Geoff CB

Hallo friends,
As a S1 owner I am longing for the awesome features of a S1H. This forum doesnt help it otherwise.:) So I keep browsing the bay for used cameras to show up for attractive prices. This week three auctions turned up, two for S1H, one for S1, all of them with different locations in Italy. None of my questions regarding payment procedure and shipping were answered. Two of them have feedback as buyers only, none as sellers, one of them only a very few as seller with all of them over one year old.
All three of them have reused and stolen text and photos from three other original auctions from the US. I checked that, because I was suspicious of the supposely great deals and sofore I used ebays function of showing past auctions.
So watch out a little bit in search for a good deal and of course happy bidding with valid auctions. Most of them are legit but some of them might not be.
 
Edit: One of the S1H auctions is still running til tomorrow. So, evaluate the points above.

It cannot 😪
Bummer considering the AF is whack.
Stills focus seems usable tho

You could literally post a frame from R5 or Arri Alexa, say it's a Sony A7siii frame and someone would say the color isnt that good and that something is wrong with the skin tones.

Those look great! Awesome setting.


Some from me, these are all Prores 422 LT

Those look great! Awesome setting.


Some from me, these are all Prores 422 LT

There's a thread over on DVXuser: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?356042-The-Hunt-(F3-still-delivering-the-goods)

Those look great! Awesome setting.


Some from me, these are all Prores 422 LT

Those look great! Awesome setting.


Some from me, these are all Prores 422 LT

In the photography stills world nobody talks about color science. Nobody says Panasonics jpegs are better than Canon or Sonys. That is because people are shooting 12/14 bit raws and you get to choose exactly what colors you want. I sort of feel in a 10 bit world straight out of camera colors are simply less important because you get so much more leeway to create the colors that you desire.
Of course there will be always be people who like to shoot jpegs or straight out of camera video but then you dont really need 10 bit at all.

I think that just looking to an already graded jpeg export is not going to reveal it.
I was talking about my experience grading the files. 
There are much more color information in shadows and highlights.
The guy with his bike in the air was really underexposed and I was able to push it up without looking mushy or like an alien.
Scrubbing through those files into the timeline are really close to prores.
I really had problems with banding and compression artifacts with the older Sony's. Don't see it on those files.
I believe that in the hands of a good colorist it might bee amazing.
And also with your tweeks in the color profiles we could achieve much better results.
 

I am a stranger to the Sony system (last cameras were Fujis, Nikon Z6 and Pana S1), but not to the "colour war" as we can't watch YouTube or browse forum without being drowned into it. Anyway, I like to remember that the last season of  "A Skier's Journey" serie was shot years ago on an A7S ii. I believe the makers are really talented story tellers and know what to do with an image. The serie was highly praised and, honestly, concerning, colours, hm...
As I am contemplating the new A7S iii for these type of content (+ real time northern lights), this is just a remembering...
 

Just downloaded the footage from that James Matthews video.
Great footage by the way.

The A7s iii is now a contender angainst other low priced cinema cameras.
All the information you need to create a good color grading is there. 
Rich colors, shadow and highlight information. 
All packed inside a usable codec that is the h264 all-i 10bit.

All the problems I had before with sony mirrorles footage are gone. Noise compression, banding, poor colors, artifacts, etc.
I aways thought a good codec could turn these Sonys into something else, and here it is.
Personaly I really liked the colors.

Some grabs from a futur project, it was very hot outside, nearly 40°C outside for about 3 hours but no problem with the camera !

Even without VLOG, I'm loving this camera and floored by the colors and dynamic range. Here are a couple screengrabs from a shoot I was on yesterday, using the HLG profile. I'm very, very excited to get my hands on the log upgrade. I think this is the first time I've ever had a video camera where I'm actually choosing the DR I want scene-to-scene at my discretion, rather than being forced to deal with limitations of the camera. There's plenty of room in the shadows and highlight roll-off is silky smooth. Color me impressed. 
 

