus on certain perspectives. Your just gonna have to ignore my posts.

 

Okay, fair enough. but just don't lie, man. Don't tell me its a competitive offering when it comes to video features. Don't try and tell me or anyone here that we don't need log and peaking at a $3500 price. Don't tell me the MJPEG codec is innovative. And certainly, don't tell me that crop is "welcomed" on piece of kit at this price point.  

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I think most of us want Canon to be more competitive for video. That said, Canon DSLRs needs rigging to be usable for video as there is no EVF which makes it difficult to shoot handheld - way more shaking then Sony with 5-axes stabilisation. What i like with Canon is snappy speed for still shooting e.g. sports / events. Where is my need for a Canon video DSLR? shooting sport events from quite a distance e.g. 70-200 lense or 400mm. Then the PDAF could be excellent - Downside is the big file sizes. I hear people complain about Sony and video AF, I find it rather good and useable using FE lenses- I don't have any Sony 400mm lense and have to use Metabones - that solution has its limitations. Thats where Canon could be more useful for me. Pretty much anything else is covered by Sonys. 

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50 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

It will be the most sold fullframe DSLR for the next 5 years.

I'm not too worried about Canon sales yet I'm not entirely sure about it having the same reception as the 5D3.. when the 5D3 was released 4 years ago there wasn't much like it in FF world, allowing it to reach it's epic status as perfect pro all-rounder in stills photography and with great video options. Today that's a whole different story, Nikon & Sony have caught up and leap-frogged Canon. A quick look at DxOMark ( http://www.dxomark.com/cameras#hideAdvancedOptions=false&viewMode=list&yDataType=rankDxo ) and you'll find the Top 20 cameras of the moment are all Nikon/Sony (and two PhaseOne's) 1DX II ranks 21st, 5DS 27th.. and 5D3 52nd position! Of course in the real world the 5D3 is still found everywhere in pro bags but that's just more about photogs not upgrading/switching brands because technically speaking it is very outdated (not surprising for a 2012 camera) and not to mention pros are only a segment of the overall market.

Now indeed specs don't mean everything, and I am saying this as a primarily stills shooter who just bought a 5D3 last month! I did so though because it made sense lens wise to be in Canon ecosystem as I also own a C100. But coming from the D750 (which has it's flaws) and going back to the 5D3 feels like quite a leap backwards in terms of sensor / IQ. Now I'm expecting a vast improvement in the 5D4 sensor, especially concerning DR but that still remains to be shown.

Also video has become of huge importance in the photography market, especially prosumers. they want great FF 4K video. it's the trendy thing. I know a lot are going to be surprised, bummed out by the crop.. in an age when even an iPhone can switch from stills to 4K video without cropping.

Then finally, disregarding totally still shooters and prosumers, you've got the pro video community which is what most of us here are about. In this particular segment, who may be smaller in terms of sales.. is pretty important as far as image/presence in the pro field (something Canon does place value in i think). Although it's too early to tell, what we know for sure is that there has been a shift from the 5D3 being the king 3-4 years ago.. to a much larger range of equipment being used today that includes GH4, BlackMagic, Nikon and of course Sony.

I'm just kind of amazed Canon doesn't seem to take much of the video markets evolution into consideration with the 5D4. When a $1K A6300 can do full readout 4K with a lesser crop, include zebra/peaking, S-Log3 & 425 phase AF points.. well the 5D4 at a whopping 3800 euros just doesn't seem that impressive. Now ok, well aware of the A6300 rolling shutter, overheat issues, battery life, color science etc... but still Canon could have definitely add a few extras (just a few lines of code indeed) to really come out with the king DSLR. But they want to protect at all costs the C line, even if it means some people (maybe even a lot) not interested in C line will go elsewhere.. It's even scarier when you think that the 5D4 will probably be it for the next 4 years..

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