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Kinefinity 2016 Nian new product launches

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On 3/31/2016 at 2:36 AM, DBounce said:

Until it's approved by Apple... it's not. End of story.

Does Apple make a habit of including on that list cameras which have not even been released yet?? And haven't yet implemented ProRes anyway.

Probably not.

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1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Does Apple make a habit of including on that list cameras which have not even been released yet?? And haven't yet implemented ProRes anyway.

Probably not.

Funny I thought the article which is over a year old, was about the Kinemax 6k. Pretty sure that's been released. Oh, not on the list? That's what I thought.  Nothing that Kinefinity produces is on the list. 

 

I recall seeing a review by Tom Antos, for this camera (Kinemax 6k). He had good things to say, but when it came time to open his checkbook? Well, no sale Kinefinity. Personally, I'll go with a name I know and a local warranty. 

 

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Wow, a conversation about a new camera release has turned into arguments over ProRes licensing? 

Kinefinity are actually a small unit in a huge Chinese astronomy imagery company, I'm sure they have all this stuff sorted. 

Aside the negativity... this camera is a very compelling option which needs better worldwide support. I'm excited to see more of this camera soon. 

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43 minutes ago, DBounce said:

Funny I thought the article which is over a year old, was about the Kinemax 6k. Pretty sure that's been released. Oh, not on the list? That's what I thought.

 

The KineMAX 6K does not have ProRes. Only the JUST ANNOUNCED 6K camera does. I doubt that Kinefinity would switch from Cineform to ProRes without getting proper licensing. Considering that everything Kinefinity has ever promised they have apparently delivered on time and time again. Just because it is a Chinese company doesn't mean they indulge in seedy business practices.

Personally I'm looking forward to picking up the 4K after this lowers the price of that camera. 2K cineform is plenty for me :)  Especially with that locking Nikon mount speedbooster.

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1 hour ago, Geoff CB said:

The KineMAX 6K does not have ProRes. Only the JUST ANNOUNCED 6K camera does. I doubt that Kinefinity would switch from Cineform to ProRes without getting proper licensing. Considering that everything Kinefinity has ever promised they have apparently delivered on time and time again. Just because it is a Chinese company doesn't mean they indulge in seedy business practices.

Totally right - I don't get the animosity here. 

1 hour ago, Geoff CB said:

Personally I'm looking forward to picking up the 4K after this lowers the price of that camera. 2K cineform is plenty for me :)  Especially with that locking Nikon mount speedbooster.

You can now get the Kinemini 4k with ALL options for $3499: http://www.kinefinity.com/shop/kinemini-battle-tested/?lang=en

The TERRA is also up for pre-order at HD Video Shop in Berlin: http://hdvideoshop.com/kinefinity/2505-kinefinity-terra-5k-6k-preorder.html#/terra_preorder_prio_-no/terra_5_or_6k-5k

I find the 5k version more compelling - as you get dual shutter modes and 5k 60fps. The 6k version doesn't have this (you get a bit higher FPS and 1 more stop of DR).

Looking forward to seeing some footage. 

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Long time lurker, first time poster. I've learned quite a bit about things like anamorphics on these forums, thanks for all the sharing! Also a lot about how to become obsessed with gear porn and bicker about silly things. HA.

I have a KineMAX 6k and it is bloody awesome. Instead of trusting someone else's abilities (or lack of abilities) to test out a camera for me and just "believe" that what's true for their experience is true for mine... I rented a KineMINI 4k (http://creativecamerarentals.com/) and gave it a spin. That experience was absolutely wonderful, coming from someone that shot a7s + shogun, fs7, fs700, 5D3, c300, c100, Ursa Mini just prior to it. It's not a perfect camera, but no camera is. Even Alexa's have problems, like being outside my price-range! :glasses: 

I could rave so hard about this cam, but I would just be listing out the spec-sheet and confirming each point. Probably better to see some films shot on it and then see if you can rent/borrow one.

Customer support has been good. Emails and shipping back and forth, pretty standard for dealing with warranty stuff and the likes. They actually update firmware too, offer trade-ins and deliver on their promises to their customers. There's a really helpful community on Facebook for Kinefinity users too, even with a couple Kine reps on there. Oh and in case you had any misconceptions about language, you don't have to learn Mandarin or Cantonese, communication can be done in English (smoother by email of course).

