mkabi

And, I've said this before in another thread (changed for the above argument):
Here is the problem with that argument, and many people have made that same argument.... in one version or another.
So you are are saying Canon has "done their market research, they will know what their customers are doing" and the end product of all that research is to exclude 24p
The problem with that statement is that companies like Sony, Panasonic, Fuji, Blackmagic also have market research teams and pros telling them what the people want.... why is it that they include 24p???
See the thing is.... Sony, Panasonic, Fuji, Blackmagic, etc. are not even number 1 in this segment.... so that doesn't mean that they don't know what they are doing or don't know how to be number 1, its more along the lines that they should be more hungry to be number 1 and they will do anything to get to number 1, hence they will include 24p.

Yes I meant XT-3. One of the issues I'm having with the Z6 is that so much of my work ends up on a 2048x858 Theater Screen at 24 fps. I'm a Theater Manager in Massachusetts and that is the format that we display our preshow and some mini documentaries which is the majority of the content that I create. So currently I'm shooting 4K on my Z6 and have to change the format from 23.967 to 24 for everything I do. Small issue for most people, but annoying for me because I have to do it constantly. (Side note: people defending Canon for leaving it out of their new body, I can never even consider using that camera because of the lack of 23.967.) 

So the XT-3's internal 2048x1080 24p and good audio is very appealing for my weekly work needs. We'll see how it performs after some testing on my end.
My main worry is the battery life on the camera. Hated the A7rII's battery and how often that was an issue with it. Thankfully the XT-3 you can power through the USB-C port, so I'm hoping it will be less of an issue. Have 4 paid shoots on top of work related material that I need to shoot in the next two weeks, so I can really see if it fits into my workflow. Really it's about being able to do my job and shoot fast, getting the coverage I need and deliver. Camera brand should be secondary to that, otherwise it is just playing favorites. I would be looking into the panasonics as well, but m43 sensor is to small for my liking (will be using this camera for stills as well) and the new full frame bodies are huge and the glass is lethally expensive on them. 

And, I've said this before in another thread (changed for the above argument):
Here is the problem with that argument, and many people have made that same argument.... in one version or another.
So you are are saying Canon has "done their market research, they will know what their customers are doing" and the end product of all that research is to exclude 24p
The problem with that statement is that companies like Sony, Panasonic, Fuji, Blackmagic also have market research teams and pros telling them what the people want.... why is it that they include 24p???
See the thing is.... Sony, Panasonic, Fuji, Blackmagic, etc. are not even number 1 in this segment.... so that doesn't mean that they don't know what they are doing or don't know how to be number 1, its more along the lines that they should be more hungry to be number 1 and they will do anything to get to number 1, hence they will include 24p.

Regardless, this does not exactly play in their favor. Sony chipsets and other chipsets in the market are able to do in 1 chip what Canon's do in 3. Either way, they're behind.
It costs them $0 to include it. The feature was always there for 10 years now, and it was always part of their OS. This was a clear move to push people to buy more expensive models. They aggressively segmentize and they've done so in the past (I will explain below). And that would work if they were a monopoly. But they have competitors that include more than just 24p in their cheaper cameras, they also have zebras, log etc. So why go with Canon then? Only Canon thinks that Canon users will stay with Canon no matter what. Little did they know, their EF lenses are getting adapted well to other systems as well.
So, for a little history lesson. As a few people mentioned above, I indeed used to run a video-related blog back in the day. My little niche was "filmmaking on the very cheap". Basically, back then there wasn't much processing power to do 1080/30p on P&S digicams, manufacturers were often forced to use 24p (just because it was easier to encode). So Canon had a line of P&S cameras with 1080/24p at 36 Mbps. There were no manual controls, but there was exposure compensation & exposure lock. Which was enough to create artsy videos or short films on the super-cheap that looked rather professional -- if you were careful of how you were shooting with them. Add on top the ability to get a rather flat look to widen the DR (there were sharpness/contrast/sat controls), and it was a pretty sweet deal for cameras costing $150-$300.
So for a couple of years, we had a number of P&S cams from Canon specifically that could be seen as alternatives to their 5D MkII, T2i, and 7D of that time (at least for people who couldn't afford these cameras and their lenses). I even shot a couple of music videos with such cams (we were not allowed to use my 5D MkII in the Santa Cruz Boardwalk to shoot a music video, but when I showed to the guards the tiny Canon SX30 HS P&S cam, they had no problem -- so they were really good guerrilla cams). The magic feature here was the exposure lock, that made those videos look pro.
Fast forward to 2012. New Canon P&S line up announced across the board. And each one of these had exposure lock in video mode REMOVED (AEL for photos was still there). And in some other models, they removed exposure compensation as well (again, these features had been there for years at that point in video mode). They had to remove these because they couldn't remove 24p outright (simply because their processors were not fast enough yet to do 30p at 1080p, they were stuck with it). They probably saw that some people who could not afford dSLRs used these small cams as a cheap replacement for filmmaking, and they wanted to push these same people to upgrade. The thing is though, if these people had the money to buy a dSLR, they would have done so anyway.
So, since then, I have a love-hate relationship with Canon. But their recent removal of 24p from a rather high end super-35 camera (the M6 MkII is not as low end as say, the M100) is unforgivable, sorry. Just because that's the EF-M line, should not make it a useless line for filmmaking. Some of us, want such cameras simply because they are small. The EOS R is much larger in comparison (and expensive when you account for native lenses).
So yeah, what Canon is doing now, they've done before. It's part of their MO. And if it's true that they are upscaling 2.8k to 4k and lying about it, then they are really unforgivable. I have lost all the respect I had for that company all these years ago.

