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The new Sony FS5


Antonis

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Curious - just looked at the launch videos.  I like to be constructive, but those launch videos were absolutely terrible. They sold me on the form factor, but not the image. The grading in particular

There is only one single feature that imo makes this camera very considerable to the competition.  4K RAW in Future Firmware

Here here! I've always been critical of S-Log when it comes to skin tones, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when all I read is the praise of Sony. They deliver an incredible spec sheet, but I ha

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A big difference between the FS5 and FS7 is that the FS5 shoots on the much cheaper SDXC cards.
You do loose the XAVC-I codec (10bit 422) and 60fps in 4K/UHD.
But "just" 8bit 420 in 4K/UHD (8bit 422 through HDMI) and supersampled 10bit 422 HD should still give you all the crispy images you need.

I recon it's a great light and compact camera for documentaires and action sports.

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Curious - just looked at the launch videos. 

I like to be constructive, but those launch videos were absolutely terrible. They sold me on the form factor, but not the image. The grading in particular was like a thrown up fruit salad. 

Yeah, I also thought that the launch video was rather underwhelming. (definitely not as lovely to watch as captain hook's Ursa 4,6k teaser)
But going of prior Sony launch video's and then seeing other peoples work, I am now very curious to see more examples before I make a judgement.




 

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Yeah, I also thought that the launch video was rather underwhelming. (definitely not as lovely to watch as captain hook's Ursa 4,6k teaser)But going of prior Sony launch video's and then seeing other peoples work, I am now very curious to see more examples before I make a judgement.
 

True - best trying it out yourself before judging other peoples work, although that URSA 4.6k aesthetic has something very special about it.

I'm also very surprised at the content they put in these launch videos - surely they can come up with something better? Throw them into real projects for commercial, narrative, music video and documentary instead of filming a bunch of bushes, trees and people doing literally nothing. 

 

 

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Now, that looks like a pretty nifty setup right there, such a compact form factor, yet still all the fancy smancy controls.

Is there any dedicated shoulder attachment for it when it comes out? I could imagine an extention for the handgrip and a little shoulder attachment to really make it a mini FS7. - ok, yeah this might be a thing: http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/product/broadcast-products-camcorders-tripods-supports/vct-sp2bp/overview/

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Now I do like Canon colour, but it's not worth 3 times the price for a C300 MKii over this.

Sony pricing is hammering Canon at the moment... At this rate we will end up 100% Sony within the year from 100% Canon a year before. 

Come on Canon, catch up!

As long as clients demand Canon color, the King's Ransom will be paid.

ARRI easily fetches an Emperor's Ransom.

If Sony could provide something closer to F35/F65 color on these cameras, that might make a difference. Most of Sony's recent promo videos have little skin tones, and even landscape colors can look off.

The FS7 can't even match the C300 in basic color accuracy in this simple test: https://vimeo.com/113558024

While it might be possible to grade the FS7 to look better, it's a lot of work. Time is money.

Another point is ease (and speed) of use during a professional shoot. Canon's are easy and fast, and reliable (not clear if the bugs or complicated slow menus of the FS7/FS5 have been fixed).

 

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Curious - just looked at the launch videos. 

I like to be constructive, but those launch videos were absolutely terrible. They sold me on the form factor, but not the image. The grading in particular was like a thrown up fruit salad. 

Sony's launch videos are always terrible. Even the F5/55 had awful launch videos. In fact, they were so awful, in addition to some testing I saw that I actively avoided both cameras for as long as possible, until I was offered an F5 when I didn't have the budget for RED or Alexa and figured out that it's really a great camera when you put it to use properly.

 

As long as clients demand Canon color, the King's Ransom will be paid.

ARRI easily fetches an Emperor's Ransom.

If Sony could provide something closer to F35/F65 color on these cameras, that might make a difference. Most of Sony's recent promo videos have little skin tones, and even landscape colors can look off.

The FS7 can't even match the C300 in basic color accuracy in this simple test: https://vimeo.com/113558024

While it might be possible to grade the FS7 to look better, it's a lot of work. Time is money.

Another point is ease (and speed) of use during a professional shoot. Canon's are easy and fast, and reliable (not clear if the bugs or complicated slow menus of the FS7/FS5 have been fixed).

 

Clients don't demand Canon colour. I don't know what clients you're working for, but I've never been asked to shoot a TVC but had a Producer tell me that the agency and client want me to shoot Canon for some reason (other than price).

Producers want whatever is going to be the cheapest for them :) Sometimes, they're happy to go Alexa or similar if you can convince them that it's going to be worth it (or it's cinema commercial, or high budget national).

I actually prefer to shoot F5, and prefer the look of the F5, over a C300. Many television shows are now shooting F5 or F55. Sony is slowly but surely gaining ground, especially over Canon. 

You may find it more difficult to grade Sony because you're used to Canon, but professional colourists will take anything you throw at them, and have no issue grading any Sony footage.

Arri can charge what they do because they have the best overall camera, and best sensor design, in the market. And yet, they've still had to diversify and offer smaller and lower cost options to compete with other manufacturers.

This might be EOSHD but unless Canon really pull their finger out, they may be struggling to compete on the video front in a few years time.

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

The C100II is the one in trouble. This FS5 is specifically designed to be a C100. It's almost the EXACT same design. 

The rear tiltable EVF, the Top handle with audio/XLRs, the two SD slots on the back, the ND filters, the the side rotatable and removable handgrip, the buttons on the left side. the weight and size are almost identical too but the C100 is smaller. 

The FS5 has a great image (FS700/FS7/F5 sensor but at 8bit). but over the C100II the added features that will threaten Canon are: 

-The higher dynamic range in LOG mode (14 vs 12) and The broadcast approved HD internal aquisition, an area where the C100 is most sold at but requires a ninja, this will be an internal solution to compete. This is a big one, the HD.

-The slowmotion burst modes (aliased/jaggied/low-res but clients adore it, I've no idea why canon are being so perfectionists when it comes to slowmotion, even the C300II they went with a native 2x crop just to avoid these artefacts in super slo-mo, clients don't care (most)

-The SDI output with future paid (either hardware/software) upgrade for raw 

these three are really all the major added features over the C100II. While the C100 has a major benefit in Dual Pixel AF, Canon lens Mount if you own them, the EVF is higher quality (FS5 is AX100 EVF and C100 is C300 EVF) and swivle LCD placement are nicer leaving the top for XLRs/audio knobs/Microphone holder, Canon LOG colours which clients seem to like, waveform monitor (strangely missing from FS5) and smaller/lighter design (don't worry if you own a C100II, it's an amazing image and design)

I'd go for the FS5 for the light 4K mode and internal broadcast HD and playing with super slo-mo. Most people will, even if it has quirky slow Laggy sony menus and lesser colour science and lack of firmware maturity like waveforms and luts in various modes, these can be gotten used too but the 4K delivery and Internal Broadcast codec and super slowmotion cannot be really worked around. 

 

So Canon now needs to introduce a budget version of the C300II as the C100 was a budget version of the C300, a C100III. Having the same sensor at 15 stops of DR with C-LOG2, 120p, and a 4K 8bit mode + DPAF and all the niceties of the C100II. This is the only way to compete on this important DSLR-Step-Up market. I expect we'll see that camera soon at the first quarter of 2016, a C100 MKIII, it's how Canon works, and yes it will have a stupid omission like only 8bit in HD, and no SDI output. 

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