Robert Collins

Well presumably there are 2 different tests. Relative dynamic ranges at 'base iso' and relative DR at higher isos (or low light). They are not the same - for instance Canon sensors have much lower DR than Sony sensors at base iso but they are pretty similar at higher isos.
The 'Op' seems more interested in relative DR at base iso.

Yes, I think that is self evident. Take a shot jpeg (8 bit) and raw (14 bit) and you can recover 1 to 2 more stops in raw. Also bit rate will effect DR - I can recover more highlights in a jpeg still than in the more heavily compressed video. These factors would certainly help both the GH5 and X-H1 get closer to A7iii DR in video relative to stills than the sensor size difference might imply.

Shouldnt this thread be closed?

Just stop. You're all arguing pointlessly about nothing, lets not let this forum dip to such lows. This thread should go in the bin.

Shouldnt this thread be closed?

Exactly...
I'm not letting this fly.
He is not getting the attention he is seeking, off my back, that's for sure.
And I know 100% it is bullshit, and if by any chance it isn't, he's free to post the raw recording mod / firmware binaries anywhere he likes on the internet.

Honestly, all I really know is these conversations get horribly complicated, incredibly quickly. High isos provide benefits in low light by reducing read noise especially in low bit and dual isos can provide benefits in terms of cleaner images at high isos.
When it gets to the stage of adding 6 stop NDs to reduce light on a sensor, so you can shoot at high isos (like 3200) when an iso is effectively an electronic gain of existing light (which is bound to increase noise), it all begins to sound like nonsense!!
I also think it is unnecessary (for say my camera to say it is at iso800 when it is at iso100 internally). We are not supposed to be electrical engineers...

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-A7-III-versus-Sony-A7R-III-versus-Sony-a9___1236_1187_1162
BTW the DXOmark numbers have been released on the A7iii. 
There are no surprises but they are impressive - they are well within spitting distance of the A7riii and the D850.
The question is where does this leave an A7siii?
I know absolutely nothing but I am pretty skeptical we are going to see one soon...
1) Just looking at the numbers there seems no real justification for a 12mp sensor for US$3,000 - the delta on the lowlight performance I think would simply be too low to make it worthwhile simply because the A7iii at US$2,000 is so good....
2) Of course, there is still room for internal 10 bit recording and/or say 4k/60 but I am not convinced given all the overheating problems that Sony (and actually pretty much everyone else has had) in recent years, that Sony can provide that with a FF sensor....
3) There is perhaps the potential to take the A9 sensor and its insanely good sensor readout of data to make a video cam with next to no rolling shutter but as we didnt see that with the A9, I kinda doubt it....

Seems to me that a bit of 'camera bashing' is a necessary evil in every camera thread.
And it seems that the X-H1 has come through 63 pages of BS pretty much unscathed, so that Fuji is really onto something here, and that this camera is really growing on people.

Well apart from his ASAP is April 1st?

Well apart from his ASAP is April 1st?

Well apart from his ASAP is April 1st?

I just bought the X-H1 in Barcelona whilst I'm taking a break, and I am more impressed with it so far than I thought I would be.
I'd say it is a genuine alternative to the GH5 and A7 III, given the similar prices of all 3.
It does things the Panasonic and Sony don't do as well, or differently enough to make you have a strong personal preference for one or the other.
First of all, the small things... You can assign 1/48 shutter for 180 deg to "T" on the shutter mode dial. Instantly go from auto to 1/48 in the blink of an eye. Very useful.
The e-ink top-display is very useful and something the GH5 and Sonys lack!
One of the bigger things is the quality of the stabilisation.
It's insane. I actually think it might even be better than Oly/Pana. Steady handheld shots are almost completely locked-down as if on a tripod. Even walking glides are perfectly doable. Slider-style moves with your arm come out well.
This is one area where it is FAR superior to the Sony cameras, and it has a larger sensor than GH5 yet possibly even better 5 axis.... THAT is unique.
F-LOG and Eterna seem superb... I am not missing 10bit. Skintones, codec, all very good especially at 200Mbit which is insanely high for an IPB codec. Would be nice to have an ALL-I option but I have a feeling Fuji will do a BIG firmware update in future.
The EVF I think is superior to the Panasonic and Sony side.
I dare say the AF is better than the GH5 too, though not as good as A7 III / A7R III.
The tiny Fuji primes are wonderful, esp. 23mm F2 WR and the 35mm F1.4.
It is very responsive... recording start / stop doesn't have any lag or weirdness.
I still dislike that movie-mode is on the drive mode lever, it should be a single button press to toggle between movie and stills mode. Firmware?
Stills side is stronger than GH5. The mechanical shutter is the best I have ever had in anything. So quiet and dampened. Mega satisfying! Of course, larger sensor than GH5 and better JPEG colours (Fuji film simulations).
I wish the further X-T2 style crop in 4K was not a thing... but it's no biggie, and there's Speed Booster for X-Mount.
I wish the quality of the 1080/120fps was a little better... but it's a very nice creative tool. Plus you can access it instantly through a func. button.
On paper, A7 III and GH5 are better.
In reality.... it's game on.