To the ProRes point, meh. It should be added to the existing cams in a firmware update too. Kinefinity has delivered on everything so far. If your client wants ProRes files, you can transcode the files no? Pretty easy to click a few buttons and let it run. If it's for yourself, you can probably quite easily work it into your workflow. If someone else is editing, I ship them ProRes proxies, then I grade the KRW's in Scratch. I switched over from Resolve, it wasn't as arduous as it can appear. Scratch seems to have much better 4k playback on my 2012 crapbook pro. :grin:

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As a Kinemini4k owner I'm really looking forward to these two new cameras (or one camera with 2 sensors). I admire the progress that Kinefinity has made since Kinemini days (only two years since the annoucement, along URSA which I was considering but the size and weight turned me off),
To me the guys behind Kinefinity listen to the customers feedback like nobody else and dont hold anything back. I remember when they released  their last firmware upgrade and for kinemini they improved the log color science, increased slow motion from 100 fps to 120, added ability to load your own luts into the camera :D added prores to their transcoding software, all of that for free.  
With these new cameras they addressed all the past issues and all my personal concerns, like sound, ergonomics, changed grip battery system, redesign the grip (that was my big concern), finally added in camera prores.
Plus keep in mind all Kinefinity cameras have the ability to put on them their active EF Kinenhancer which makes them the only cinema camera that allows you to put on speedbooster like adapter on a EF lenses. Something I have always wanted to do with BM cameras. The only down side to their EF system is no support for IS yet? (not confirmed anyway) which would be amazing especially now with this smaller run'n'gun like form factor that Terra camera has.
So in essence, Kinefinity Terra, a small form factor S35 cinema camera with a weight of a Canon 5d mk3, with 5K or 6K sensor which records 12 bit loosless RAW video with pretty amazing high speed frame rates, 15 or 16 stops of dynamic range, switchable global or rolling shooter, ability to shoot full frame (with kinenhancer), one of the most organic images for around 5k euro 

z8gdpn0zajx2mwociyia.jpg

 

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Wow wow, that is an amazing deal on the battle test KineMINI 4K!!! 

 

Seriously considering that now...  

But no David, must resist the temptation to spend money! & be content with what you have now :-)

Wonder how long until they'll have Battle Tested Terra bodies for sale? Probably not after a year, maybe two years from now? As I really like that ultra small form factor. I think I can squeeze out that much more lifespan from my Sony PMW-F3 / BMPCC until Terras show up as a Battle Tested deal.

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Is by any chance KineMount an open mount like say Micro Four Thirds is? I am guessing it is not.

 

There is a thread over on BMCuser about possible interchangeable mounts for BMD cameras.

 

Got me thinking that the absolute best result would be if BMD adopted the FZ mount in future cameras. FZ mount is what is used in the Sony F3/F5/F55, which I've used and is an absolutely wonderful mount! You can adapt it to anything else, for instance I've got a rock solid Nikon F mount on my Sony PMW-F3. So it works, and FZ is an already popular mount used by many.

 

But Sony will never let BMD use FZ mount. Thus the very nearly almost as good option is to talk with Kinefinity and see if they'd open up KineMount for everybody to use (in many ways KineMount is like Sony FZ mount, and kinda better... as Kinefinity have a focal reducer option! Yay). As if that happened it would be tremendously good news for both companies, and a massive result to help the indy / hobbyist / low / medium budget film industry.

 

Be great if Kinefinity and BMD could talk together with each other to create a universal mount system which can go onto dominate the film industry in the future.

 

http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?16668-Possible-interchangeable-mounts-for-4-6K

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4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Is by any chance KineMount an open mount like say Micro Four Thirds is? I am guessing it is not.

 

There is a thread over on BMCuser about possible interchangeable mounts for BMD cameras.

 

Got me thinking that the absolute best result would be if BMD adopted the FZ mount in future cameras. FZ mount is what is used in the Sony F3/F5/F55, which I've used and is an absolutely wonderful mount! You can adapt it to anything else, for instance I've got a rock solid Nikon F mount on my Sony PMW-F3. So it works, and FZ is an already popular mount used by many.

 

But Sony will never let BMD use FZ mount. Thus the very nearly almost as good option is to talk with Kinefinity and see if they'd open up KineMount for everybody to use (in many ways KineMount is like Sony FZ mount, and kinda better... as Kinefinity have a focal reducer option! Yay). As if that happened it would be tremendously good news for both companies, and a massive result to help the indy / hobbyist / low / medium budget film industry.

 

Be great if Kinefinity and BMD could talk together with each other to create a universal mount system which can go onto dominate the film industry in the future.