From the OP link, "How can Canon ignore such a large amount of interest from filmmakers in smaller, affordable, 4K shooting cameras?"
I first became aware of 4K video back in 2010 while attending Canon's gear Expo at the Javits Center in NYC...it was my first time seeing 4K camera prototypes, first time seeing 4K monitors outputting 4K footage, first time seeing 4K sensors on display. I was immediately blown away by the clarity and detail possible at that resolution and I was convinced on-the-spot that Canon was clearly the brand to "hitch my wagon to" going forward.
I had been shooting my 7D and 5D Mark II for both stills and video up to that point and I was feeling a bit cocky that I had chosen wisely "going with Canon" leading into that expo. I thought, "Ooh boy, I can't wait for their 5D Mark III and Canon 7D Mark II, whenever they get announced! I've got to get my hands on some 4K gear, pronto!" And with the arrival of the 4K-capable 1Dc in late 2013, I was eagerly anticipating my "impending good fortunes soon-to-come"! Ahahahah!
The 2012 no-4K announcement for the 5D3 was a true "WTF?" moments for me, as was the 2014 7D2 announcement. "Really Canon?! What's the hold up?!" I was dismayed. Plans were dashed, my future shooting goals, postponed seemingly indefinitely, I was not a happy camper. Who, if anyone, was going to bring 4K DSLR-style camera gear to the masses?
The subsequent arrivals of the 4K-capable GH4, FZ1000 and the Sony Alpha lines began to offer a glimmer of hope for me and my "4K Canon master plan", "surely they'll come through now!". But, as we all know now, I was "hoping against all hopes". "What a shame and disappointment, Canon." I thought...and still do.
I began to jump ship from Canon with the FZ1000...and it was a revelation in "what the competition was up to"...sensible menus, fabulous in-the-field ergonomics, great video output quality (for me, at the time). I opened myself up to see what other manufacturers were offering and soon ended up with a Sony a6300 and a7SII...not as user-friendly as the Panasonic and more than a few-notches-below on image stabilization and rolling shutter, but usable, not a fan of their color vs Canon and Panasonic.
In the past year+ I've been a razor-thin phone call away from grabbing either a GH5 or GH5S after getting some 2017 PhotoPlus Expo hands-on time with Panasonic's G9/100-400mm combo...now here was Image Stabilization realized! A small piece of kit that can effectively do what my Canon/Sony FF camera + Sigma 300-800mm lens can do, but handheld with IS?! I was absolutely floored and that kit was under the holiday tree for my sweetie two months later!
I'm onto the S1, now...as I roll my fingers daily still waiting for that mythical V-Log upgrade to make that long boat trip to North America...thank goodness for Cine-D to sort-of hold me over in the meantime.
And, "whither goes Canon?" I know not and, truthfully, do not truly care any more. And I do not write this with malice or from "sour grapes", it's just that they are no longer innovators and pioneers in my eyes. Based on what I saw and experienced back at that 2010 expo, Canon could have and should have owned the 4K DSLR/M market today...how they managed to "snatch defeat from the jaws of victory" is beyond me. Haw! And should they ever decide to produce a DSLR/DSLM camera worthy of my attention and shooting needs and desires, I'll surely give it a look-see. But, to the OP's question, yeah, they lost me as a customer a while ago.

Reusing this picture. Thanks.

I was being sarcastic and irreverent! I DO believe Cannon has executives that are completely BLIND to what is happening in the industry today. They are leaning heavily on their logo's historic reputation right now. I dont think they truly know that their logo's gas is running out! Cannon is turning into a dinosaur right under their own noses!
I think that Cannon is doing exactly what BlackBerry did that caused their great fall.
Arrogant....absolutely arrogant in every way. They will look back at themselves 5 years from now and clearly see how their own attitude ruined them.