I think it will depend on the profit margins for those products. If they keep reusing sensors and tech across bodies and manage to keep the margins high enough they could be profitable given enough volume.  Canon and Nikon's strategy has typically been to flood the market with 'starter' cameras (Rebel series) then if the customer started getting serious about photography get them to move up to a more professional line (7D, 5D, 1D).  The problem is the world is moving past photography and into video and as it does, neither Canon or Nikon adjusted as fast as Sony did. Sony saw a gap in their lineup and went for it. 
 
And apparently it is working for them....at least for now. This is why I say Sony is Canon's biggest problem. Also, even though people downplayed the news that Sony inked a deal with AP News, I think it is a big deal because it shows Sony is very aggressive and finding new ways to move upmarket vs trying to sell in volume at the retailers to buyers who would prefer their smartphones whereas it seems like Canon and Nikon are trying to survive by continuing to do more of the same.
 
https://sonymirrorlesspro.com/sonys-camera-division-is-profitable/#:~:text=Sony%27s%202018%20fiscal%20year%20(2018FY,loss%20due%20to%20currency%20conversion.

Gerald Undone has done it again, incredible review of the R5 and R6. I am also so glad someone finally pointed out that you cannot do backup recording with either camera and that record limits in 2020 are stupid...so many people seem to not care about those things. He also reached the same conclusions that I reached......they aren't true hybrid cameras without an external monitor.
 
A surprising finding though was that the DR isn't any better than my 6yr old 5DIV.
 
https://youtu.be/qDXPiu3wpBs
 

Who puts test charts in their movie?
It's designed to show the malleability of information at low IRE values, which is useful data.

I’m going to buy a Komodo.
So I can come on here and tell the amateur hybrid camera video makers all about my thick colour, GS (yes! yes! YES!) and other juicy comments designed to reinforce my self built pedestal...
Or I might remain perfectly happy with my A7Siii at -30 degrees, iso 51k at midnight filming the Aurora in Sony thin colour whilst keeping my fingers warm by sticking them into the sensor (thereby ruining the final vestiges of what was terrible IBIS anyway). 

Choices. Choices. 

Just for fun, I took the side-by-side video clip from both cameras and did a little tweaking to get them a bit closer to each other. (See below)
There's some truth to Canon's ability to produce a more pleasing look right out of camera but both cameras can certainly be adjusted to match. I have used Andrew's Pro Color adjustments in the A7III to produce "Canon Color" directly out of the camera by tweaking settings in-camera. That is one feature of Sony cameras that are often overlooked. You can tweak profiles to the nth degree. In current Sony mirrorless cameras however you can only do so much tweaking due to dynamic range limitations and 8-bit codecs.
Where the differences typically exist between these consumer cameras and production cinema cameras boils down to dynamic range and how many stops of light you have available in the highlights and shadows.
I am quite confident that the new A7SIII can be tweaked in-camera to produce many different "looks" straight out of camera and with better dynamic range and a 10-bit codec.

Nailed it.

We have already seen some AB tests of the a7s and R6. The colours aren't THAT different. I think you're all kidding yourselves when you say it has a colour problem. I am unbiased as I don't own or intend to  own either cams or anything like them.  If you're not seeing good colour from a7s videos then it is the fault of the colour grader. And  "thick colour" is the same nonsense as what photographers call "3d pop".  You're just reaching for terminology to reinforce/shill your idea. It's possible to see thick colour as you're grading a file but not just based off seeing the final product. 

Yeah that's just pretty retarded, but obviously nobody in their right mind would actually spend 1k plus just for custom body color on a $6k cameras. And apparently everyone hates Sony ergonomic in this forum, but have y'all actually tried out the newer thicker a7r4 body? It really does feel pretty nice, I would say on par with the z6 or eos r. Obviously not as thick as the s1 but it's up there.