 

http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?16668-Possible-interchangeable-mounts-for-4-6K

I actually worked on a custom speed booster for a Kinimini4k.  the kinemount is exactly the same as a PL mount but with a ffd of around 20mm(from what I remember) rather than the usual 52mm ffd of true PL.  So their PL mount which you'd use for running say s4's or ultra primes is just a PL-PL extender tube of 32mm thickness.  the EF mount is a tube of 24mm thickness with electronic contacts and a ef mount instead of a PL mount on the front.  

 

Effectively you could make a Leica M mount or just about any mount.  infact I think kinefinity will manufacture custom mounts at your request, and have recently started offering their own speed booster (i think based on the custom work I undertook for Rob Bannister).

Personally i think the kinemount is the most important design attribute of the kinifinity cameras.  infact with a speed booster type adaptor the kinemax is just about the closest thing you can get to the new 8k vista vision Weapon from RED.  take some rented otus lenses and a modified speed booster ultra (the e-mount replaced by a PL mount) and you have genuine 6k resolution (both in sensor terms and optical terms).  There are not many sensor/lens combinations from other s35 setups that can really deliver such resolution performance.

 

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The Terra has a lot of advantages over the URSA Mini 4.6k. 

- Higher Resolution. 

- Switchable shutter (the irony). 

- Higher FPS. 

- Lightweight, smaller and more modular. 

- Kinemount. 

- Choice between V-lock and Sony batteries. 

Blackmagic obviously have a much stronger sales channel and a vast user base . Plus the image quality comparison is up for questioning. Still, it's a very interesting prospect I'm very keen to explore. 

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Just to update everyone, got an email from apple today (2016/04/04) regarding Kinefinity's Apple ProRes license.

 

Quote

Dear Luke,

Thank you for your Apple ProRes inquiry.

This company is not presently licensed for Apple ProRes.

Best,
- Apple ProRes Program Office.

 

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4 hours ago, Luke Mason said:

Just to update everyone, got an email from apple today (2016/04/04) regarding Kinefinity's Apple ProRes license.

 

 

Moot.  Kinefinity wouldn't be broadcasting about prores support if they didn't have the licence in the bag in some way or another.  The person who responded to your email probably just went on their own website, saw the brand isn't listed and responded accordingly.  I seriously doubt the person handling random unsolicited emails is taking the time, let alone even able to access the list of pending licencing deals going on in one of the biggest technology companies in the world!

 

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1 hour ago, richg101 said:

Moot.  Kinefinity wouldn't be broadcasting about prores support if they didn't have the licence in the bag in some way or another.  The person who responded to your email probably just went on their own website, saw the brand isn't listed and responded accordingly.  I seriously doubt the person handling random unsolicited emails is taking the time, let alone even able to access the list of pending licencing deals going on in one of the biggest technology companies in the world!

Yes.  Not to mention that they merely could be licensing the encoder from a third party, especially if the OS/firmware is POSIX-based/Linux-based.

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1 hour ago, tupp said:

Yes.  Not to mention that they merely could be licensing the encoder from a third party, especially if the OS/firmware is POSIX-based/Linux-based.

If you looked at their marketing material, they stated that they are the first and only company in China that obtained official ProRes authorisation directly from Apple.

2 hours ago, richg101 said:

Moot.  Kinefinity wouldn't be broadcasting about prores support if they didn't have the licence in the bag in some way or another.  The person who responded to your email probably just went on their own website, saw the brand isn't listed and responded accordingly.  I seriously doubt the person handling random unsolicited emails is taking the time, let alone even able to access the list of pending licencing deals going on in one of the biggest technology companies in the world!

 

haha, unsolicited email? Apple ProRes program office encourages users to email them if they have questions regarding products that use ProRes codec, go have a look at their website.

Yes the authorisation could be pending, but that doesn't mean they could claim they already got the authorisation in the marketing material.

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7 hours ago, Emanuel said:

And what about this funny world map...

http://www.kinefinity.com/kineteam/kine-linked/?lang=en

...?!

: - D

That map is amazing - the more you look, the more you find, from Japan taking a chunk of mainland China, to the various invasions of the US, passing through the re-emergence of the Persian empire. Amusingly, google reverse image search shows this was sourced from an alt-history wiki, where people invent their own histories of the world if certain events turned out differently. This one appears to be from a history where Mary Stewart did not suffer a miscarriage http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Anglo-Dutch_Union_%28Dutch_Superpower%29

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