Bah... who cares... I’m not an investor...
Im a consumer... and I don’t see Canon producing anything of interest to me to anymore. Period.

There are so many options for decent 4k & video features these days (at an unbeatable price point) that I'm no longer hoping for Canon to satisfy my requirements. The party is somewhere else now and boy is it raging! 
I'll always remember Canon fondly. The 5d II was my first proper camera and then the 5D III. Only reason I've still kept hold of it - Great stills, and great video (But only with Magic Lantern).  However I shall be selling it soon to raise money for more gear  

Bah... who cares... I’m not an investor...
Im a consumer... and I don’t see Canon producing anything of interest to me to anymore. Period.

Bah... who cares... I’m not an investor...
Im a consumer... and I don’t see Canon producing anything of interest to me to anymore. Period.

I'm just going to provide my write up here.
My shoot went from "What the fuck!?!?!?" to "Fuck it! I'm done, I don't care anymore..."
I was excited about the contest and thought, I hit gold when I got the winning bid on ebay (see pictures) - cause it was mft sensor, had 4K and it was under $200.
The lenses, I borrowed from friends and family, same with adapter.
While I was waiting for the camera to come through mail, I started scouting locations and pre-planning shots, and coming up with a mini-story in my head.
When the camera arrived, I had a solid 1.5 weeks to film and edit - I said perfect....
Thats when work (my real job) started getting busy and I was forced to take work home to complete the overloaded workload. Even then, I said... no problem.... I will just film during lunch hour, but everyday that week it was raining, and my co-worker who was willing to be the main subject of my video - he got busy and started working from home.
One production delay after another...
Now, the actual camera... I didn't know its flaws until after I purchased it, I should have looked at the reviews before even looking at this camera as a contender.... Its only 4K @ 30p no 24p, and there is zero aperture control while in video mode - so had to shoot wide open on the canon lens (and use variable ND adapter). There is no log, just 5 picture profiles, but I'm sure most here were facing that problem (if it is even a problem) - I just used standard profile. It had this flickering (modulating ISO, even when it wasn't AUTO) issue , but I figured out a work around (select Auto and then select HDR mode and call it a day). 
So, camera flaws plus production delays - then I see this shit:
So, I got Used Yi camera without lens for $175, just to find out I could have waited to get a brand-new one with lens for $150.
A day before the competition was supposed to end, I said "Fuck it" came across a parked old school taxi - filmed it for about 30 to 45 min. and editted it for another 45 min. 
Oh, by the way, did I tell you guys about how my macbook pro's audio jack was fucking up too... it was interfering with the audio speakers as well. So, I went over to my older editing computer which is still running FCP7 and some old version of Premiere.
The only thing creative I did was add "Taxi" theme song to the track... lol... I didn't even color correct it, thats SOOC.
 

Here is the problem with that argument, and many people have made that same argument.... in one version or another.
So you are are saying Canon has this "extensive market research [team] and have a large number of pros come with input" and the end product of all that is something like the EOS R or the EOS RP....
The problem with that statement is that companies like Sony, Panasonic, Fuji, Blackmagic also have extensive market research teams and pros telling them what the people want.... why is it that they are able to turn out stuff like the a7III, S1/S1H, XT3, P6K???
 
 
 

If we are using anecdotal evidence here... I went to Center Island (here in Toronto) about 2 weeks ago... and I saw zero Canon or Nikon, but I did see 2 Sony a7 cameras and 1 olympus... about 1 month ago when I visited Niagara Falls, Ontario with the family.... I saw 2 Canons, 1 Nikon and 1 Fuji.... with those kind of evidences, I predict that given that these are high traffic tourist areas, people are dumping their Canons/Nikons/Fujis for Sonys and olympus camera within a 2 week period.

Just don’t buy their crap cameras if video specs are important to you. Moving on. 

Yeah wow, great move, much smart. How dumb are Sony, Panasonic, Fujifilm & Nikon, eh?! WHAHAHA
Oh, c'mon. Just stop the bullcrap excuses. 'The omiting thing is a tradition. It’s a habit.' Well, yup. In the sense that it's Canon being Canon.
Canon be like: lol, we be crippling them cameras like there's no tomorrow...

... and they still fucking buy 'em! OMFG! xD
The enablers are to blame here. I'd be gloating too... it's like taking candy from a baby and them not minding getting spit in the face.