The human eye can see at least 20 stops of dynamic range which is why we can easily say view a sunset without the sun blowing out and see more detail in the shadows than a camera can produce.
There are different ways of measuring dynamic range - it is not an exact science. So for instance, Sony can claim 15 stops of DR for its A73 and that might well be right by the way they measure it. DXOmark will almost certainly score it at around 14 stops using their method. By Bill Claff's measurements it is 11.6 stops (slightly below the A7R3 at 11.76)
http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm
The Red cameras do score 'extraordinary' high DR results.
https://www.dxomark.com/red-helium-8k-dxomark-sensor-score-108-a-new-all-time-high-score2/
They claim 16.5+ stops of DR but DXOmark measures it 15.2 stops (similar to say Sony claiming 15 stops and DXO measuring at 14).
What makes this 'extraordinary' is that the RED cameras are not even FF but are outperforming the best FF cameras (which makes no sense.)
Clearly Red hasnt magically improved QE of sensors relative to say Sony. DXOmark says they are using 'temporal noise reduction' which is a fancy way of saying they are combining multiple images and processing them for better image quality.
As an example you could take your camera and do bracketing -2,0,+2 and combine them in post which would increase the amount of dynamic range you could capture. What Red is effectively doing is equivalent to this but doing the post processing in camera.
 

My partner is starting her own business and part of her duties is public speaking, so I'm learning a bit about editing those videos.  When you're going to smaller events they only film them with one camera (if they film them at all) so if you want to edit the speech down for length or to take out awkward moments then I've found punching in to be very useful.
As much as I think people look down on YT and vloggers I have learned a lot about low budget film-making from watching how the best of them handle difficult situations.  Partly because their publishing schedule is too fast to allow endless re-takes of things, and partly because they often talk about filming, or walk past mirrors, etc so you get to see a bit of behind-the-scenes as well.
I particularly benefit from the fact that they have little to no planning, shoot under uncontrolled conditions and then have to make the best of it in the edit room, as that's also what my run-and-gun shooting is like with family holidays etc.  

I would 100% agree with this statement. I haven’t used the GH5, but I have lots of experience with Sony, including full frame and APS-C bodies. Eterna alone is a massive factor in my opinion.

I dont really get the 'smart marketing' from Canon. It more strikes me as a company that is dependent on 'brand loyalty' for sales not realizing that brand loyalty is a two way street.
From a marketing perspective Canon just seems to be a company with a 'lot of potential' that 'simply isnt making an effort'. That maybe not true but it is the impression Canon gives. At the opposite end of the scale, Sony's marketing 'perspective' seems to be around 'trying ' to give as much 'value' for as 'low a price'  as possible.

I dont really get the 'smart marketing' from Canon. It more strikes me as a company that is dependent on 'brand loyalty' for sales not realizing that brand loyalty is a two way street.
From a marketing perspective Canon just seems to be a company with a 'lot of potential' that 'simply isnt making an effort'. That maybe not true but it is the impression Canon gives. At the opposite end of the scale, Sony's marketing 'perspective' seems to be around 'trying ' to give as much 'value' for as 'low a price'  as possible.

Is 8bit HDR or HLG a "joke"? Here is an HDR HLG video shot from the same camera (Sony FS5) using its internal 8bit 420 Slog2 XAVC and Slog2 recorded externally from 14bit RAW to 10bit ProRes HQ (Atomos Shogun). So the 8bit is heavily compressed (100 Mbps), the 10bit is not (950 Mbps!). Totally unfair to the 8bit. But, let's see...
Same scenes - for each the first version is from Slog2 ProRes 10bit, the second from XAVC 8bit SLog2 placed on the same timeline. The video was rendered in HLG 10bit DHxNR HQ in Resolve Studio and sent to YouTube. No color correction other than the Resolve presets converting Slog2 to HLG and level adjustments. It is a real HLG video. You can easily tell which is which, since the 10bit source from RAW is 4K DCI and the 8bit source is 4K UHD.

The video has plenty of blue sky, ripe for banding. And lots of detail, and high contrast with those pesky white clouds ripe for blowouts.

There is a difference. But does it matter? Is it fixable? A laughable joke?
 

If you do not like the test ("the test is a joke," "the test tells me nothing," "YouTube converts to 8bit anyway, so what?"), suggest what you would want to see instead. I can do anything with the original Slog2 clips, including making them available for download. 

Finally, why do we care about this? ALL Sony mirrorless cameras and camcorders less than $8,000 that have log gammas (Slog2/3) and/or HLG only shoot 4K in 8bit 420 - the RXxxx series, the A7xxx and the A6xxx series, and the FS5. If shooting in log or HLG at 8bit to make 4K HDR videos is a joke, that would call into question what Sony is trying to sell, and what anyone should consider buying (note, the GH5 can only do 10bit 422 in 4K30p, not 4K60p). No Canon cameras/camcorders do 4K 10bit below $8,000 either I think. And they have log gammas. Is this a big deal?

Sensible stuff I guess. But, personally, I dont think a lot will change.
Yes the Sony bodies (especially the A7iii) look great value when compared to their nearest competitors. But you still get bitten by the lenses one way or another - either expensive native lenses or adapters/reduced performance.
I suspect the 6Dii and 5D mkiv prices will come down but that is because noone will buy them if they dont rather than they will switch to Sony.

I took a look at 'Bright' (which I had never heard of) mostly because of this thread.
In the UK we have an expression - a marmite film - meaning that you are going to either really 'love' it or 'hate' it and I do like watching marmite films. But Bright, I stopped watching after 20 minutes. It almost certainly isnt the worst film of the year but it was pretty terrible.
According to Cinemascore the worst film of 2017 was 'Mother'. It received an 'F' - the lowest score you can get and the first film to receive an 'F' since 2012. Mother is definitely a marmite film - I loved it.

Still, honestly speaking, I think this whole Sony/Fuji feud is pretty silly. Reading this thread you would think that both companies had just introduced virtually unusable cameras when, in fact, both companies are pushing the boundaries of features for a hybrid and especially the features at the given price point. 6 months ago, few would have imagined we would get these hybrids at this price point.

Tried it myself.
It didn't end well.
 

It was just okay for me... think Contact (1997) meets Invasion of the body snatchers (1978)
Ex-machina was a thousand times better...