I'm happily using my A7III for paid work and so are many others... so, I guess? I sold an M43 lens to someone that ranted away at how trash the Sonys were and how they fell apart on him after a year... Mine looks more or less the same as the day I bought it, and all the buttons still work fine. I don't love the A7III but I love it for its price point and capabilities when it was released. It has many flaws and things that I don't like, but the old school of "it's not metal and hard therefore trash and will fall apart" is... old school.
The materials aren't "really cheap", I don't do handheld so how it feels doesn't matter as much, but there's nothing wrong with how the A7III feels, the menus aren't great but they're fine, I set up the custom menu and I can scroll... 
Why do you think people use BMPCC 4K? For it's useability on a gimbal? for the tilting screen and long battery life, as well as external ssd and no af-c? It's for the IQ and price...  So yeah, lots of people will put up with whatever you apparently "can't" put up with. I can't deal with no AF-C but I don't tell other people they need it and then ask them why they don't...

Just closing the loop.  Threads on a forum aren't a discussion between people in a room, they're a public panel discussion where the people posting are on stage and countless people are silent in the audience unseen.  When it got personal that would have been noticed.
Yes,  Global Shutter does not produce a jittery image.  It doesn't stabilise camera movement from the operator, but it doesn't create jitter either.  We got our wires crossed on that one.
I think it's about different types of shooting.  Some people choose to shoot hand-held and other people have no option.
For example, if you want to get a shot of this famous historical building in Japan:

You must first walk through the inspection station and past this sign:

and then get the shot in this situation:

If it was up to me, I'd just have a shoulder-rig and a tripod and elbow everyone else out of the way.  But that's not reality, so I play the hand I was dealt.
Plus, look at how everyone is dressed.  Photos don't tell the story, but my hands were shaking because it was freeeeeeeeeeezing!  
and it's about what you prefer aesthetically as well.  I've noticed that lots of cinematographers don't mind hand-shake, but it's objectionable to me.
When I'm watching footage I'm guided by the camera movement.  So much of film-making is intentioned.  What I hear when the camera is moving around a lot is the cinematographer saying to me "look over here, oh wait hang on look here instead, no, over here again, oops someone bumped me, gee it's cold here, can we end this take now please?".  The saying is that camera movement should be motivated, but I think the saying should be interpreted to be "camera movement is controlling the perception of the viewer" and I don't particularly like having my perception moving around like that, as if I'm drunk or on drugs or have ADHD etc.  I guess it's art, and art is in the eye of the beholder.  
I suspect that cinematographers who like hand-held movement don't see what I see.
If I could get away from shooting hand-held then I would, but it's not always an option.  IBIS is a counter-measure, not a solution.  I'd prefer to not need it too.
What do you mean by "last gen lens"?  Do you mean OIS?  If so, yes, some OIS can be excellent.
I agree that rolling shutter jello can be hard to fix, stabilisation seems to be common in NLEs but RS compensation (either as part of stabilisation or just RS of movement in the frame) isn't, and even then, it's putting a band-aid on a wound you're better off not having in your footage in the first place.

I think you are missing the point that myself and kye are making.....IBIS can smooth out some of the natural shakiness that comes from hand holding footage; GS cannot, just because it is a GS does not mean it can smooth out shakiness it just means that it won't be wavy when it occurs. So my point is, would I prefer nice straight lines as the camera shakes (GS), or would I prefer to eliminate the shakiness altogether (IBIS).
To further extrapolate that comparison; if I had to pick between a camera that could eliminate a lot of shakiness at the expense of wavy lines in some situations (rolling shutter) vs. one that does nothing to eliminate shakiness but has nice straight lines when making quick camera movements; I'm going to pick eliminating the shakiness (IBIS).  Just because a GS can handle fast camera movements better than a RS doesn't mean it does anything for shakiness; to me shakiness is far more perceptible to non videographers than rolling shutter distortion.
 
And yes, I am aware that after a certain level of shakiness IBIS can no longer compensate, so for the purposes of these examples I am referring to those instances where the level of shakiness is within the operating parameters of the IBIS system. Of course a GS with IBIS would be the best of both worlds but if I had to pick I'd pick IBIS over GS.