I'm just going to provide my write up here.
My shoot went from "What the fuck!?!?!?" to "Fuck it! I'm done, I don't care anymore..."
I was excited about the contest and thought, I hit gold when I got the winning bid on ebay (see pictures) - cause it was mft sensor, had 4K and it was under $200.
The lenses, I borrowed from friends and family, same with adapter.
While I was waiting for the camera to come through mail, I started scouting locations and pre-planning shots, and coming up with a mini-story in my head.
When the camera arrived, I had a solid 1.5 weeks to film and edit - I said perfect....
Thats when work (my real job) started getting busy and I was forced to take work home to complete the overloaded workload. Even then, I said... no problem.... I will just film during lunch hour, but everyday that week it was raining, and my co-worker who was willing to be the main subject of my video - he got busy and started working from home.
One production delay after another...
Now, the actual camera... I didn't know its flaws until after I purchased it, I should have looked at the reviews before even looking at this camera as a contender.... Its only 4K @ 30p no 24p, and there is zero aperture control while in video mode - so had to shoot wide open on the canon lens (and use variable ND adapter). There is no log, just 5 picture profiles, but I'm sure most here were facing that problem (if it is even a problem) - I just used standard profile. It had this flickering (modulating ISO, even when it wasn't AUTO) issue , but I figured out a work around (select Auto and then select HDR mode and call it a day). 
So, camera flaws plus production delays - then I see this shit:
So, I got Used Yi camera without lens for $175, just to find out I could have waited to get a brand-new one with lens for $150.
A day before the competition was supposed to end, I said "Fuck it" came across a parked old school taxi - filmed it for about 30 to 45 min. and editted it for another 45 min. 
Oh, by the way, did I tell you guys about how my macbook pro's audio jack was fucking up too... it was interfering with the audio speakers as well. So, I went over to my older editing computer which is still running FCP7 and some old version of Premiere.
The only thing creative I did was add "Taxi" theme song to the track... lol... I didn't even color correct it, thats SOOC.
 

I'm just going to provide my write up here.
My shoot went from "What the fuck!?!?!?" to "Fuck it! I'm done, I don't care anymore..."
I was excited about the contest and thought, I hit gold when I got the winning bid on ebay (see pictures) - cause it was mft sensor, had 4K and it was under $200.
The lenses, I borrowed from friends and family, same with adapter.
While I was waiting for the camera to come through mail, I started scouting locations and pre-planning shots, and coming up with a mini-story in my head.
When the camera arrived, I had a solid 1.5 weeks to film and edit - I said perfect....
Thats when work (my real job) started getting busy and I was forced to take work home to complete the overloaded workload. Even then, I said... no problem.... I will just film during lunch hour, but everyday that week it was raining, and my co-worker who was willing to be the main subject of my video - he got busy and started working from home.
One production delay after another...
Now, the actual camera... I didn't know its flaws until after I purchased it, I should have looked at the reviews before even looking at this camera as a contender.... Its only 4K @ 30p no 24p, and there is zero aperture control while in video mode - so had to shoot wide open on the canon lens (and use variable ND adapter). There is no log, just 5 picture profiles, but I'm sure most here were facing that problem (if it is even a problem) - I just used standard profile. It had this flickering (modulating ISO, even when it wasn't AUTO) issue , but I figured out a work around (select Auto and then select HDR mode and call it a day). 
So, camera flaws plus production delays - then I see this shit:
So, I got Used Yi camera without lens for $175, just to find out I could have waited to get a brand-new one with lens for $150.
A day before the competition was supposed to end, I said "Fuck it" came across a parked old school taxi - filmed it for about 30 to 45 min. and editted it for another 45 min. 
Oh, by the way, did I tell you guys about how my macbook pro's audio jack was fucking up too... it was interfering with the audio speakers as well. So, I went over to my older editing computer which is still running FCP7 and some old version of Premiere.
The only thing creative I did was add "Taxi" theme song to the track... lol... I didn't even color correct it, thats SOOC.
 

I'm just going to provide my write up here.
My shoot went from "What the fuck!?!?!?" to "Fuck it! I'm done, I don't care anymore..."
I was excited about the contest and thought, I hit gold when I got the winning bid on ebay (see pictures) - cause it was mft sensor, had 4K and it was under $200.
The lenses, I borrowed from friends and family, same with adapter.
While I was waiting for the camera to come through mail, I started scouting locations and pre-planning shots, and coming up with a mini-story in my head.
When the camera arrived, I had a solid 1.5 weeks to film and edit - I said perfect....
Thats when work (my real job) started getting busy and I was forced to take work home to complete the overloaded workload. Even then, I said... no problem.... I will just film during lunch hour, but everyday that week it was raining, and my co-worker who was willing to be the main subject of my video - he got busy and started working from home.
One production delay after another...
Now, the actual camera... I didn't know its flaws until after I purchased it, I should have looked at the reviews before even looking at this camera as a contender.... Its only 4K @ 30p no 24p, and there is zero aperture control while in video mode - so had to shoot wide open on the canon lens (and use variable ND adapter). There is no log, just 5 picture profiles, but I'm sure most here were facing that problem (if it is even a problem) - I just used standard profile. It had this flickering (modulating ISO, even when it wasn't AUTO) issue , but I figured out a work around (select Auto and then select HDR mode and call it a day). 
So, camera flaws plus production delays - then I see this shit:
So, I got Used Yi camera without lens for $175, just to find out I could have waited to get a brand-new one with lens for $150.
A day before the competition was supposed to end, I said "Fuck it" came across a parked old school taxi - filmed it for about 30 to 45 min. and editted it for another 45 min. 
Oh, by the way, did I tell you guys about how my macbook pro's audio jack was fucking up too... it was interfering with the audio speakers as well. So, I went over to my older editing computer which is still running FCP7 and some old version of Premiere.
The only thing creative I did was add "Taxi" theme song to the track... lol... I didn't even color correct it, thats SOOC.
 

I'm just going to provide my write up here.
My shoot went from "What the fuck!?!?!?" to "Fuck it! I'm done, I don't care anymore..."
I was excited about the contest and thought, I hit gold when I got the winning bid on ebay (see pictures) - cause it was mft sensor, had 4K and it was under $200.
The lenses, I borrowed from friends and family, same with adapter.
While I was waiting for the camera to come through mail, I started scouting locations and pre-planning shots, and coming up with a mini-story in my head.
When the camera arrived, I had a solid 1.5 weeks to film and edit - I said perfect....
Thats when work (my real job) started getting busy and I was forced to take work home to complete the overloaded workload. Even then, I said... no problem.... I will just film during lunch hour, but everyday that week it was raining, and my co-worker who was willing to be the main subject of my video - he got busy and started working from home.
One production delay after another...
Now, the actual camera... I didn't know its flaws until after I purchased it, I should have looked at the reviews before even looking at this camera as a contender.... Its only 4K @ 30p no 24p, and there is zero aperture control while in video mode - so had to shoot wide open on the canon lens (and use variable ND adapter). There is no log, just 5 picture profiles, but I'm sure most here were facing that problem (if it is even a problem) - I just used standard profile. It had this flickering (modulating ISO, even when it wasn't AUTO) issue , but I figured out a work around (select Auto and then select HDR mode and call it a day). 
So, camera flaws plus production delays - then I see this shit:
So, I got Used Yi camera without lens for $175, just to find out I could have waited to get a brand-new one with lens for $150.
A day before the competition was supposed to end, I said "Fuck it" came across a parked old school taxi - filmed it for about 30 to 45 min. and editted it for another 45 min. 
Oh, by the way, did I tell you guys about how my macbook pro's audio jack was fucking up too... it was interfering with the audio speakers as well. So, I went over to my older editing computer which is still running FCP7 and some old version of Premiere.
The only thing creative I did was add "Taxi" theme song to the track... lol... I didn't even color correct it, thats SOOC.
 

Guys give it a break and write a film ffs!

I watched The Godfather (again) recently. This film probably has as much detail as a poor 720p camera. The highlights are often blown out and it looks like the dynamic range of that film is no more than 6-8 stops. It is yellow as fuck.
And still, it's a beautiful movie. And almost everyone agrees.
I realised that, including for myself, this obsession with gear, pixel peeping and resolution is a race to the creative bottom.

Just go do it... you’ll have fun!

That would be a mistake. The market for stills is excellent as it is. You have megapixels, you have speed, great AF for cheap. Video is the battlefield.

You know what's really sad... It's not the Canon brand itself it's the little people in this forum (some of other forums) and especially Canon rumors....
People kept saying Canon is doomed...
To most respect, they aren't... although, it's blatantly obvious that they may be... But they are not... Cause they are just positioning themselves to just plain move out of the segment altogether. 
Which, would make their gear relatively like the NX1... Samsung isn’t doomed, but those that believed in them... are left stranded. If you are reading this... and you are reading this now... start jumping ship!!!

Wow! I missed that completely back then, but I shot quite a lot of projects with the VG series of cameras. I hated them, they were ergonomical nightmares, but very interesting concepts at the time.
Still believe that the best ergonomics for a small but capable video camera would be based on a Canon XC10/15. You can add a shoulder pad on almost anything these days.